Just a thought for Republicans that dislike Trump.

[kaz]

Republicans have broken voter turnout records in every state so far. I'm pretty sure that is the result of the Trump phenomenon. I'm also pretty sure a lot of his supporters will disappear with him if he loses the nomination. I know how much a lot of you dislike Trump, but at this point he is probably the best bet for a Republican win.

Republicans have a decades long string of following that strategy by picking the candidate who is the so called most electable rather than the candidate who stands for something. And they've won 2 of 6 elections doing that.

You are just proposing the losing strategy Republicans already keep following unsuccessfully. What's the point in that?

 

[eagle1462010]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

 

[eagle1462010]

W.T.O. Rules Against U.S. On Steel Tariff

The rest of the story...........on the steel..............Europe gets 4 billion off of it in the WTO.

 

[kaz]

If you like Trump, the chances are very good you have an authoritarian personally or strong inclinations thereof
...
The good news is most people are not very authoritarian

So then why are Trump and Hillary leading their parties so far? That indicates people like authoritarianism, they don't dislike it

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

But you have to ask yourself who ultimately pays these tariffs? Yes, that would be us, the US consumer.

 

[eagle1462010]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

But you have to ask yourself who ultimately pays these tariffs? Yes, that would be us, the US consumer.

Of course............it is a consumer tax.................Just like Cruz's VAT tax plan that he says is not a VAT..........but analysis have already called them on it................

Before we had an income tax almost all revenue was via duties collected from Tariffs...............Tariffs are a bargaining tool and why deals were done country to country in the past........in order to negotiate winners and losers for each side...hashing it out 1 on 1............now they are settled in a court room of the WTO where we are ordered to change our laws.................

Foreign entities ORDERING us to CHANGE OUR LAWS...............do you have a problem with that? I most certainly do have a problem with that.

 

[Freewill]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

Thus is why I still say Clinton was our worse President. At least for the working man.

 

[kaz]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

But you have to ask yourself who ultimately pays these tariffs? Yes, that would be us, the US consumer.

That is the basic lie of the left economically. Consumers pay all taxes, businesses pass them on, they don't eat them. It's bizarre how the left grasp that if the cost of steel goes up that's a cost and companies pass it on. Then when you point out that taxes are a cost, they pass it on, the left is like what? That makes no sense

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Why the Trump University Debacle Is All His Low-Income Fan Base Needs to See He Is a Predator
Adam Johnson / AlterNet

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

But you have to ask yourself who ultimately pays these tariffs? Yes, that would be us, the US consumer.

Of course............it is a consumer tax.................Just like Cruz's VAT tax plan that he says is not a VAT..........but analysis have already called them on it................

Before we had an income tax almost all revenue was via duties collected from Tariffs...............Tariffs are a bargaining tool and why deals were done country to country in the past........in order to negotiate winners and losers for each side...hashing it out 1 on 1............now they are settled in a court room of the WTO where we are ordered to change our laws.................

Foreign entities ORDERING us to CHANGE OUR LAWS...............do you have a problem with that? I most certainly do have a problem with that.

Sure I have a problem with that. But you have to play the cards you are dealt.

I would like to institute something that really works; something that wouldn't have a negative impact on our economy. I think we need to be a little bit more isolated than we are. We all want cheap things no matter who or how.

For instance if given the choice, I would rather deal with a company that has American workers on the end of the phone instead of foreigners that I can't understand, or phone systems where you have to push ten different buttons to get to the person you want to discuss an issue with.

I seldom use the customer checkout machines unless all other lines are long and crowded. If you use those machines, you put another American out of work. I also think we need to totally cutoff foreigners coming to this country. That goes for illegal and legal. No work permits, not green cards until we have more Americans working and our wages see a natural increase.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

But you have to ask yourself who ultimately pays these tariffs? Yes, that would be us, the US consumer.

That is the basic lie of the left economically. Consumers pay all taxes, businesses pass them on, they don't eat them. It's bizarre how the left grasp that if the cost of steel goes up that's a cost and companies pass it on. Then when you point out that taxes are a cost, they pass it on, the left is like what? That makes no sense

This is true. People shop at Walmart because you can buy six items for a hundred bucks compared to the mom and pop shop where they would only be able to buy five items.

A passed on tax would have the same effect. Most people are on a budget and will only spend that hundred dollars regardless of what it may buy them.

Higher prices means less items sold. Less items sold means less work for the shelf stocker, less work for the receiving departments, less work for the truck drivers, less work for the office staff.

 

[JoeMoma]

Think about this as part of a dynamic process if you really want to anticipate what will eventually happen.

Right now Trump is going up in polls, and there is no reason to believe he has some fictional cap. People were saying that about Romney in 2012 as well and were proven wrong. Trump isnt polling high as a second choice, but he has been a lot of peoples third or forth choice behind idealistic candidates like Carson and Kasich.

Hillary is dropping in the polls as she shows the world she is a cheating cantankerous old hag, cheating Sanders, lying to authorities about her email and secured document handling and may be indicted just prior to the election. Her poll numbers will continue to drop.

Rubio is a provenliar, and though he has rising numbers, as people become more informed with his track record he will start hemorraging supporters.

Rubio is a loser no matter who yo put up against him. He even makes Hillary look honest.

You are letting your dislike of Rubio cloud your thinking. He isn't my first choice but I can easily see him beating both Democrat candidates handily. It's a fact that lying is almost a positive thing with most democrats and many independants. Obama's reelection proves that. Plus there are a great many voters who vote for stupid reasons like looks, youth, and ethnicity which Rubio has all of. He beats either candidate pretty easily, IMO.

I think you are correct Pred. He would probably win the easiest, which would make the establishment happy as hell since he is absolutely controllable. How much actual change we would get is the big question. If winning the easiest is the number 1 desire of GOP voters, then Rubio is their guy!

I used to care more about conservative credentials, but the death of Scalia has made having a republican make the choice is now the most important factor in this race.

2 more Supremes will more than likely be at stake as well............Scalia just put it front and center instead of a back burner issue...................

That is one of the things that worries me about Trump. What kind of pick will he make?

His sister.

 

[eagle1462010]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

But you have to ask yourself who ultimately pays these tariffs? Yes, that would be us, the US consumer.

That is the basic lie of the left economically. Consumers pay all taxes, businesses pass them on, they don't eat them. It's bizarre how the left grasp that if the cost of steel goes up that's a cost and companies pass it on. Then when you point out that taxes are a cost, they pass it on, the left is like what? That makes no sense

I'm hardly a leftist and every time we get on this issue I am called that...............so be it.............our jobs are leaving...........one aspect is the regulations nightmare and high taxes of this country...........the other is we don't have a level playing field............Since we have higher standards of income, Regulations, and etc......Free Trade Agreements with countries like Mexico and China give them the advantage as they don't play by the same rules...........Many call this Fair Trade.........In regards to Canada.........we have similar laws and regs so the field is level................China has virtually no EPA standards and Regs whatsoever............

Free Trade has cost us MILLIONS of jobs...............so have high taxes and regulations............If you are in favor of Cheap foreign goods at the DESTRUCTION of our industrial base..........then you favor Free Trade.

Perhaps you like the United States being told to change it's laws from a Foreign court as well................

I remember your statements in the past Kaz.............If I were to do work on your electrical I would CHARGE you triple the price for the new age of America................Because back on that thread you took a dump on Blue Collar Workers.........saying oh well if those jobs get hammered.

We can't allow the jobs to go out of country at the levels happening now without destroying the American Worker.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Consumers pay all taxes, businesses pass them on, they don't eat them. It's bizarre how the left grasp that if the cost of steel goes up that's a cost and companies pass it on. Then when you point out that taxes are a cost, they pass it on, the left is like what? That makes no sense

You know what else companies pass on to consumers? Their profit.

Now for some reason some people think that if only companies didn't have to pay taxes, the companies would be so glad to lower their prices and thereby lower their profit. Just to help the consumers.

Then again, some people think republicans make good leaders.

 

[eagle1462010]

Free Trade, Fair Trade: What’s the Difference? | Economy In Crisis

The U.S. is the largest consumer market in the world. Opening our doors to “free trade” agreements has resulted in job losses, enormous trade deficits and the extinction of many valuable U.S. businesses. Our “free trade” practices are harmful and no longer beneficial, but what about fair trade? What are the benefits of fair trade over free trade?

As a result, “free trade” has led to the largest transfer of wealth in the entire world. Trillions of American dollars have been lost due to the absence of tariffs, resulting in the alarming trade deficits we have today. Tariff-free imports are one of the largest downsides to “free trade.” In addition, the absence of tariffs tends to favor the country with lower wage-rates. This results in the lower wage-rate country enjoying a transfer of production benefits from the higher wage-rate country.

 

[eagle1462010]

http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA-at-20.pdf

 Rather than creating the promised hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs, NAFTA has contributed to an enormous new U.S. trade deficit with Mexico and Canada, which had already equated to an estimated net loss of one million U.S. jobs by 2004. This figure, calculated by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI), includes the net balance between jobs created and jobs lost.

 More than 845,000 specific U.S. workers have been certified for Trade Adjustment Assistance (TAA) as having lost their jobs due to imports from Canada and Mexico or the relocation of factories to those countries.7

 NAFTA has contributed to downward pressure on U.S. wages and growth in U.S. income inequality

 According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, two out of every three displaced manufacturing workers who were rehired in 2012 experienced a wage reduction, most of them taking a pay cut of greater than 20 percent.

 As increasing numbers of workers displaced from manufacturing jobs have joined those competing for non-offshorable, low-skill jobs in sectors such as hospitality and food service, real wages have also fallen in these sectors under NAFTA.9

 Soon after NAFTA’s passage, the small pre-NAFTA U.S. trade surplus with Mexico turned into a massive new trade deficit and the pre-NAFTA U.S. trade deficit with Canada expanded greatly. The inflation-adjusted U.S. trade surplus with Mexico of $2.5 billion and the $29.6 billion deficit with Canada in the year before NAFTA have morphed into a combined NAFTA trade deficit of $177 billion.10



Continue reading the negative side of NAFTA and Free Trade ..............Of course you will dismiss the damage..................the TPA or TAA was a big argument in the Congress and Senate a while back, as was currency manipulation.............They were arguing on how much to spend on LOST JOBS as a result of the TPP............because they know up front that it will KILL AMERICAN JOBS...............and they were arguing on ASSISTANCE to displaced workers...................aka more American Jobs going overseas or they wouldn't even be arguing over it.

 

[eagle1462010]

This graph is good news if you consider the graph a down hill ski slope and like skiing..........

 

[kaz]

For instance if given the choice, I would rather deal with a company that has American workers on the end of the phone instead of foreigners that I can't understand, or phone systems where you have to push ten different buttons to get to the person you want to discuss an issue wit

Americans always complain about leg room on planes. I think it was Continental decided to take out a row of seats and a little bit of leg room for a tiny ticket price increase. They got no benefit from it, people just kept picking the cheapest tickets. So they gave up and put the extra row of seats back in to get back the money they were losing from the missing seats.

In the end, it's not what customers "say" they want, it's what they will spend money on. Customers won't pay for Customer Service that they can understand. Though Indians are generally improving with their accents. Maybe you would pay a little more. I'm just saying most people won't. And as long as they don't, companies are actually listening to their customers. People get what they are willing to pay for. And they don't get what they won't, at least not for long

 

[kaz]

These tax plans have been platform issues forever..............promising great New Tax plans and they never happen.........we've had tax cuts in the past and historically they haven't lost the revenues that everyone said would happen. Revenues actually historically went up do to increased investment.......primarily in the Markets and not on main street.

It is possible that once Inversion is ended........it will not all go to creation of jobs......and it is possible that the Lion's share of the money would go to the casino of Wall Street.

Bottom line for me.............I want a simplified code..........that maintains revenue...........that causes job growth..............and stops the companies from hauling ass............

I have no problem at all with ending the Free Trade Horse Hockey plans.............and negotiating on a 1 on 1 between countries to hammer out the losses in the Trade balances where we are getting hammered......If that means Tariffs.............then so be it..............It worked before someone said it was broken, and will work again..........as a matter of fact..........before the creation of the IRS it was the primary means of Federal Revenue for this country.

When imported steel started to be a problem under Bush, he instituted a tariff. Our trading partners in return put a tariff on our goods being shipped there, so it was a wash and Bush had to back down.

Tariffs don't solve anything. I think what might help is if we Americans were more supportive of our own workers. Let's face it, do any of us look on the packaging of our goods to see where it was made? I don't, and I'm willing to bet that you don't either

Recently Obama signed getting rid of Country of Origin Labeling after we lost in a WTO Court against Mexico and Canada..............After losing the Court allowed Tariffs for compensation to Mexico and Canada. So if we do as you say they will file suit against us again and then order us to change our laws again. As we get hit with tariffs again by the World Court.

Under these free trade agreements, the World tells us how to trade and in this case tells us to change our laws. I have a serious problem with that. If they want to do business here they must obey our laws. Just as we must obey their laws when doing business there.

You talk about the steel..........but cases were filed in the WTO and Bush didn't counter their tariffs after they countered ours...........we could quota their asses and hurt them economically if we are negotiating with them to try and reverse our Trade deficits................and one example doesn't make all of them wrong anyway........

In auto manufacturing, Tariffs in the past caused foreign investment here to avoid them...........I'm not talking Detroit but the South in companies like Nissan and Toyota.

It is a give an take deal to get the best Trade position possible to prevent all the jobs from hauling ass............worked for 200 plus years until someone said it was broken.

But you have to ask yourself who ultimately pays these tariffs? Yes, that would be us, the US consumer.

That is the basic lie of the left economically. Consumers pay all taxes, businesses pass them on, they don't eat them. It's bizarre how the left grasp that if the cost of steel goes up that's a cost and companies pass it on. Then when you point out that taxes are a cost, they pass it on, the left is like what? That makes no sense

I'm hardly a leftist and every time we get on this issue I am called that...............so be it.............our jobs are leaving...........one aspect is the regulations nightmare and high taxes of this country...........the other is we don't have a level playing field............Since we have higher standards of income, Regulations, and etc......Free Trade Agreements with countries like Mexico and China give them the advantage as they don't play by the same rules...........Many call this Fair Trade.........In regards to Canada.........we have similar laws and regs so the field is level................China has virtually no EPA standards and Regs whatsoever............

Free Trade has cost us MILLIONS of jobs...............so have high taxes and regulations............If you are in favor of Cheap foreign goods at the DESTRUCTION of our industrial base..........then you favor Free Trade.

Perhaps you like the United States being told to change it's laws from a Foreign court as well................

I remember your statements in the past Kaz.............If I were to do work on your electrical I would CHARGE you triple the price for the new age of America................Because back on that thread you took a dump on Blue Collar Workers.........saying oh well if those jobs get hammered.

We can't allow the jobs to go out of country at the levels happening now without destroying the American Worker.

I don't remember calling you a leftist, but here's the thing. Liberals want to punish American companies for leaving. I want to level the playing field. The by far best way to do that is the Fair Tax, but no matter how you do it, punishing them for leaving either makes them just be more clever or fold when they can't compete.

So Eagle, I'm not sure what you're saying, I'm asking you. You're not for just punishing American companies for wanting to leave, are you? Let's remove their incentives for leaving.

 

[Maryland Patriot]

Republicans have broken voter turnout records in every state so far. I'm pretty sure that is the result of the Trump phenomenon. I'm also pretty sure a lot of his supporters will disappear with him if he loses the nomination. I know how much a lot of you dislike Trump, but at this point he is probably the best bet for a Republican win.

Then it's a bet republicans will lose.

I agree, the RNC is going to pick who they want, not who the people want, and thats not Trump. Just like the DNC is going to pick Hillary even though its clear the people want Bernie.