Judge in Floyd case opens door for an acquital.

[Lastamender]

He very well may have had trouble breathing then also.

What you do is get someone medical help, not kneel on their neck until they die.

That's what they were waiting for.

You assist someone, not kneel on their neck until they die.

When you apply pressure on the sides of the neck you do not block the windpipe. Try it. Floyd died of a drug overdose. He said he could not breathe before the cops touched him.

I already addressed this. He very well may have had trouble breathing before hand. What you do is address their issue not kneel on their neck until they are dead.

What you do is not resist arrest. When you do there are consequences.

There are. Those consequences are not supposed to be what we saw here.

Are you a cop? Have you been trained and spent years on a police force? What city, what was your rank? How long did you serve?

 

[ColonelAngus]

That has yet to be proven. It’s been stated Floyd overdosed. His blood level was very high supposedly.

Only hard rightwing white supremacists are stating that he died of an overdose.

Every one else in the entire world witnessed that he was murdered by Chauvin due to asphyxiation of the throat via a knee on his neck.

Link to autopsy result.

floyd-autopsy-6-3-20.pdf (hennepin.us)

VI. Toxicology (see attached report for full details; testing performed on antemortem blood specimens collected 5/25/20 at 9:00 p.m. at HHC and on postmortem urine) A. Blood drug and novel psychoactive substances screens: 1. Fentanyl 11 ng/mL 2. Norfentanyl 5.6 ng/mL 3. 4-ANPP 0.65 ng/mL 4. Methamphetamine 19 ng/mL 5. 11-Hydroxy Delta-9 THC 1.2 ng/mL; Delta-9 Carboxy THC 42 ng/mL; Delta-9 THC 2.9 ng/mL 6. Cotinine positive 7. Caffeine positive B. Blood volatiles: negative for ethanol, methanol, isopropanol, or acetone C.

NorFentanyl and Fentanyl.....17ng/ml in his blood.

AVERAGE FATAL DOSE OF FENTANYL IS 10 ng/ml

What Is a Fatal Dose of Fentanyl? | SGT Report

The cops had to know Floyd was drugged as soon as they came in contact with him. They also had to know placing your body weight on his neck might cause a problem, for someone drugged out of his mind.

Floyd asked repeatedly to be allowed to lay on the ground.

You are now in their heads. I am just dealing in facts from the video, the toxicology report, and the autopsy.

Floyd must have known that passing a counterfeit bill might cause a problem.

Are you claiming the cops couldn’t have known he was drugged? Cops see drugged people all the time. They know the signs.

You are in their head. I stick to facts.

Floyd died of CARDIC ARREST as a result of HYPERTENSION, CORONARY DISEASE, INGESTION OF METHAMPHETAMINE AND FENTANYL, AND THE ADRENALINE RUNNING THROUGH HIS BODY FROM THE SITUATION....

That is from the autopsy.

I don’t disagree with that. However, when cops come in contact with someone who might be overdosing why put your weight on they’re neck for nine minutes? Watching him die.

You seem to be looking for facts to bolster your opinion.

I am dealing with the facts.

Sorry man.

 

[FA_Q2]

If a person has been arrested 100 times...and this is 101, that is relevant information to me about the likelihood the crime was committed.

A 75 year old man arrested for assault who has never had so much as a traffic ticket in his life is less likely to commit and assault than a 29 year old who has already been arrested 35 times. To me it is totally relevant.

It's questionable whether it's relevant or not. I mean, nobody is questioning whether Floyd was guilty of a crime, nor is anybody questioning the dangerous narcotics he loaded into his system. Passing counterfeit money is a federal offense, and they have the phony bill as evidence. So even if his record were allowed in the trial, I can't see that it would make a difference one way or another.

In this particular case, it may not matter. I dont see why people should freak out that the jury will be informed of his prior record.

Floyd’s prior record is irrelevant to the actions the cop is accused of.

then i guess you should obey law enforcement...
past acts, for a career criminal, should be introduced to explain its own, acceptable way of life.
if someone wants to play billy bad ass, then i would say you need to be prepared to get that back.

No. The cop is charged with murder. As such, Floyd’s past criminal record is irrelevant to the changes in question.

That is only true if the record is not relevant to the current incident.

Floyds behavior in previous interactions with the police is clearly relevant considering that the main defense Chauvin has is that Floyd was resisting and had to be physically subdued. Previous encounters where Floyd resisted arrest would clearly be relevant in establishing that Floyd has a history of violently resisting arrest.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Are you claiming the cops couldn’t have known he was drugged? Cops see drugged people all the time. They know the signs.

They knew he was on drugs which is why they tried to restrain him until the medics showed up.

 

[gipper]

If a person has been arrested 100 times...and this is 101, that is relevant information to me about the likelihood the crime was committed.

A 75 year old man arrested for assault who has never had so much as a traffic ticket in his life is less likely to commit and assault than a 29 year old who has already been arrested 35 times. To me it is totally relevant.

It's questionable whether it's relevant or not. I mean, nobody is questioning whether Floyd was guilty of a crime, nor is anybody questioning the dangerous narcotics he loaded into his system. Passing counterfeit money is a federal offense, and they have the phony bill as evidence. So even if his record were allowed in the trial, I can't see that it would make a difference one way or another.

In this particular case, it may not matter. I dont see why people should freak out that the jury will be informed of his prior record.

Floyd’s prior record is irrelevant to the actions the cop is accused of.

Floyd's criminal record establish the propensity for violence which he obviously had.

Where did he commit violence in this situation?

He was very violent in his resisting arrest. Holy shit.

So? Do you think cop murder is then acceptable even after the perp is handcuffed and constrained?

 

[FA_Q2]

Floyd died of CARDIC ARREST as a result of HYPERTENSION, CORONARY DISEASE, INGESTION OF METHAMPHETAMINE AND FENTANYL, AND THE ADRENALINE RUNNING THROUGH HIS BODY FROM THE SITUATION....


Can you people PLEASE deal with fucking facts?

I did, the statement I made was pulled directly from the autopsy report...

 

[Lastamender]

Where did he commit violence in this situation

Resisting arrest

So, killing someone for resisting arrest is acceptable in your world. Not mine.

That was not the intention and you know it. Why make the cop a murderer just to fit a narrative? That is all this is. More wood for the hate fire.

 

[gipper]

Are you claiming the cops couldn’t have known he was drugged? Cops see drugged people all the time. They know the signs.

They knew he was on drugs which is why they tried to restrain him until the medics showed up.

Nine minutes sitting on his neck watching him die, is overkill no?

 

[pknopp]

He very well may have had trouble breathing then also.

What you do is get someone medical help, not kneel on their neck until they die.

That's what they were waiting for.

You assist someone, not kneel on their neck until they die.

When you apply pressure on the sides of the neck you do not block the windpipe. Try it. Floyd died of a drug overdose. He said he could not breathe before the cops touched him.

I already addressed this. He very well may have had trouble breathing before hand. What you do is address their issue not kneel on their neck until they are dead.

What you do is not resist arrest. When you do there are consequences.

There are. Those consequences are not supposed to be what we saw here.

Are you a cop? Have you been trained and spent years on a police force? What city, what was your rank? How long did you serve?

Does a male gynecologist have a vagina?

Why has kneeling on people's neck been banned in many places?

Does a jury get to decide a malpractice case without being a doctor?

Your point is worthless.

 

[DrLove]

And that is why a second and third degree charge. Just because it wasn't premeditated doesn't mean it wasn't murder.
All three autopsies clearly stated "murder by asphyxiation" - But you'll spin until you fall down.

No, it said homicide. A homicide is not necessarily a murder.

If somebody dies by "accident" in any situation, that could be a charge for manslaughter. This officer in no way tried to kill this criminal.

And yet again, you are full of crap.

Definition of homicide (Merriam-Webster)

1: a person who kills another
2: a killing of one human being by another detectives investigating a homicide

Synonyms for homicide

Synonyms

• foul play,
• murder,
• rubout,
• slaying

That is incorrect in the context of autopsy reports.

Homicide: Manner of Death vs. Legal Conclusion - Forensic Resources

Like many other experts, medical examiners use terms of art which might be confusing for non-experts. The use of the term “homicide” to classify a death might confuse jurors and attorneys alike. It may, therefore, be worthwhile to take steps to ensure that a medical examiner’s testimony conveys...

forensicresources.org

When a medical examiner identifies a manner of death as “homicide,” they are not drawing a legal conclusion. When a death is not from disease, homicide is simply one of the five permissible classifications of death. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 130A-385 (the others are “accident, suicide, … execution by the State, or undetermined”). According to the National Association of Medical Examiners (NAME), “[h]omicide occurs when death results from a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death.” In a publication entitled A Guide for Manner of Death Classification, NAME specifically notes “t is to be emphasized that the classification of Homicide for the purposes of death certification is a ‘neutral’ term and neither indicates nor implies criminal intent, which remains a determination within the province of legal processes.”

Essentially, the autopsy confirms that it was Chauvin's actions that were the primary cause of death but that does not translate into the legal term murder as the medical examiner does not have the information available to make that call.

All a medical examiner does when classifying a death is determine if that death was self inflicted, accidental or caused by another person. For instance, a death as a direct result of self defense is a 'homicide' from the standpoint of a medical examiner's report.

You cannot use dictionary definitions in highly technical fields - those words have very specific meanings in their professional use.

Are you an attorney or did you merely sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night? No, of course the coroner or forensic pathologist doesn't make a determination as to guilt/ innocence or the potential degree of a murder charge. Do you believe that a second or third degree murder (manslaughter) isn't a homicide and ALSO a murder? They call it a murder for a reason. Stop playing semantical games - You and Ray are full of crap.

 

[Foreigner Looking In.]

When is the verdict expected?

 

[gipper]

Where did he commit violence in this situation

Resisting arrest

So, killing someone for resisting arrest is acceptable in your world. Not mine.

That was not the intention and you know it. Why make the cop a murderer just to fit a narrative? That is all this is. More wood for the hate fire.

You aren’t thinking.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nine minutes sitting on his neck watching him die, is overkill no?

Police use that technique all the time and nobody dies. This guy had a mix of things that killed him. Officers use this move so a suspect (even handcuffed) doesn't injure himself.

 

[FA_Q2]

And that is why a second and third degree charge. Just because it wasn't premeditated doesn't mean it wasn't murder.
All three autopsies clearly stated "murder by asphyxiation" - But you'll spin until you fall down.

No, it said homicide. A homicide is not necessarily a murder.

If somebody dies by "accident" in any situation, that could be a charge for manslaughter. This officer in no way tried to kill this criminal.

And yet again, you are full of crap.

Definition of homicide (Merriam-Webster)

1: a person who kills another
2: a killing of one human being by another detectives investigating a homicide

Synonyms for homicide

Synonyms

• foul play,
• murder,
• rubout,
• slaying

That is incorrect in the context of autopsy reports.

Homicide: Manner of Death vs. Legal Conclusion - Forensic Resources

Like many other experts, medical examiners use terms of art which might be confusing for non-experts. The use of the term “homicide” to classify a death might confuse jurors and attorneys alike. It may, therefore, be worthwhile to take steps to ensure that a medical examiner’s testimony conveys...

forensicresources.org

When a medical examiner identifies a manner of death as “homicide,” they are not drawing a legal conclusion. When a death is not from disease, homicide is simply one of the five permissible classifications of death. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 130A-385 (the others are “accident, suicide, … execution by the State, or undetermined”). According to the National Association of Medical Examiners (NAME), “[h]omicide occurs when death results from a volitional act committed by another person to cause fear, harm, or death.” In a publication entitled A Guide for Manner of Death Classification, NAME specifically notes “t is to be emphasized that the classification of Homicide for the purposes of death certification is a ‘neutral’ term and neither indicates nor implies criminal intent, which remains a determination within the province of legal processes.”

Essentially, the autopsy confirms that it was Chauvin's actions that were the primary cause of death but that does not translate into the legal term murder as the medical examiner does not have the information available to make that call.

All a medical examiner does when classifying a death is determine if that death was self inflicted, accidental or caused by another person. For instance, a death as a direct result of self defense is a 'homicide' from the standpoint of a medical examiner's report.

You cannot use dictionary definitions in highly technical fields - those words have very specific meanings in their professional use.

Are you an attorney or did you merely sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night? No, of course the coroner or forensic pathologist doesn't make a determination as to guilt/ innocence or the potential degree of a murder charge. Do you believe that a second or third degree murder (manslaughter) isn't a homicide and ALSO a murder? They call it a murder for a reason. Stop playing semantical games - You and Ray are full of crap.

...

It is a hard fact. Homicide does not mean murder in the context of an autopsy report, period. That you do not like that fact is not relevant. Stating a "coroner or forensic pathologist doesn't make a determination as to guilt/ innocence or the potential degree of a murder charge" is nothing more then begging the question. Same thing as asking why you beat your wife. They do not make a determination as to the 'degree' of the murder charge because they do not make a determination that there was a murder in the first place, period.

Like I said, killing someone in self defense, a totally legal action that can be in no way construed as murder, is labeled as a homicide in the corner report. That is a fact.

 

[DrLove]

And yet again, you are full of crap.

Definition of homicide (Merriam-Webster)

1: a person who kills another
2: a killing of one human being by another detectives investigating a homicide

Synonyms for homicide

Synonyms

• foul play,
• murder,
• rubout,
• slaying

What's the difference between homicide, murder and manslaughter? - Murphy Law Office

Murphy Law Office | Criminal Defense Attorneys in Rapid City, SD

murphylawoffice.org

From your own link:

Second degree murder usually includes all intentional killings that are not premeditated, and some killings that resulted from conduct so reckless it showed a grave indifference to the sanctity of human life or the welfare of others.

When you kneel on a man's neck for 9 and 1/2 minutes, while it may not be premeditated murder one - But it's minimally a 2 or a 3. Particularly considering he was limp and lifeless with no pulse 4 and 1/2 minutes in. I just watched the video again and was DISGUSTED by one of them commanding him to "get up" - He couldn't get up and you damn well know it. And these assholes who didn't intervene at that point are accessory to murder 2 or 3.

Face it, if Mr Floyd had been white and the cop on his neck had been black - You'd be calling for the cops head and you KNOW it.

 

[DrLove]

It is a hard fact. Homicide does not mean murder in the context of an autopsy report, period. That you do not like that fact is not relevant. Stating a "coroner or forensic pathologist doesn't make a determination as to guilt/ innocence or the potential degree of a murder charge" is nothing more then begging the question. Same thing as asking why you beat your wife. They do not make a determination as to the 'degree' of the murder charge because they do not make a determination that there was a murder in the first place, period.

Like I said, killing someone in self defense, a totally legal action that can be in no way construed as murder, is labeled as a homicide in the corner report. That is a fact.

Oh I see - So NOW this was self defense? The man was cuffed, face down and begging for his life. What BULLSHIT you spew.

 

[ZZ PUPPS]

Involuntary homicide (negligent manslaughter) appears to be the only charge that has a potential guilty verdict. It would turn on if the officer was negligent in remaining on Floyd's neck AFTER he stopped resisting arrest AND that the act had a significant impact upon the mechanism of his death. If other officers tried to get the cop to remove his knee and he refused, ignorance of the potential impact cannot be claimed - thus constituting implied consent to the potential outcome of his failure to release action.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

From your own link:

Second degree murder usually includes all intentional killings that are not premeditated, and some killings that resulted from conduct so reckless it showed a grave indifference to the sanctity of human life or the welfare of others.

When you kneel on a man's neck for 9 and 1/2 minutes, while it may not be premeditated murder one - But it's minimally a 2 or a 3. Particularly considering he was limp and lifeless with no pulse 4 and 1/2 minutes in. I just watched the video again and was DISGUSTED by one of them commanding him to "get up" - He couldn't get up and you damn well know it. And these assholes who didn't intervene at that point are accessory to murder 2 or 3.

Face it, if Mr Floyd had been white and the cop on his neck had been black - You'd be calling for the cops head and you KNOW it.

Absolutely wrong. Whites are not like blacks. If a white suspect dies in a police conflict, most of us white people say the asshole deserved it. That's why the media doesn't report on white people getting killed by the cops. They know we are civilized and won't riot. The media loves riots. Riots mean ratings, and ratings means they can increase their advertisement rates.

 

[Meathead]

And yet again, you are full of crap.

Definition of homicide (Merriam-Webster)

1: a person who kills another
2: a killing of one human being by another detectives investigating a homicide

Synonyms for homicide

Synonyms

• foul play,
• murder,
• rubout,
• slaying

What's the difference between homicide, murder and manslaughter? - Murphy Law Office

Murphy Law Office | Criminal Defense Attorneys in Rapid City, SD

murphylawoffice.org

From your own link:

Second degree murder usually includes all intentional killings that are not premeditated, and some killings that resulted from conduct so reckless it showed a grave indifference to the sanctity of human life or the welfare of others.

When you kneel on a man's neck for 9 and 1/2 minutes, while it may not be premeditated murder one - But it's minimally a 2 or a 3. Particularly considering he was limp and lifeless with no pulse 4 and 1/2 minutes in. I just watched the video again and was DISGUSTED by one of them commanding him to "get up" - He couldn't get up and you damn well know it. And these assholes who didn't intervene at that point are accessory to murder 2 or 3.

Face it, if Mr Floyd had been white and the cop on his neck had been black - You'd be calling for the cops head and you KNOW it.

It is exceedingly difficult to dictate the "sanctity of life" to society when the "life" itself has so little regard for it.

Floyd lived as a thug and died as one.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Involuntary homicide (negligent manslaughter) appears to be the only charge that has a potential guilty verdict. It would turn on if the officer was negligent in remaining on Floyd's neck AFTER he stopped resisting arrest AND that the act had a significant impact upon the mechanism of his death. If other officers tried to get the cop to remove his knee and he refused, ignorance of the potential impact cannot be claimed - thus constituting implied consent to the potential outcome of his failure to release action.

First off the other officers were underlings. They didn't have the same or higher rank than the officer calling the shots who was kneeling on his neck. Nobody knew this drug addict was going to die or everybody would have reacted differently.

If a lesser ranked officer pulled a superior off of a suspect and the suspect lived, that officer would be disciplined and even be fired. He'd never get another job in police work again.