Iwo Jima secured this day March 16, 1945

[whitehall]

The island is only about 2 miles by 4 miles and it took the lives of almost 7,000 Marines in a month of fighting from Feb. 14 to March 16 1945. It's said that FDR gasped when he was shown the casualty list.

 

[Rambunctious]

 

[Sunni Man]

My uncle was a battle hardened Marine that fought on Iwo Jima.
Previously he fought on Guadalcanal surviving savage banzai attacks.
He hated the Japanese all his life and would sometimes curse about "the son's of Tojo" when he was upset.
...

 

[whitehall]

Lots of controversy about the Flag Raising. It was just a work party to put up the 2nd Flag that could be seen by the ships and photographer Joe Rosenthal snapped a quick picture and didn't bother to take the names of the Marines. Half of them would be killed before the island was secured. It's arguably the most duplicated photo in history.

 

[theHawk]

My grandfather was there.
He recalled the first flag raising and everyone cheering. He said no one paid attention to the second one that became famous. He was drafted when he was 19 and sent there. He got a wound from a mortar shell and that was it, got his Purple Heart and married my grandma when he got back.

 

[whitehall]

Lots of survival stories from the legacy of Marines who fought on the stinking island but 7,000 Marines were killed in action in a freaking month to secure an island that we could have bypassed and left to starve. What accounts for the incredible casualties in the debacle where "uncommon valor was a common virtue"? Bad intel?

 

[Mushroom]

What accounts for the incredible casualties in the debacle where "uncommon valor was a common virtue"?

They needed the air base.

Iwo Jima was on the route that our bombers took from the Mariana Islands to Japan. And in case an aircraft sustained battle damage or was low on fuel due to adverse winds, that was the best place for them to put down for repairs. In fact, the battle was still raging when the first bombers made emergency landings on the air field, under sniper fire.

Yes, over 7,000 were killed. But over 25,000 were then saved, as they could land their damaged bombers and have them repaired, instead of crashing into the ocean where they likely would have been killed.

Photo of the first B-29 to make an emergency landing on Iwo Jima on 4 March 1945. By 26 March, 36 B-29s had made emergency landings at the airfield. There were over 2,000 emergency landing on the airfield before the end of the war, each B-29 had a crew of 11.

 

[whitehall]

They needed the air base.

Iwo Jima was on the route that our bombers took from the Mariana Islands to Japan. And in case an aircraft sustained battle damage or was low on fuel due to adverse winds, that was the best place for them to put down for repairs. In fact, the battle was still raging when the first bombers made emergency landings on the air field, under sniper fire.

Yes, over 7,000 were killed. But over 25,000 were then saved, as they could land their damaged bombers and have them repaired, instead of crashing into the ocean where they likely would have been killed.

Photo of the first B-29 to make an emergency landing on Iwo Jima on 4 March 1945. By 26 March, 36 B-29s had made emergency landings at the airfield. There were over 2,000 emergency landing on the airfield before the end of the war, each B-29 had a crew of 11.

Who in their right mind would trade 7,000 Marines for an airfield? Intel must have known that the Japanese had fortified the island for forty years and every square inch was bracketed with machne gun and/or mortar fire. The air base was intended to be used by fighter planes to cover the bombing raids. Crippled bombers were doing fine landing in friendly China at the time and it was probably more dangerous to send them out to sea looking for a 2x4 tiny island. Government propaganda was quick to justify the deaths of 7,000 Marines and 20,000 wounded by changing the mission after the fact.

 

[Sunni Man]

Who in their right mind would trade 7,000 Marines for an airfield? Intel must have known that the Japanese had fortified the island for forty years and every square inch was bracketed with machne gun and/or mortar fire. The air base was intended to be used by fighter planes to cover the bombing raids. Crippled bombers were doing fine landing in friendly China at the time and it was probably more dangerous to send them out to sea looking for a 2x4 tiny island. Government propaganda was quick to justify the deaths of 7,000 Marines and 20,000 wounded by changing the mission after the fact.

You have no idea what you're talking about.
Try looking at a map. ...

 

[whitehall]

You have no idea what you're talking about.
Try looking at a map. ...

The map shows a 4 mile by 2 mile dot in the ocean. What else should I look for? The U.S. traded 7,000 Marines for a crappy island that they could have bypassed.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The map shows a 4 mile by 2 mile dot in the ocean. What else should I look for? The U.S. traded 7,000 Marines for a crappy island that they could have bypassed.

If it were bypassed it would then be used to attack us from behind.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

When I was stationed on Okinawa we did a battle study trip to Iwo Jima. Just trying to walk through that sand on the beach in nothing but boots and cammis was hard, I cannot imagine trying to do it with a full combat load.

I still have my jar of black sand from that trip.

 

[Sunni Man]

Crippled bombers were doing fine landing in friendly China at the time and it was probably more dangerous to send them out to sea looking for a 2x4 tiny island.

^^^^ Exhibit "A" that you don't have a clue and are talking out your ass. ...

 

[DudleySmith]

The map shows a 4 mile by 2 mile dot in the ocean. What else should I look for? The U.S. traded 7,000 Marines for a crappy island that they could have bypassed.

Ever heard of radio beacons? Or radios for that matter? Besides, the average 12 year old who took the Boy Scouts merit badge program in navigation and orienteering could find it or at least get close to it by merely knowing its latitude and longitude position and a fairly clear night or just a bright moon and the date.

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[Sunni Man]

The island of Saipan was the main airfield where B-29's took off from to bomb Japan.
Saipan is located 2,100 miles from the Japanese mainland. So if a B-29 was battle damaged from flack or attacked by Zero fighters on the return flight. The odds of a crippled B-29 making it all the way back the 2,100 miles to Saipan was pretty slim. And ditching in the vast Pacific ocean took the lives of many airmen.
Iwo Jima is located directly between Saipan and Japan, and is only 750 miles from the Japanese mainland. Thus building an emergency air strip for crippled B-29's that couldn't make it back to Saipan to land, saved the lives of countless airmen.

 

[Sunni Man]

A disadvantage for the B-29 bomber was that no American fighter plane had the ability to escort the long range bomber the entire 2,100 miles from Saipan to the Japanese mainland and back. Leaving the B-29 vulnerable to attack by Zero fighter pilots who knew they would be unescorted and easy prey to shoot down.
Most people don't realize that Iwo Jima was also used as an airfield for American fighter planes like the P-51 Mustang and P-38 Lightning which were long range fighters, and could easily escort and protect the B-29 bombers from enemy fighter planes all the way from Iwo Jima to Japan and back.

 

[Mushroom]

Intel must have known that the Japanese had fortified the island for forty years and every square inch was bracketed with machne gun and/or mortar fire. The air base was intended to be used by fighter planes to cover the bombing raids.

This shows how wrong you are. Completely and utterly wrong.

First of all, they had not been "fortifying it for 40 years". All there was on the island prior to the middle of 1944 was some sugar cane plantations, a few sulfur mines, and a small Navy base. It had about 1,000 people, and a single police officer. The buildup did not start until the middle of 1944. Hell, Letters from Iwo Jima specifically covers a lot of that phase, there were no defenses at all on the island until 1944.

And no, the island was never to be used by fighter planes. The longest combat range of any US Fighter during the war was the P-51, at 750 miles. The distance from Iwo Jima to Tokyo was... 750 miles. For escorting bombers, that island would have been useless as it was at the extreme edge of their capability, and they could only have done combat for around 5-10 minutes before turning around and returning or they would have run out of fuel.

No, the next major island was the one they needed for a fighter base. That was Okinawa. That is because the first part of Operation Downfall was Operation Olympic, the taking of Kyushu Island. And the distance from Kadena Air Base to Kyushu is 550 miles. That would allow fighters to operate as escorts, or even perform air to mud missions and still have the fuel to loiter, and return safely. You never conduct operations with aircraft at the absolute edge of their combat capabilities. Unless you are doing something like ambushing a highly ranked Admiral.

Please, try doing research instead of simply making things up as you go along. Otherwise people who actually know about such things will show you are wrong every time.

 

[Mushroom]

Most people don't realize that Iwo Jima was also used as an airfield for American fighter planes like the P-51 Mustang and P-38 Lightning which were long range fighters, and could easily escort and protect the B-29 bombers from Iwo Jima to Japan and back.

Nope to both. They could only provide escorts for part of the way, as the 750 mile distance was the absolute edge of the range for the P-51, and it exceeded the range of the P-38.

However, it was used to cover at least part of the way, but once they got past around 600 miles out the bombers were on their own. It also extended the coverage by aircraft for trying to locate Japanese ships.

 

[Sunni Man]

This shows how wrong you are. Completely and utterly wrong.

First of all, they had not been "fortifying it for 40 years". All there was on the island prior to the middle of 1944 was some sugar cane plantations, a few sulfur mines, and a small Navy base. It had about 1,000 people, and a single police officer. The buildup did not start until the middle of 1944. Hell, Letters from Iwo Jima specifically covers a lot of that phase, there were no defenses at all on the island until 1944.

And no, the island was never to be used by fighter planes. The longest combat range of any US Fighter during the war was the P-51, at 750 miles. The distance from Iwo Jima to Tokyo was... 750 miles. For escorting bombers, that island would have been useless as it was at the extreme edge of their capability, and they could only have done combat for around 5-10 minutes before turning around and returning or they would have run out of fuel.

No, the next major island was the one they needed for a fighter base. That was Okinawa. That is because the first part of Operation Downfall was Operation Olympic, the taking of Kyushu Island. And the distance from Kadena Air Base to Kyushu is 550 miles. That would allow fighters to operate as escorts, or even perform air to mud missions and still have the fuel to loiter, and return safely. You never conduct operations with aircraft at the absolute edge of their combat capabilities. Unless you are doing something like ambushing a highly ranked Admiral.

Please, try doing research instead of simply making things up as you go along. Otherwise people who actually know about such things will show you are wrong every time.

Good post but I disagree over a couple of items.
Both the P-51 and P-38 could effectively double their flying range with the use of drop tanks to carry extra fuel. Especially the P-38 which could extend its 1,350 mile range to an astonishing 2,600 mile range with dual drop tanks. Thus giving them the range to escort B-29's to Japan.

"Also groups and squadrons (of B-29's) deployed to Okinawa assigned to Eighth Air Force, in July/August 1945 but did not engage in combat operations."

List of Boeing B-29 Superfortress operators - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mushroom]

Both the P-51 and P-38 could effectively double their flying range with the use of drop tanks to carry extra fuel. Especially the P-38 which could extend its 1,350 mile range to an astonishing 2,600 range with dual drop tanks. Thus giving them the range to escort B-29's to Japan.

"Also groups and squadrons (of B-29's) deployed to Okinawa assigned to Eighth Air Force, in July/August 1945 but did not engage in combat operations."

Yes, that is the P-38E. It had drop tanks for extended range, but it also had no guns. That was a model made for reconnaissance, and would have been doing BDA missions.

Those were never intended for combat, they were made as light as possible to extend their range. The guns in these models were replaced with cameras.

And the build-up of aircraft on Okinawa was in preparation for Operation Olympic. X-Day was expected to be 1 November, so they were trying to move as many aircraft to the island as fast as they could. For bombers, that was for Operation Olympic, not for strategic bombing. Most of the targets were on the main island of Honshu, so approaching from the south-east made sense as that was open ocean. This would have given the Japanese little to no warning that the bombers were approaching. Flying from Okinawa they would have seen them flown over Kyushu, so Japan could have had fighters waiting to ambush them before they reached their target.