Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
Um k. Been on-site here for quite a while, not so secret actually to theologians:
Apocrypha: Secret gospel of mark : Interfaith
Apocrypha: Secret gospel of mark : Interfaith
Jesus had gay encounter...Missing passages in book of Mark
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In 1980, the authenticity of the letter was given a strong “vote of confidence” by the scholarly community when the letter was reprinted in the standard edition of the works of Clement of Alexandria.1 Accepting Smith’s identification of the letter as genuine, the editors of this definitive compilation added the letter to the accepted canon of Clement’s works. Source: Otto Stählin and Ursula Treu, Clemens Alexandrinus, vol. 4.1: Register, 2d ed. (Berlin: Akademie-Verlag, 1980), XVII–XVIII. ...
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Thank you for the link, Delta.
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Translation by Morton Smith:
From the letters of the most holy Clement, the author of the Stromateis. To Theodore.
You did well in silencing the unspeakable teachings of the Carpocratians. For these are the “wandering stars” referred to in the prophecy, who wander from the narrow road of the commandments into a boundless abyss of the carnal and bodily sins. For, priding themselves in knowledge, as they say, “of the deep things of Satan,” they do not know that they are casting themselves away into “the nether world of the darkness” of falsity, and, boasting that they are free, they have become slaves of servile desires. Such men are to be opposed in all ways and altogether. For, even if they should say something true, one who loves the truth should not, even so, agree with them. For not all true things are the truth, nor should that truth which merely seems true according to human opinions be preferred to the true truth, that according to the faith.
Now of the things they keep saying about the divinely inspired Gospel according to Mark, some are altogether falsifications, and others, even if they do contain some true elements, nevertheless are not reported truly. For the true things being mixed with inventions, are falsified, so that, as the saying goes, even the salt loses its savor.
As for Mark, then, during Peter’s stay in Rome he wrote an account of the Lord’s doings, not, however, declaring all of them, nor yet hinting at the secret ones, but selecting what he thought most useful for increasing the faith of those who were being instructed. But when Peter died a martyr, Mark came over to Alexandria, bringing both his own notes and those of Peter, from which he transferred to his former book the things suitable to whatever makes for progress toward knowledge. Thus he composed a more spiritual Gospel for the use of those who were being perfected. Nevertheless, he yet did not divulge the things not to be uttered, nor did he write down the hierophantic teaching of the Lord, but to the stories already written he added yet others and, moreover, brought in certain sayings of which he knew the interpretation would, as a mystagogue, lead the hearers into the innermost sanctuary of that truth hidden by seven veils. Thus, in sum, he prepared matters, neither grudgingly nor incautiously, in my opinion, and, dying, he left his composition to the church in Alexandria, where it even yet is most carefully guarded, being read only to those who are being initiated into the great mysteries.
But since the foul demons are always devising destruction for the race of men, Carpocrates, instructed by them and using deceitful arts, so enslaved a certain presbyter of the church in Alexandria that he got from him a copy of the secret Gospel, which he both interpreted according to his blasphemous and carnal doctrine and, moreover, polluted, mixing with the spotless and holy words utterly shameless lies. Frorn this mixture is drawn off the teaching of the Carpocratians.
To them, therefore, as I said above, one must never give way; nor, when they put forward their falsifications, should one concede that the secret Gospel is by Mark, but should even deny it on oath. For, “Not all true things are to be said to all men.” For this reason the Wisdom of God, through Solomon, advises, “Answer the fool from his folly,” teaching that the light of the truth should be hidden from those who are mentally blind. Again it says, “From him who has not shall be taken away,” and, “Let the fool walk in darkness.” But we are “children of light,” having been illuminated by “the dayspring” of the spirit of the Lord “from on high,” and “Where the Spirit of the Lord is,” it says, “there is liberty,” for “All things are pure to the pure.”
To you, therefore, I shall not hesitate to answer the questions you have asked, refuting the falsifications by the very words of the Gospel. For example, after ,”And they were in the road going up to Jerusalem,” and what follows, until “After three days he shall arise,” the secret Gospel brings the following material word for word:
“And they come into Bethany. And a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And, coming, she prostrated herself before Jesus and says to him, ‘Son of David, have mercy on me.’ But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus, being angered, went off with her into the garden where the tomb was, and straightway a great cry was heard from the tomb. And going near Jesus rolled away the stone from the door of the tomb. And straightway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tornb they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth comes to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan.”
After these words follows the text, “And James and John come to him,” and all that section. But “naked man with naked man,” and the other things about which you wrote, are not found.
And after the words, “And he comes into Jericho,” the secret Gospel adds only,
“And the sister of the youth whom Jesus loved and his mother and Salome were there, and Jesus did not receive them.”
But the many other things about which you wrote both seem to be and are falsifications.
Now the true explanation and that which accords with the true philosophy…
[Here the text abruptly stops in the middle of the page]
Apocrypha: Secret gospel of mark : Interfaith
From the letters of the most holy Clement, the author of the Stromateis. To Theodore.
You did well in silencing the unspeakable teachings of the Carpocratians. For these are the “wandering stars” referred to in the prophecy, who wander from the narrow road of the commandments into a boundless abyss of the carnal and bodily sins. For, priding themselves in knowledge, as they say, “of the deep things of Satan,” they do not know that they are casting themselves away into “the nether world of the darkness” of falsity, and, boasting that they are free, they have become slaves of servile desires. Such men are to be opposed in all ways and altogether. For, even if they should say something true, one who loves the truth should not, even so, agree with them. For not all true things are the truth, nor should that truth which merely seems true according to human opinions be preferred to the true truth, that according to the faith.
Now of the things they keep saying about the divinely inspired Gospel according to Mark, some are altogether falsifications, and others, even if they do contain some true elements, nevertheless are not reported truly. For the true things being mixed with inventions, are falsified, so that, as the saying goes, even the salt loses its savor.
As for Mark, then, during Peter’s stay in Rome he wrote an account of the Lord’s doings, not, however, declaring all of them, nor yet hinting at the secret ones, but selecting what he thought most useful for increasing the faith of those who were being instructed. But when Peter died a martyr, Mark came over to Alexandria, bringing both his own notes and those of Peter, from which he transferred to his former book the things suitable to whatever makes for progress toward knowledge. Thus he composed a more spiritual Gospel for the use of those who were being perfected. Nevertheless, he yet did not divulge the things not to be uttered, nor did he write down the hierophantic teaching of the Lord, but to the stories already written he added yet others and, moreover, brought in certain sayings of which he knew the interpretation would, as a mystagogue, lead the hearers into the innermost sanctuary of that truth hidden by seven veils. Thus, in sum, he prepared matters, neither grudgingly nor incautiously, in my opinion, and, dying, he left his composition to the church in Alexandria, where it even yet is most carefully guarded, being read only to those who are being initiated into the great mysteries.
But since the foul demons are always devising destruction for the race of men, Carpocrates, instructed by them and using deceitful arts, so enslaved a certain presbyter of the church in Alexandria that he got from him a copy of the secret Gospel, which he both interpreted according to his blasphemous and carnal doctrine and, moreover, polluted, mixing with the spotless and holy words utterly shameless lies. Frorn this mixture is drawn off the teaching of the Carpocratians.
To them, therefore, as I said above, one must never give way; nor, when they put forward their falsifications, should one concede that the secret Gospel is by Mark, but should even deny it on oath. For, “Not all true things are to be said to all men.” For this reason the Wisdom of God, through Solomon, advises, “Answer the fool from his folly,” teaching that the light of the truth should be hidden from those who are mentally blind. Again it says, “From him who has not shall be taken away,” and, “Let the fool walk in darkness.” But we are “children of light,” having been illuminated by “the dayspring” of the spirit of the Lord “from on high,” and “Where the Spirit of the Lord is,” it says, “there is liberty,” for “All things are pure to the pure.”
To you, therefore, I shall not hesitate to answer the questions you have asked, refuting the falsifications by the very words of the Gospel. For example, after ,”And they were in the road going up to Jerusalem,” and what follows, until “After three days he shall arise,” the secret Gospel brings the following material word for word:
“And they come into Bethany. And a certain woman whose brother had died was there. And, coming, she prostrated herself before Jesus and says to him, ‘Son of David, have mercy on me.’ But the disciples rebuked her. And Jesus, being angered, went off with her into the garden where the tomb was, and straightway a great cry was heard from the tomb. And going near Jesus rolled away the stone from the door of the tomb. And straightway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him. And going out of the tornb they came into the house of the youth, for he was rich. And after six days Jesus told him what to do and in the evening the youth comes to him, wearing a linen cloth over his naked body. And he remained with him that night, for Jesus taught him the mystery of the kingdom of God. And thence, arising, he returned to the other side of the Jordan.”
After these words follows the text, “And James and John come to him,” and all that section. But “naked man with naked man,” and the other things about which you wrote, are not found.
And after the words, “And he comes into Jericho,” the secret Gospel adds only,
“And the sister of the youth whom Jesus loved and his mother and Salome were there, and Jesus did not receive them.”
But the many other things about which you wrote both seem to be and are falsifications.
Now the true explanation and that which accords with the true philosophy…
[Here the text abruptly stops in the middle of the page]
Apocrypha: Secret gospel of mark : Interfaith
Bumberclyde
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That gay blade jesus already died on the cross for our sins , so no one is ever going to hell, and to prove it, he had his shlong hanging out the whole time while on the cross. The diaper thing you see in pictures is another myth.
Bumberclyde
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Not until the NT was written several hundred years later.
Iceweasel
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Who knows how authentic any of it is, a lot of books were floating around and gnosticism was prevalent back in the day. The "secret" Mark is a lot like other gnostic "secret" works. None of it has anything to do with homosexuality though. Gays see the words "naked" or men being together and their minds fill in a lot of gaps.
Secret Mark
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Jesus gave two great commandments: The first was love thy god with all thy heart and the second was love thy neighbour as thyself. This was a sacrament of love, symbolic of transforming sexual energy into healing, creativity, and inner peace.
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The letter did go through rigorous scrutiny by the scholarly community with respect to authenticity and was given a strong vote of confidence.
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Iceweasel
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The letter refers to a gnostic version of Mark, authentic or not, and doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality, sex in general or Jesus' love life.
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The letter does not suggest Jesus was a homosexual but, taken in its entirety, it does suggest Jesus may have had a sexual encounter with another man.
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Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
Too easy to interpret Scriptures however you like. If it doesn't say explicitly, don't believe it. Bible gets very specific about many things, shouldn't be any need to 'read between the lines.'
Iceweasel
Diamond Member
That's in your mind, not in the letter.
Iceweasel
Diamond Member
No, it's a gnostic version talking about a gnostic encounter. No gnostic works were included in the canon. You're on a fishing expedition.
Jesus gave two great commandments: The first was love thy god with all thy heart and the second was love thy neighbour as thyself. This was a sacrament of love, symbolic of transforming sexual energy into healing, creativity, and inner peace.
Damn, If Jesus was some sort of peace and love free spirit hippie type I'd sure hate to be a republican when he shows up and finds out what they have been doing in his name for the past who knows how long.....
Bumberclyde
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Delta4Embassy
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The Gnostics were the first true Christians. Catholics came along and wiped them out.
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It has nothing to do with homosexuality but it does suggest there may have been a possibility Jesus had a gay encounter. Do you have anything to suggest Jesus' had a gay gladiator brother, as you mentioned earlier, or is it in your mind?
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- #39
There is no fishing expedition. I did not write the articles. The implication is there. There is a possibility Jesus had a gay encounter. And now you tell me he had a gay half brother who was a gladiator. LOL
To address your original question, if what is suggested by the article is true then either the law of God is not to be understood or applied literally or Jesus was a nut job.
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