Jo Jorgensen for President

Rocko

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Like it or not either Trump or Biden is getting elected. Voting for anyone else is a total waste
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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More of the tired scare tactics?
This seems to be the only retort you can muster. Surely you understand this is not compelling, in the face of mathematical fact.
Hmmm... guess you missed my other posts in this thread. Or, maybe, just maybe, you're full of shit.
No, they contained no deeper content. None. You have no counterargument to a mathematical reality. That's kind of what a mathematical reality is.

Now, you can say that you don't care about the mathematical reality. That's your right. But you cant wish it away by calling it names.
 

Natural Citizen

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At the end of the day, it's not about just trying to get elected. It's about changing the course of history. It's a gradual process. But that's a very deep discussion, more often reserved for those in the electorate who participate in the political process beyond just voting. That's the fundamental aspect that seems to be escaping FFI and others who approach such discussion in that kind of very limited, almost wanna say trained, way.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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Like it or not either Trump or Biden is getting elected. Voting for anyone else is a total waste
Oh, it is worst than "a waste". It is, ironically, a net vote for the one of the major candidates the voter prefers the least. Buying a lottery ticket is "wasting a dollar". This is more like picking the person you hate the most and giving them a dollar.
 

dblack

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More of the tired scare tactics?
This seems to be the only retort you can muster. Surely you understand this is not compelling, in the face of mathematical fact.
Hmmm... guess you missed my other posts in this thread. Or, maybe, just maybe, you're full of shit.
No, they contained no deeper content. None. You have no counterargument to a mathematical reality. That's kind of what a mathematical reality is.

Now, you can say that you don't care about the mathematical reality. That's your right. But you cant wish it away by calling it names.
The mathematical reality is that, as long as people keep falling for your sales pitch, and keeping voting for bad candidates, on purpose - we're going to elect bad leaders. Maybe, instead of trying to con everyone, the majors could just try nominating good candidates instead? Crazy, huh?
 

Rocko

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At the end of the day, it's not about just trying to get elected. It's about changing the course of history. It's a gradual process. But that's a very deep discussion, more often reserved for those in the electorate who participate in the political process beyond just voting.
Nah it’s a waste of time. Libertarians have been running forever and haven’t changed anything one iota
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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The mathematical reality is that, as long as people keep falling for your sales pitch, and keeping voting for bad candidates, on purpose - we're going to elect bad leaders.
That's not appropriate. This is you throwing a tantrum because the facts stand against you. Biden is not my choice for the nominee. And remember that your idea of bad candidates is your opinion. So whatever fantasyland you are in right now where the plurality would get behind Jo Jorgensen if mean old Fort Fun Indiana would just shut up, please slap yourself and come back to reality. Thanks.

My sales pitch is to change the system to make candidates like Jo more viable. Your sales pitch is a pie in the sky fantasy where getting Jo to 5% will change how everyone looks at things. Do better.
 

Rocko

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Like it or not either Trump or Biden is getting elected. Voting for anyone else is a total waste
Oh, it is worst than "a waste". It is, ironically, a net vote for the one of the major candidates the voter prefers the least. Buying a lottery ticket is "wasting a dollar". This is more like picking the person you hate the most and giving them a dollar.
I agree. That’s why you have to vote for the lesser of two evils. However this time around the election is a choice between Bevis and Butthead. Who knows who is worse?
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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The mathematical reality is that, as long as people keep falling for your sales pitch, and keeping voting for bad candidates, on purpose - we're going to elect bad leaders.
That's not appropriate.
Sometimes the truth is that way.
And sometimes we tell ourselves things are true when they aren't, because the only other option is to admit a mistake. So many 3rd party voters have to get past this hurdle every election season. Some manage.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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That’s why you have to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Always hated that saying. What choice isn't this, if you are willing to say anything and everything sucks? Has anyone here ever voted in an election and thought, "Now THAT is the perfect candidate and perfect person."

Its a pretty easy choice for me who is worse. I am beholden to ideas, not people. I will prefer the policies, cabinets, judges, etc of the biden administration, as they will more align with the ideas i prefer. Maybe by only a small margin, at worst. But that margin decides my vote, and it wasn't a hard decision. Because Garry Kasparov isn't running, and he wouldn't win if he was.
 

dblack

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The mathematical reality is that, as long as people keep falling for your sales pitch, and keeping voting for bad candidates, on purpose - we're going to elect bad leaders.
That's not appropriate.
Sometimes the truth is that way.
And sometimes we tell ourselves things are true when they aren't, because the only other option is to admit a mistake. So many 3rd party voters have to get past this hurdle every election season. Some manage.
Alright. For the purposes of discussion - let's say I buy into your appeal. And I sit down and do the math and figure out that, as crazy as Trump is, Biden is actually worse. Only slightly, but you're saying I gotta pick one. In this case, you're encouraging me to vote for Trump, rather than voting my conscience, right?
 

Natural Citizen

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Nah it’s a waste of time. Libertarians have been running forever and haven’t changed anything one iota
I wasn't really thinking about libertarians when I said that. If we go back to the 2014 mid-terms, prior to the 2016 general election, 50% of the electorate were not affiliated with either party. That number grows every year. Of course, the cable news entertainment platforms didn't and won't tell people that. People are generally geting tired of this fake two party system because they're starting to realize that there simply is no difference in them.

Trump's election was a product of that distaste. But Trump is also a clever opportunist who I'm sure was well aware of his statistical chances of getting elected, given the growing distaste for the duopoly. Plus, you know, a lot of people voted just as a retaliation for the brotha getting elected previously. And certainly, the same media effectively trains people to think that anyone outside of the duopoly is a waste of time. But, people are tired of media now, too, so. Like I said, it's a gradual process of continuing growth. The 2024 should be fun.

Probably since around '07/'08 the trend has grown remarkably.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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In this case, you're encouraging me to vote for Trump, rather than voting my conscience, right?
Correct, i am. Except your are voting with your conscience, once you cede that only one of two choices will be the next president.

The mathematical reality i present isn't partisan.
 

dblack

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In this case, you're encouraging me to vote for Trump, rather than voting my conscience, right?
Correct, i am. Except your are voting with your conscience, once you cede that only one of two choices will be the next president.

The mathematical reality i present isn't partisan.
LOL - there's no "mathematical reality" in what you present. It's a ploy, a head game - a scam to manipulate the vote with fear mongering. You're saying we should just accept that the system is going to serve us up two shitty candidates and we must choose between them? No thanks.
 

dblack

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Douglas Adams > Quotes > Quotable Quote
Douglas Adams
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"
"What?"
"I said," said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, "have you got any gin?"
"I'll look. Tell me about the lizards."
Ford shrugged again.
"Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happenned to them," he said. "They're completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone's got to say it."
"But that's terrible," said Arthur.
"Listen, bud," said Ford, "if I had one Altairian dollar for every time I heard one bit of the Universe look at another bit of the Universe and say 'That's terrible' I wouldn't be sitting here like a lemon looking for a gin.”


― Douglas Adams, So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
tags: arthur-dent, democracy, ford-prefect, h2g2, hitchhikers-guide-to-the-galaxy, humor
Read more quotes from Douglas Adams
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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LOL - there's no "mathematical reality" in what you present.
Yes, you keep reiterating this. But this is just not compelling in the face of a mathematical fact. If you do not vote for one of the two major candidates, you are casting a net vote for the one you least prefer. It doesn't matter if you vote for Jo or stay home. This is a mathematical fact. And you have no actual argument against it, because none exists. That's the nature of a mathematical fact.

Just admit you don't care. Why cant you? Does that make you...a bit queasy to admit? To admit your purity vote ends up actually being a net vote for your least preferred candidate? I can see how that would be a bit upsetting.
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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You're saying we should just accept that the system is going to serve us up two shitty candidates and we must choose between them?
I have repeatedly said, directly to you, that i would change the system to make candidates like Jo more viable. Repeatedly. Directly to you.
 
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dblack

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You're saying we should just accept that the system is going to serve us up two shitty candidates and we must choose between them?
I have repeatedly said, directly to you, that i would change the system to make candidates like Jo more viable. Repeatedly. Directly to you. Please pay attention.
No, I'm talking about the other thing you've been saying - that we should limit ourselves to only voting for D and R candidates in the meantime. I suppose that's great if you're a D or an R. But it kinda blows for the rest of us. I think it's stupid. I'm not doing it.

Your whole game is just an attempt to scare independents and third party advocates into voting for your candidate - without actually doing anything to appeal to these voters. Bottom line, if your party want's libertarian votes, they gotta do some libertarian shit. Currently, neither does.
 

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