Judasim and the "Pie in the Sky"

[ding]

To blame the failing of man on religion not only shows ignorance it shows bias.

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

 

[Karl Rand]

To blame the failing of man on religion not only shows ignorance it shows bias.

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

 

[ding]

To blame the failing of man on religion not only shows ignorance it shows bias.

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

 

[Karl Rand]

To blame the failing of man on religion not only shows ignorance it shows bias.

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

So what?

 

[ding]

To blame the failing of man on religion not only shows ignorance it shows bias.

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

So what?

Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions.

 

[ding]

Traditional theory, if applied properly, will always defeat critical theory.

You just witnessed it.

 

[Disir]

To blame the failing of man on religion not only shows ignorance it shows bias.

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

Subsidized by the government.

 

[ding]

To blame the failing of man on religion not only shows ignorance it shows bias.

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

Subsidized by the government.

I don’t believe so. The donors received tax breaks and tax breaks are not subsidies.

 

[Disir]

Putting it another way, any true religion believes that one's conduct in life MATTERS. Virtue will ultimately be rewarded and evil punished. Psychologically, this belief is one of the main justifications for the very existence of religion. In life, virtue is often NOT rewarded in any meaningful way, and bad people often go to their graves fat, dumb, and happy. The Pie in the Sky rectifies this perceived injustice.

Judaism has always been "weak" as regards the Pie in the Sky. I do not believe that there is any definitive jewish teaching regarding the afterlife, and there is nothing definitively describing rewards and punishments ("heaven & hell").

And while Jewish teachings encourage altruism in many aspects, they are not formulated as commands or imperatives (or at least not taken as such).

This is why Christianity has been considered a death cult since late antiquity. If you do what you are told now and accept whatever your earthly fate is then you will be rewarded..........later....when you are dead. That big ol' meany is going to get it..........later........when he's dead. Let me repeat that: Justice will be served when you are dead. Just keep one foot in the grave at all times. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

the failure of judaism to embrace the Pie in the Sky has caused it to fail as a religion. For most of its adherents.

There is no failure of Judaism. None.

 

[Disir]

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

Subsidized by the government.

I don’t believe so. The donors received tax breaks and tax breaks are not subsidies.

Faith based initiatives.

 

[Penelope]

Les Moonves - Wikipedia

It pains me to write this, but what the hell, it's an anonymous forum so here goes.

The (Roman Catholic) Second Vatican Council, as I saw it, defined a legitimate religion as one that (a) believed in a supreme being, (b) believed in an eternal soul, and (c) believed that in some way, after death, a virtuous life would be rewarded and an evil life would be punished. This last belief is sometimes cynically referred to as the "pie in the sky."

Putting it another way, any true religion believes that one's conduct in life MATTERS. Virtue will ultimately be rewarded and evil punished. Psychologically, this belief is one of the main justifications for the very existence of religion. In life, virtue is often NOT rewarded in any meaningful way, and bad people often go to their graves fat, dumb, and happy. The Pie in the Sky rectifies this perceived injustice.

Judaism has always been "weak" as regards the Pie in the Sky. I do not believe that there is any definitive jewish teaching regarding the afterlife, and there is nothing definitively describing rewards and punishments ("heaven & hell").

And while Jewish teachings encourage altruism in many aspects, they are not formulated as commands or imperatives (or at least not taken as such).

So it is with much regret that i bring my lifelong observation that jews are often at Ground Zero in areas where immorality rears its ugly head. Look at a listing of "slum landlords," and jewish names abound. In the days when pornography was nearly outlawed, the profiteers in this sordid business were almost all jews. As the common culture (in film) broke taboo after taboo, the trailbreakers were all jews. The businesses that exploit the poor, ignorant masses...pawn shops, ghetto jewelers, payday lenders, furniture "rental" stores...are all dominated by jewish businessmen. Not strictly illegal, but far from moral.

Today one notes that ethnic jews are walking away from their faith in droves, utterly rejecting its teachings on homosexualty, marriage, and abortion. Many Reform jews freely admit to being either atheist or agnostic.

In Israel, judaism seems to have devolved into such a self-centered incestuous cult in which nothing but the tiny clique matters.

Outside Israel, even among the truly faithful - orthodox and conservative congregations - judaism does not seem to result in a great deal of altruistic activity, save from a few ultra-rich jews who throw crumbs about, largely for their own glorification (M. Bloomberg).

Does virtue ultimately matter?

The subject of the above link is called a philanthropist by some, but obviously is a morally hollow fellow. Before knowing for certain i would have bet a thousand dollars that he was a jew.

So my thesis is as follows: the failure of judaism to embrace the Pie in the Sky has caused it to fail as a religion. For most of its adherents.

Everything you said about Judaism is wrong and through your lack of knowledge of Judaism, probably just a selective observation of a small sample of Jews and not Judaism.
Judaism is what brought you the teachings of Resurrection that got bastardized by Roman plagiarizing the Baal death scene in creating it's Jesus death scene.
In Judaism yes death is no more rememberance, however as I'll explain later*, they teach resurrection as the only way to be rewarded for creating that perfected world to come and even science proves Judaic philosophy through Bohm and Kohns theorems in that you are punished or rewarded by your acts through cause and affect and inter connectivity.
Thus children paying the price for their father's sins in the Tanakh are science fact and historically proven.
One recent example of this fact is seen in how the kids of Nazis Germany's elders suffer immigration problems today, because they so misstreated immigrants in the past, that today they feel obligated to do the opposite at their own demise and suffering. so rhe sons suffer at the acts of their fathers as a Biblical teaching is seen true through history.
*JUDAIC RESURRECTION TEACHING*
that the only path to eternity and justice for those who lived right would be to HaShev (return/place back) into LIFE to see how their works lead to a perfected place in LIFE. HENCE heaven (olam habah) means time to come (future perfected). In other words they taught a message of life and reward in life while greek death cultcand Egyptian underworld teachings in Christianity taught a message of deathvthat therefore lead society to death (over 50 million murdered in thousands of wars over the messengers of death).

*little known fact : the Rabbi in the OT who taught the resurrection concept was Rabbi Yohoshua ben Channiah and he predicted the exact bone used in the process as the only bone we get the best entact DNA from in cloning.
It's my opinion that this predated Rabbi was used as a minute portion of the created Jesus image because the NT mentions Jesus going to Channa (to see his father) which could actually be seeing Channa his father not town*, a story confused by passing it down the line or plagiarized as many OT stories were done in creating his image.
*evidence they mix people names with towns is seen in Matthew in falacious placement of Jesus into Micah 5 where "Bethlehem Ephrata" is a person out of the lineage, even the word clan is used and has nothing to do with the town Bethlehem.

Didn't Abraham use to worship baal-berith: Isn't that how he came up with the covenant of circumcision. BAAL-BERITH - JewishEncyclopedia.com

 

[norwegen]

To blame the failing of man on religion not only shows ignorance it shows bias.

In your case arguing the opposite shows theological ignorance and philosophical irrationality.

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

Subsidized by the government.

You mean the government doesn't interfere with them?

 

[norwegen]

Putting it another way, any true religion believes that one's conduct in life MATTERS. Virtue will ultimately be rewarded and evil punished. Psychologically, this belief is one of the main justifications for the very existence of religion. In life, virtue is often NOT rewarded in any meaningful way, and bad people often go to their graves fat, dumb, and happy. The Pie in the Sky rectifies this perceived injustice.

Judaism has always been "weak" as regards the Pie in the Sky. I do not believe that there is any definitive jewish teaching regarding the afterlife, and there is nothing definitively describing rewards and punishments ("heaven & hell").

And while Jewish teachings encourage altruism in many aspects, they are not formulated as commands or imperatives (or at least not taken as such).

This is why Christianity has been considered a death cult since late antiquity. If you do what you are told now and accept whatever your earthly fate is then you will be rewarded..........later....when you are dead. That big ol' meany is going to get it..........later........when he's dead. Let me repeat that: Justice will be served when you are dead. Just keep one foot in the grave at all times. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

the failure of judaism to embrace the Pie in the Sky has caused it to fail as a religion. For most of its adherents.

There is no failure of Judaism. None.

Judaism failed to proselytize. Just the opposite, in fact; it harbored proclivities toward intermarriage and idolatry. Within its own framework, it was a peculiar community of people who did not participate in larger community festivals and observations, who practiced circumcision, who refused to commit to a full week of work, and who abstained from eating perfectly good foods. Judea even failed to maintain its very identity after the Roman-Jewish Wars.

They were a wayward people from whom God snatched the kingdom to give to a more productive people: the Christians (Mt 21:43).

Even modern Judaism failed to establish its own homeland. Jews could only claim land for themselves nearly 1900 years after they lost it thanks to a League of Nations mandate. Modern Israel has little if any connection to its ancient past. It is merely a political state that has yet to rebuild its temple or renew its covenant with God.

 

[Indeependent]

Les Moonves - Wikipedia

It pains me to write this, but what the hell, it's an anonymous forum so here goes.

The (Roman Catholic) Second Vatican Council, as I saw it, defined a legitimate religion as one that (a) believed in a supreme being, (b) believed in an eternal soul, and (c) believed that in some way, after death, a virtuous life would be rewarded and an evil life would be punished. This last belief is sometimes cynically referred to as the "pie in the sky."

Putting it another way, any true religion believes that one's conduct in life MATTERS. Virtue will ultimately be rewarded and evil punished. Psychologically, this belief is one of the main justifications for the very existence of religion. In life, virtue is often NOT rewarded in any meaningful way, and bad people often go to their graves fat, dumb, and happy. The Pie in the Sky rectifies this perceived injustice.

Judaism has always been "weak" as regards the Pie in the Sky. I do not believe that there is any definitive jewish teaching regarding the afterlife, and there is nothing definitively describing rewards and punishments ("heaven & hell").

And while Jewish teachings encourage altruism in many aspects, they are not formulated as commands or imperatives (or at least not taken as such).

So it is with much regret that i bring my lifelong observation that jews are often at Ground Zero in areas where immorality rears its ugly head. Look at a listing of "slum landlords," and jewish names abound. In the days when pornography was nearly outlawed, the profiteers in this sordid business were almost all jews. As the common culture (in film) broke taboo after taboo, the trailbreakers were all jews. The businesses that exploit the poor, ignorant masses...pawn shops, ghetto jewelers, payday lenders, furniture "rental" stores...are all dominated by jewish businessmen. Not strictly illegal, but far from moral.

Today one notes that ethnic jews are walking away from their faith in droves, utterly rejecting its teachings on homosexualty, marriage, and abortion. Many Reform jews freely admit to being either atheist or agnostic.

In Israel, judaism seems to have devolved into such a self-centered incestuous cult in which nothing but the tiny clique matters.

Outside Israel, even among the truly faithful - orthodox and conservative congregations - judaism does not seem to result in a great deal of altruistic activity, save from a few ultra-rich jews who throw crumbs about, largely for their own glorification (M. Bloomberg).

Does virtue ultimately matter?

The subject of the above link is called a philanthropist by some, but obviously is a morally hollow fellow. Before knowing for certain i would have bet a thousand dollars that he was a jew.

So my thesis is as follows: the failure of judaism to embrace the Pie in the Sky has caused it to fail as a religion. For most of its adherents.

Everything you said about Judaism is wrong and through your lack of knowledge of Judaism, probably just a selective observation of a small sample of Jews and not Judaism.
Judaism is what brought you the teachings of Resurrection that got bastardized by Roman plagiarizing the Baal death scene in creating it's Jesus death scene.
In Judaism yes death is no more rememberance, however as I'll explain later*, they teach resurrection as the only way to be rewarded for creating that perfected world to come and even science proves Judaic philosophy through Bohm and Kohns theorems in that you are punished or rewarded by your acts through cause and affect and inter connectivity.
Thus children paying the price for their father's sins in the Tanakh are science fact and historically proven.
One recent example of this fact is seen in how the kids of Nazis Germany's elders suffer immigration problems today, because they so misstreated immigrants in the past, that today they feel obligated to do the opposite at their own demise and suffering. so rhe sons suffer at the acts of their fathers as a Biblical teaching is seen true through history.
*JUDAIC RESURRECTION TEACHING*
that the only path to eternity and justice for those who lived right would be to HaShev (return/place back) into LIFE to see how their works lead to a perfected place in LIFE. HENCE heaven (olam habah) means time to come (future perfected). In other words they taught a message of life and reward in life while greek death cultcand Egyptian underworld teachings in Christianity taught a message of deathvthat therefore lead society to death (over 50 million murdered in thousands of wars over the messengers of death).

*little known fact : the Rabbi in the OT who taught the resurrection concept was Rabbi Yohoshua ben Channiah and he predicted the exact bone used in the process as the only bone we get the best entact DNA from in cloning.
It's my opinion that this predated Rabbi was used as a minute portion of the created Jesus image because the NT mentions Jesus going to Channa (to see his father) which could actually be seeing Channa his father not town*, a story confused by passing it down the line or plagiarized as many OT stories were done in creating his image.
*evidence they mix people names with towns is seen in Matthew in falacious placement of Jesus into Micah 5 where "Bethlehem Ephrata" is a person out of the lineage, even the word clan is used and has nothing to do with the town Bethlehem.

Didn't Abraham use to worship baal-berith: Isn't that how he came up with the covenant of circumcision. BAAL-BERITH - JewishEncyclopedia.com

No.

 

[DGS49]

Elaborating on my prior point, I posit that MEN ARE EVIL BY NATURE.

Without an intervening force, humans will be selfish, cruel (even sadistic), avaricious, violent, unforgiving, and reproductively/carnally irresponsible. The proof is all around us. Look at the behavior that characterizes our worst ghettos: theft, drug abuse, physical abuse, violent crime, rampant irresponsible sexual behavior, endemic sloth, rejection of education and other personal development. These are manifestations of Man in his natural state.

And so it is instructive and valuable to identify people and communities that are antithetical to this natural state, to see what drives the "abnormal" behaviors of kindness, consideration, modesty, sexual fidelity, almsgiving, hard work, persistence, reverence for knowledge, and so forth. USUALLY, some form of "religion" is largely responsible.

And if a religion fails to result, generally, in these sorts of behaviors, then one could say that it "fails" as a religion.

For a contrast to my ugly portrayal of modern judaism above, look at LDS. It is theologically preposterous, but it seems to spawn all of the positive behaviors and attitudes mentioned above.

P.S. Did someone above imply that judaism teaches REINCARNATION? Or did I misinterpret?

 

[ding]

No. It shows I don’t throw the baby out with the dirty bath water.

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

Subsidized by the government.

I don’t believe so. The donors received tax breaks and tax breaks are not subsidies.

Faith based initiatives.

Like what?

 

[Taz]

Your usage of the English language is sufficiently obscure and opaque to compose your own scripture. Maybe however you should start somewhere basic by re-writing the begats?

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

Subsidized by the government.

I don’t believe so. The donors received tax breaks and tax breaks are not subsidies.

Faith based initiatives.

Like what?

Pulling funding for contraception in Africa.

 

[Karl Rand]

Even modern Judaism failed to establish its own homeland. Jews could only claim land for themselves nearly 1900 years after they lost it thanks to a League of Nations mandate. Modern Israel has little if any connection to its ancient past. It is merely a political state that has yet to rebuild its temple or renew its covenant with God.

Given the Israeli Gov’t has a active program supporting academic falsification of archeological ‘discoveries’ it’s almost impossible to separate ancient myth from recent claims.
We may also want to ask why the re-establishment of the temple and/or the ‘renewal of it’s covenant with God' (whatever that may mean) would justify the forced takeover of Palestine.
Strangely I suspect the establishment of Israel was assisted in part by the British because of their closeted anti-semitism. “We’d rather have them over there than all coming to England after the war”

Allow me to wander off topic for a bit. I’ve never understood why so much fuss is made of nations such as Iran aquiring nuclear weapons when Israel has been armed to the teeth with them for decades.

 

[ding]

Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations.

Subsidized by the government.

I don’t believe so. The donors received tax breaks and tax breaks are not subsidies.

Faith based initiatives.

Like what?

Pulling funding for contraception in Africa.

Somehow I don’t believe that was what he was getting at. But hey, there’s an opportunity for you to create an atheist charity to fill that void.

 

[HaShev]

Les Moonves - Wikipedia

It pains me to write this, but what the hell, it's an anonymous forum so here goes.

The (Roman Catholic) Second Vatican Council, as I saw it, defined a legitimate religion as one that (a) believed in a supreme being, (b) believed in an eternal soul, and (c) believed that in some way, after death, a virtuous life would be rewarded and an evil life would be punished. This last belief is sometimes cynically referred to as the "pie in the sky."

Putting it another way, any true religion believes that one's conduct in life MATTERS. Virtue will ultimately be rewarded and evil punished. Psychologically, this belief is one of the main justifications for the very existence of religion. In life, virtue is often NOT rewarded in any meaningful way, and bad people often go to their graves fat, dumb, and happy. The Pie in the Sky rectifies this perceived injustice.

Judaism has always been "weak" as regards the Pie in the Sky. I do not believe that there is any definitive jewish teaching regarding the afterlife, and there is nothing definitively describing rewards and punishments ("heaven & hell").

And while Jewish teachings encourage altruism in many aspects, they are not formulated as commands or imperatives (or at least not taken as such).

So it is with much regret that i bring my lifelong observation that jews are often at Ground Zero in areas where immorality rears its ugly head. Look at a listing of "slum landlords," and jewish names abound. In the days when pornography was nearly outlawed, the profiteers in this sordid business were almost all jews. As the common culture (in film) broke taboo after taboo, the trailbreakers were all jews. The businesses that exploit the poor, ignorant masses...pawn shops, ghetto jewelers, payday lenders, furniture "rental" stores...are all dominated by jewish businessmen. Not strictly illegal, but far from moral.

Today one notes that ethnic jews are walking away from their faith in droves, utterly rejecting its teachings on homosexualty, marriage, and abortion. Many Reform jews freely admit to being either atheist or agnostic.

In Israel, judaism seems to have devolved into such a self-centered incestuous cult in which nothing but the tiny clique matters.

Outside Israel, even among the truly faithful - orthodox and conservative congregations - judaism does not seem to result in a great deal of altruistic activity, save from a few ultra-rich jews who throw crumbs about, largely for their own glorification (M. Bloomberg).

Does virtue ultimately matter?

The subject of the above link is called a philanthropist by some, but obviously is a morally hollow fellow. Before knowing for certain i would have bet a thousand dollars that he was a jew.

So my thesis is as follows: the failure of judaism to embrace the Pie in the Sky has caused it to fail as a religion. For most of its adherents.

Everything you said about Judaism is wrong and through your lack of knowledge of Judaism, probably just a selective observation of a small sample of Jews and not Judaism.
Judaism is what brought you the teachings of Resurrection that got bastardized by Roman plagiarizing the Baal death scene in creating it's Jesus death scene.
In Judaism yes death is no more rememberance, however as I'll explain later*, they teach resurrection as the only way to be rewarded for creating that perfected world to come and even science proves Judaic philosophy through Bohm and Kohns theorems in that you are punished or rewarded by your acts through cause and affect and inter connectivity.
Thus children paying the price for their father's sins in the Tanakh are science fact and historically proven.
One recent example of this fact is seen in how the kids of Nazis Germany's elders suffer immigration problems today, because they so misstreated immigrants in the past, that today they feel obligated to do the opposite at their own demise and suffering. so rhe sons suffer at the acts of their fathers as a Biblical teaching is seen true through history.
*JUDAIC RESURRECTION TEACHING*
that the only path to eternity and justice for those who lived right would be to HaShev (return/place back) into LIFE to see how their works lead to a perfected place in LIFE. HENCE heaven (olam habah) means time to come (future perfected). In other words they taught a message of life and reward in life while greek death cultcand Egyptian underworld teachings in Christianity taught a message of deathvthat therefore lead society to death (over 50 million murdered in thousands of wars over the messengers of death).

*little known fact : the Rabbi in the OT who taught the resurrection concept was Rabbi Yohoshua ben Channiah and he predicted the exact bone used in the process as the only bone we get the best entact DNA from in cloning.
It's my opinion that this predated Rabbi was used as a minute portion of the created Jesus image because the NT mentions Jesus going to Channa (to see his father) which could actually be seeing Channa his father not town*, a story confused by passing it down the line or plagiarized as many OT stories were done in creating his image.
*evidence they mix people names with towns is seen in Matthew in falacious placement of Jesus into Micah 5 where "Bethlehem Ephrata" is a person out of the lineage, even the word clan is used and has nothing to do with the town Bethlehem.

Didn't Abraham use to worship baal-berith: Isn't that how he came up with the covenant of circumcision. BAAL-BERITH - JewishEncyclopedia.com

The story of Abraham is about a man's transformation and progression (stepping over the boundries of the flowing river to come into a whole new place in his life), literally and figuratively represented by that journey.
Even in his new land he progresses and has rationalization moments of awakening and proper perspectives. Before Abraham was a neighborly compassionate soul he was a self serving idol shop attendant idol worshiper in the land of Cannan which had the 2 deities I discussed, so yeah he would most likely start out a baal idol participant until he met Melchizedek (messenger of Righteousness) the high priest of Shalem which influenced Abraham to the more practical understandings of how things are and could be.
Instead of reliance on a metal, clay, wood figurine, Abraham was learning that kindness to ones neighbors and mitzvahs was the practical path to a more fruitful pleasant community and life.
In the story if Moses, some of the people were falling back towards their Canaanite rival god Baal so Moses had to do an Abraham impression by breakingvthe idols and destroting them (history reoeats), and this lesson about falling back onto old reliances of idols and repeating bad habits is even relevant and mirrored in our day and age and through the ages it has always been a problem no matter how many verses oppose idol worship or lessons on the subject there is.