Jews trying to get Americans killed - as usual

[Phoenall]

Palestine was in fact in a pre-state stage.

The British mandate should have been extended, as they had failed to do what was envisaged in bringing Palestine to statehood, with all the necessary institutions.

This was due to both the interruption of WWII and terrorist groups such as Irgun and Haganah, which had murdered Arabs and British to prevent a state being created by the indigenous people.

Good old Ariel Sharon - you remember him , the war criminal - he had a big hand in that. Partly why the Zionists love him as he was one of their terrorists.

Irgun and Haganah were created to protect the local Jewish communities from being attacked like they have been several times. And where did you read that they milled Arabs and Brits to prevent a state being created by the so called 'Palestinians'??? It was the Jews who accepted the partition plan .

Accepting partition was hardly in good faith. They felt that they could get that foothold and expand it. And partition was not the expectation of the Mandate, just an apparent face-saver for the UN when the European invaders proved they were not going to try to get along with the natives.

Partition was always the mandates intent as they had already partitioned Palestine into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. This left 5% of the original Palestine land for the RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWS. If Husseini had been silenced before wars end then there would not have been any problems.
It was the arab muslims that showed they would not get along with their former slaves and started violent uprisings and terrorist attacks to force the British into giving in to their demands. They then declared open war on the Jews contrary to the UN charter which they were signatories to

 

[aris2chat]

Interesting premise.

One of the duties of the mandate for Palestine was to assist immigrating Jews in obtaining Palestinian citizenship. These Jews were to become citizens of what? Citizens of nothing as Israeli propaganda would have us to believe?

Something here makes no sense. Perhaps you could clear that up for us.

They were to be part of Eretz-Israel

Where was that term mentioned in the LoN covenant or the Mandate?

>>The Palestine Mandate
The Council of the League of Nations:

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and

Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstituting their national home in that country; and

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and

Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and

Whereas His Britannic Majesty has accepted the mandate in respect of Palestine and undertaken to exercise it on behalf of the League of Nations in conformity with the following provisions; and

Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22 (paragraph 8), it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League Of Nations;

confirming the said Mandate, defines its terms as follows: .......<<
The Avalon Project : The Palestine Mandate


It does not specify a jewish state because it is talking about the mandates around the world, not just the Palestinian Mandate. It is the responsibility to divide up and create states in a way that is in the best interest of the future states. Best interest for the jews was to have their own jewish state. Israel was ready, but the palestinian arabs were not, did not agree to the existence of Israel.
>>The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.

The character of the mandate must differ according to the stage of the development of the people, the geographical situation of the territory, its economic conditions and other similar circumstances.

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory. ...<<
ARTICLE 22
Avalon Project - The Covenant of the League of Nations

 

[Beelzebub]

Irgun and Haganah were created to protect the local Jewish communities from being attacked like they have been several times. And where did you read that they milled Arabs and Brits to prevent a state being created by the so called 'Palestinians'??? It was the Jews who accepted the partition plan .

Accepting partition was hardly in good faith. They felt that they could get that foothold and expand it. And partition was not the expectation of the Mandate, just an apparent face-saver for the UN when the European invaders proved they were not going to try to get along with the natives.

Partition was always the mandates intent as they had already partitioned Palestine into Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Transjordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. This left 5% of the original Palestine land for the RESURECTED NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWS. If Husseini had been silenced before wars end then there would not have been any problems.
It was the arab muslims that showed they would not get along with their former slaves and started violent uprisings and terrorist attacks to force the British into giving in to their demands. They then declared open war on the Jews contrary to the UN charter which they were signatories to

I got to your "former slaves" and gave up.

You really must not invent history to suit yourself Phoney.

 

[P F Tinmore]

What's with the deflection Tinmore? And why are you unable to accept simple facts??

What fact are you talking about?

That the citizenship mentioned was that of British mandate Palestinian and not as a citizen of the nation of Palestine.

Not true.

The mandate was not a nation or state. It had no land. It had no citizens.

It was an administration under temporary assignment.

Palestine was the country that it was assigned to.

 

[aris2chat]

Palestine was in fact in a pre-state stage.

The British mandate should have been extended, as they had failed to do what was envisaged in bringing Palestine to statehood, with all the necessary institutions.

This was due to both the interruption of WWII and terrorist groups such as Irgun and Haganah, which had murdered Arabs and British to prevent a state being created by the indigenous people.

Good old Ariel Sharon - you remember him , the war criminal - he had a big hand in that. Partly why the Zionists love him as he was one of their terrorists.

Irgun and Haganah were created to protect the local Jewish communities from being attacked like they have been several times. And where did you read that they milled Arabs and Brits to prevent a state being created by the so called 'Palestinians'??? It was the Jews who accepted the partition plan .

Accepting partition was hardly in good faith. They felt that they could get that foothold and expand it. And partition was not the expectation of the Mandate, just an apparent face-saver for the UN when the European invaders proved they were not going to try to get along with the natives.

The reason Israel expanded was because arabs ran away and left the land in Israel hands when they stopped fighting. Israel later pass a law that all land acquired during a defensive war would become permanent part of Israel. Land abandoned could be developed or appropriated for pubic services. Land is slow to be used as almost every where you dig there are artifices that need to be carefully removed and cataloged by the antiquity department.

 

[Beelzebub]

The reason Israel expanded was because arabs ran away and left the land in Israel hands when they stopped fighting. Israel later pass a law that all land acquired during a defensive war would become permanent part of Israel. Land abandoned could be developed or appropriated for pubic services. Land is slow to be used as almost every where you dig there are artifices that need to be carefully removed and cataloged by the antiquity department.

Very nice.

I suppose Brunei could pass a law that says it owns all land if the nations name starts with an 'F'.
Wouldn't make it legal and wouldn't make it so.

Same with Israel. They can do what they like but International Law will come knock them over the head, and put them right.

 

[Phoenall]

Irgun and Haganah were created to protect the local Jewish communities from being attacked like they have been several times. And where did you read that they milled Arabs and Brits to prevent a state being created by the so called 'Palestinians'??? It was the Jews who accepted the partition plan .

Accepting partition was hardly in good faith. They felt that they could get that foothold and expand it. And partition was not the expectation of the Mandate, just an apparent face-saver for the UN when the European invaders proved they were not going to try to get along with the natives.

They felt like they could expand it?? How? You're making crap up.

And yes their acceptance was in good faith, considering it was half of what they were offered originally.

Looks like you joined this forum to spew the usual Palestinian propaganda.

Actually they ended up with less than a third of the original plan due to the British governments ANTI SEMITISM and JEW HATRED

 

[aris2chat]

Where was that term mentioned in the LoN covenant or the Mandate?

It wasn't as it did not have that name then, it was called the NATIONAL HOME FOR THE JEWS . By the way the Palestinian citizenship referred to was under the mandate making in British mandate Palestinian.


Unless you can find a Palestine passport from before 1988 somewhere ?

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Gaza/al-Khisas/Picture9516.jpg

>>effective jurisdiction was limited to the Gaza Strip<<
crazy mufti name himself president. He had not authority since Gaza was under Egyptian control

1948 trans-jordan had already announced it's intention to annex the west bank. We know how that worked out.

 

[Phoenall]

Toastman:

Zionists were never offered Palestine or Palestine and Trans Jordan as their own exclusive state.

Never.

Map from the league of Nations April 24 1920 showing the proposed JEWISH NATIONAL HOME. Looks very much like Transjordan and what is now known as Palestine and Israel to me and billions of other people.

A question for you and all the other pro Palestinians on here were is the national home of the Saudi Arabian muslims, the Pakistani muslims or the Iranian muslims ?

 

[Phoenall]

et al,

Essentially, our friend "Beelzebub" is correct. While under mandate, the Jewish Agency was never truly made an offer of any portion of the Territory by a competent authority. But then, neither were the Arab Palestinians.

Toastman:

Zionists were never offered Palestine or Palestine and Trans Jordan as their own exclusive state.

Never.

(COMMENT)

The offer only came in the form of GA/RES/181(II), not to be implemented during the Mandate --- but only after termination.

What I chuckled at was the observation that "Palestine was in fact in a pre-state stage." (Sorry "toastman!") While in some ways, this does accurately describe the condition, the Arab Palestine was pandering a "pre-state" condition for 8 Centuries or more; depending on how deep the perspective runs. Even today, the November 1988 State of Palestine is barely able to function as an autonomously run entity. And it is not because of the Israeli Occupation. As I said, the Japanese and Germans both, were able to reinitialize their states under occupation and have become two of the most powerful and influential nations on the planet.

Most Respectfully,
R

I agree.

However, the United Nations Mandate to bring Palestine to statehood after long occupation by the Ottoman Empire was more a pregnancy than a wished for tryst.

As to running Palestine now, as a Post War Germany or Japan: Palestine is more akin to an open prison. So your claim that they have the same opportunity is somewhat disingenuous.

can you provide a link to the UN mandate and were it says that it was to bring Palestine to statehood.

 

[aris2chat]

Toastman:

Zionists were never offered Palestine or Palestine and Trans Jordan as their own exclusive state.

Never.

Map from the league of Nations April 24 1920 showing the proposed JEWISH NATIONAL HOME. Looks very much like Transjordan and what is now known as Palestine and Israel to me and billions of other people.

A question for you and all the other pro Palestinians on here were is the national home of the Saudi Arabian muslims, the Pakistani muslims or the Iranian muslims ?

greater israel was in theory the lands from Genesis 15:18-21
there was expected to be give and take a bit. British took a lot for the arabs to make jordan and what was to be a palestinian state. Jordan and egypt got the WB and gaza. Israel took the rest.

 

[Phoenall]

Why do you say "blood libels" Phoney?

Because the original one was in regards to Jews making Passover bread with the blood of Christian babies. He instigated the Hebron riots that resulted in the mass murder of many Jews with a series of "blood libels". Or would you prefer I called them ISLAMONAZI LIES AND RACISM

 

[Phoenall]

Yep. You could be right.

Can you put your finger on what was done wrong?

I can the British did not take out Hussieni when they had the chance, instead they tried to reason with him and ended up losing

That question wasn't to you Phoney.
But you missed the question which was.

Maybe you can string together something more meaningful than the above ... ?

No the question was the one posed above

Can you put your finger on what was done wrong?

 

[toastman]

What fact are you talking about?

That the citizenship mentioned was that of British mandate Palestinian and not as a citizen of the nation of Palestine.

Not true.

The mandate was not a nation or state. It had no land. It had no citizens.

It was an administration under temporary assignment.

Palestine was the country that it was assigned to.

Palestine was a TERRITORY that it was assigned to.

Palestine only became a country in 1988.

Why must this be repeated to you over and over?

 

[Beelzebub]

The question isn't in question toast.

It the questionee. Who is Not you.

It was to PF Tinmore.
You are not an alias of him are you?

There was another one for you, but I have lost interest in your input.

 

[aris2chat]

Why do you say "blood libels" Phoney?

Because the original one was in regards to Jews making Passover bread with the blood of Christian babies. He instigated the Hebron riots that resulted in the mass murder of many Jews with a series of "blood libels". Or would you prefer I called them ISLAMONAZI LIES AND RACISM

Blood libel: a false, incendiary claim against Jews

He used the term because that is what they are.

 

[Beelzebub]

Why do you say "blood libels" Phoney?

Because the original one was in regards to Jews making Passover bread with the blood of Christian babies. He instigated the Hebron riots that resulted in the mass murder of many Jews with a series of "blood libels". Or would you prefer I called them ISLAMONAZI LIES AND RACISM

Blood libel: a false, incendiary claim against Jews

He used the term because that is what they are.

Again: you presume to answer for another.
Is he incapacitated?
Did he sign over power of attorney to you?
Are you claiming to be a mind reader or his alias?

Your answer is piss poor anyway, thanks, so I will wait for Phoneys explanation.

 

[Beelzebub]

Why do you say "blood libels" Phoney?

Because the original one was in regards to Jews making Passover bread with the blood of Christian babies. He instigated the Hebron riots that resulted in the mass murder of many Jews with a series of "blood libels". Or would you prefer I called them ISLAMONAZI LIES AND RACISM

So how do you define a 'Blood' liable then?

It seems it needs to have nothing at all to do with blood, if it stretches to this. As to liable: are you sure? Liable is a legal term, and is usually actionable.

 

[toastman]

The question isn't in question toast.

It the questionee. Who is Not you.

It was to PF Tinmore.
You are not an alias of him are you?

There was another one for you, but I have lost interest in your input.

Geez, whining again?

 

[toastman]

Why do you say "blood libels" Phoney?

Because the original one was in regards to Jews making Passover bread with the blood of Christian babies. He instigated the Hebron riots that resulted in the mass murder of many Jews with a series of "blood libels". Or would you prefer I called them ISLAMONAZI LIES AND RACISM

So how do you define a 'Blood' liable then?

It seems it needs to have nothing at all to do with blood, if it stretches to this. As to liable: are you sure? Liable is a legal term, and is usually actionable.

What does it say right under Phoenals username??