It's All Over

[MHunterB]

[MENTION=35495]Capstone[/MENTION]: Here's your problem - HAMAS is not a rock.

Let me explain. The first time my son was allowed to play outside by himself (I was watching from the house), he tried 'skipping' a rock between the front and rear wheels of a van going down the street. He bolted inside and disappeared moments before my distressed neighbor came to the door to tell me about it..... I explained to the boy that he was responsible for whatever the rock did, because his hand was on it last.

If Israel is still to be held responsible for whatever HAMAS does - then HAMAS must be like a rock, passive and without volition. In which case, HAMAS ought not to be allowed out in the world without a guardian.

If HAMAS is not like a rock, then what HAMAS does NOW is the responsibility of HAMAS - and not anyone else.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinians to leave Cairo on Sunday unless Israel resumes Gaza talks

CAIRO (Reuters) - Palestinian negotiators will leave Cairo on Sunday unless Israel agrees to return to Egyptian-mediated negotiations to end the war in Gaza, senior delegation member Moussa Abu Marzouk said.

"Within the next 24 hours, the delegation's presence in Egypt will be determined," Abu Marzouk, the deputy chairman of Hamas' political bureau, told Reuters in an interview late on Saturday at the delegation's hotel near the Cairo airport.

Palestinians to leave Cairo on Sunday unless Israel resumes Gaza talks

 

[P F Tinmore]

But it is not over yet.
----------------
Pro-Palestinian activists march to UN headquarters

NEW YORK (AP) — A sea of Palestinians and their sympathizers lined Manhattan streets Saturday, marching to the United Nations and shouting that Israel's response to missile attacks was genocide that took children's lives.

Pro-Palestinian activists march to UN headquarters
---------------------
Third mass protest for Gaza in a month in London

London (AFP) - Tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian demonstrators marched through central London on Saturday, demanding Britain take a tougher line against Israel over its military assault on Gaza.

The Palestinian Solidarity Campaign said 150,000 people attended the march, the third major demonstration for Gaza in London in the past four weeks.

Protesters packed the main shopping artery of Oxford Street, marching to the US embassy and on to Hyde Park, many of them chanting "Free, Free Palestine" and holding up banners saying "UK - Stop Arming Israel".

There were also fresh protests in Paris, which has seen several demonstrations related to the war in recent weeks.

Third mass protest for Gaza in a month in London

 

[I.P.Freely]

No, it was to disband and disarm Hamas. Only stopping the rocket firing ability doesn't help. Destroying Hamas is the only way to peace.[/QUOTE [MENTION=48190]Crystalclear[/MENTION], unfortunately Hamas seem as strong as ever, the Palestinian people are mainly still supporting them and they have just claimed they are going to increase the number of rockets fired into Israel.67 dead and hundreds seriously injured for what?
Gaza conflict: Hamas far from disabled after weeks of fighting | World news | The Guardian

If they do then Israel will just pound gaza from afar until it is a smoking ruin, and the UN will not do a thing. The world will see that hamas has no intention of stopping the violence and the death toll of gazan terrorists will rise until none are left to fire the rockets. The world can watch were the rockets are being fired from on Google Earth in live action, and see that hamas is using civilian areas to engage in war. The ICC will start to issue arrest warrants for every hamas official on charges of war crimes and crimes against humanity until the Palestinians agree to talks on peace and mutual borders.

I hope the ICC does investigate and like the Balkans war, the arrest warrants will fall on all sides.How many times has Israel failed in Gaza using military might? The world accepts the terrorist fires rockets, since they landed in Israel how many have died. The majority of the world see's almost 2000 dead Palestinians, 75% civilians and 420 children.The world see's this is the fourth war in a decade in Gaza, when will the fifth be ?. I ask again what has been achieved for the death of 67 and the hundreds of seriously injured?

 

[I.P.Freely]

I thought the invasion was to stop the terrorists ability to fire rockets?

No, you thought wrong. The ability to deal with the rockets is for the air force.

The ground invasion was to deal with the terrorists themselves and the tunnles.

not according to this.
Israel starts ground operation in Gaza to stop Hamas rockets

 

[Rehmani]

http://hsrd.yahoo.com/_ylt=AhGPHTr2...5Lmh0bWw-/RS=^ADARXVxEq7s77q6UWvmUY9419DPQhk-

The gloves are off. Gaza and its hapless "refugees" will be bulldozed. Sorry. Wait ... no I'm not.

It is good that you break yourself other vise same thing would happen to you.

 

[I.P.Freely]

But it is not over yet.
----------------
Pro-Palestinian activists march to UN headquarters

NEW YORK (AP) — A sea of Palestinians and their sympathizers lined Manhattan streets Saturday, marching to the United Nations and shouting that Israel's response to missile attacks was genocide that took children's lives.

Pro-Palestinian activists march to UN headquarters
---------------------
Third mass protest for Gaza in a month in London

London (AFP) - Tens of thousands of pro-Palestinian demonstrators marched through central London on Saturday, demanding Britain take a tougher line against Israel over its military assault on Gaza.

The Palestinian Solidarity Campaign said 150,000 people attended the march, the third major demonstration for Gaza in London in the past four weeks.

Protesters packed the main shopping artery of Oxford Street, marching to the US embassy and on to Hyde Park, many of them chanting "Free, Free Palestine" and holding up banners saying "UK - Stop Arming Israel".

There were also fresh protests in Paris, which has seen several demonstrations related to the war in recent weeks.

Third mass protest for Gaza in a month in London

My relatives, North London Jews marched and they were surprised the number of Jews that were involved, My two relatives in Tel Aviv thankfully are staying at home for fear of the right wing mobs, who they call the Black Shirts after Mosley's fascist thugs.
Gaza protests: rallies in UK and around the world call for end of conflict | World news | The Observer

 

[Crystalclear]

I thought the invasion was to stop the terrorists ability to fire rockets?

No, you thought wrong. The ability to deal with the rockets is for the air force.



The ground invasion was to deal with the terrorists themselves and the tunnles.

not according to this.

Israel starts ground operation in Gaza to stop Hamas rockets

According to this it is:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/israel-targets-tunnels-gaza-ground-invasion

 

[I.P.Freely]

No, you thought wrong. The ability to deal with the rockets is for the air force.



The ground invasion was to deal with the terrorists themselves and the tunnles.

not according to this.

Israel starts ground operation in Gaza to stop Hamas rockets

According to this it is:

Israel targets 'terror tunnels' in Gaza ground invasion | World news | The Guardian[/QUOTE [MENTION=48190]Crystalclear[/MENTION], thats a fail as well. To quote Lipush the Israeli people do not believe all the tunnels have been destroyed.So what has this 4th invasion in a decade achieved?

 

[Phoenall]

not according to this.

Israel starts ground operation in Gaza to stop Hamas rockets

According to this it is:

Israel targets 'terror tunnels' in Gaza ground invasion | World news | The Guardian[/QUOTE [MENTION=48190]Crystalclear[/MENTION], thats a fail as well. To quote Lipush the Israeli people do not believe all the tunnels have been destroyed.So what has this 4th invasion in a decade achieved?

2,000 less ISLAMONAZI terrorists to worry about for starters, and a warning to hamas of what they can expect if they try attacking again

 

[Crystalclear]

not according to this.



Israel starts ground operation in Gaza to stop Hamas rockets

According to this it is:



Israel targets 'terror tunnels' in Gaza ground invasion | World news | The Guardian[/QUOTE [MENTION=48190]Crystalclear[/MENTION], thats a fail as well. To quote Lipush the Israeli people do not believe all the tunnels have been destroyed.So what has this 4th invasion in a decade achieved?

A weaker Hamas, most tunnels are destroyed and Hamas lost a lot of their weapons. The terrorist threat is neutralized.
That is what the invasion has achieved. So, it is a succesful operation.

 

[I.P.Freely]

According to this it is:



Israel targets 'terror tunnels' in Gaza ground invasion | World news | The Guardian[/QUOTE [MENTION=48190]Crystalclear[/MENTION], thats a fail as well. To quote Lipush the Israeli people do not believe all the tunnels have been destroyed.So what has this 4th invasion in a decade achieved?

@Crystalclear The classic Dubya "Mission Accomplished" . So the previous 3 invasions were failures?



A weaker Hamas, most tunnels are destroyed and Hamas lost a lot of their weapons. The terrorist threat is neutralized.
That is what the invasion has achieved. So, it is a succesful operation.

@Crystalclear.The classic Dubya "Mission Accomplished"

So the previous three invasions were failures because they did not weaken Hamas?

The only way the terrorist organisation Hamas can be weakened terminally is by the Palestinian people. This does not look likely when Israel keeps killing innocent men, women and children.

It took the British and Irish people many decades of pain before they realised violence will not work.

The last penultimate paragraph of this peace gives the reason. http://www.smh.com.au/comment/why-israel-lost-the-war-in-gaza-20140808-101ruh.html

 

[Crystalclear]

@Crystalclear The classic Dubya "Mission Accomplished" . So the previous 3 invasions were failures?



A weaker Hamas, most tunnels are destroyed and Hamas lost a lot of their weapons. The terrorist threat is neutralized.
That is what the invasion has achieved. So, it is a succesful operation.

@Crystalclear.The classic Dubya "Mission Accomplished"

So the previous three invasions were failures because they did not weaken Hamas?

The only way the terrorist organisation Hamas can be weakened terminally is by the Palestinian people. This does not look likely when Israel keeps killing innocent men, women and children.

It took the British and Irish people many decades of pain before they realised violence will not work.

The last penultimate paragraph of this peace gives the reason. http://www.smh.com.au/comment/why-israel-lost-the-war-in-gaza-20140808-101ruh.html

The problem is that the Palestinian people are not going to remove Hamas, which means that Israel should do the job.
What the people in Gaza don't understand is that when they remove Hamas Israel will stop the operation.

 

[I.P.Freely]

@Crystalclear.The classic Dubya "Mission Accomplished"

So the previous three invasions were failures because they did not weaken Hamas?

The only way the terrorist organisation Hamas can be weakened terminally is by the Palestinian people. This does not look likely when Israel keeps killing innocent men, women and children.

It took the British and Irish people many decades of pain before they realised violence will not work.

The last penultimate paragraph of this peace gives the reason. Why Israel lost the war in Gaza

The problem is that the Palestinian people are not going to remove Hamas, which means that Israel should do the job.
What the people in Gaza don't understand is that when they remove Hamas Israel will stop the operation.

but I repeat this is the fourth attempt to remove terrorists from Gaza with little success, so what are you going to do differently to remove the terrorists?
Have you any proof that the people of Gaza cannot equate the end of Hamas to the end of hostilities?

 

[SAYIT]

You mistakenly assume Israel can stop Palestinians from organizing. If that was true, there would be no Islamic Jihad, no al-Aqsa Brigade, no DFLP, no PRC, no PFLP, no...

Well, apparently, you mistakenly assume that the Palestinians can organize anything autonomously -- that is, without significant interference and/or hands-on manipulation by the Israeli government. Recent history has proven you wrong.

Israel's hand in helping to establish and maintain Hamas as the de facto Palestinian government went well beyond allowing it to fund its social programs. In fact, prior to that, they released the founder of Hamas from his life sentence, so that he could establish the resistance to Arafat's movement which favored the Oslo Accords.

I know you wouldn't just fabricate that camel crap so how about providing a link to the source of that "fact."

 

[SAYIT]

You mistakenly assume Israel can stop Palestinians from organizing. If that was true, there would be no Islamic Jihad, no al-Aqsa Brigade, no DFLP, no PRC, no PFLP, no...

Well, apparently, you mistakenly assume that the Palestinians can organize anything autonomously -- that is, without significant interference and/or hands-on manipulation by the Israeli government. Recent history has proven you wrong.

Israel's hand in helping to establish and maintain Hamas as the de facto Palestinian government went well beyond allowing it to fund its social programs. In fact, prior to that, they released the founder of Hamas from his life sentence, so that he could establish the resistance to Arafat's movement which favored the Oslo Accords. Israel also brutally repressed the competition, making it virtually impossible for Arafat and the Palestinian left to deliver on the same kind of relief programs as Hamas. So, whether Zionist apologists such as yourself are willing to admit it or not, 1+1+1 ...does, in fact, equal 3.

I'm not going to waste any more time in here, only to be mis-characterized by the likes of you and Phoenall as a hate-filled bigot, but I'll leave you with this: I have no hate in my heart for any of my fellow human beings, irrespective of ethnicity; I simply despise the policies and actions of some of them.

Your posts make a mockery of your claim of nobility here and it is you who engages in mis-characterization (of Israel). I understand your desire to get as far away from the mess you've made on this thread as quickly as possible. You fool no one.
"Exit, stage left." - Snaglepuss

 

[Crystalclear]

The problem is that the Palestinian people are not going to remove Hamas, which means that Israel should do the job.

What the people in Gaza don't understand is that when they remove Hamas Israel will stop the operation.

but I repeat this is the fourth attempt to remove terrorists from Gaza with little success, so what are you going to do differently to remove the terrorists?

Have you any proof that the people of Gaza cannot equate the end of Hamas to the end of hostilities?

You are right about that. The people from Palestine won't stop hostilities. And removing Hamas perhaps doesn't end the hostilies, but it is a step forward.
What this operation has done is demilitarizing Hamas for a good part and removing almost all the infiltration tunnels.
After Hamas is beaten, there will be at least a time of peace until a new organisation stands up. However, it will take enough time before they have enough tunnels and weapons to pose a threat to Israel. And even if they do, Israel can beat that new organisation again.

 

[Capstone]

I'm back in 3..2..1...

Please don't go!

Okay, but only because you asked so nicely.

 

[Capstone]

You mistakenly assume Israel can stop Palestinians from organizing. If that was true, there would be no Islamic Jihad, no al-Aqsa Brigade, no DFLP, no PRC, no PFLP, no...

Well, apparently, you mistakenly assume that the Palestinians can organize anything autonomously -- that is, without significant interference and/or hands-on manipulation by the Israeli government. Recent history has proven you wrong.

Israel's hand in helping to establish and maintain Hamas as the de facto Palestinian government went well beyond allowing it to fund its social programs. In fact, prior to that, they released the founder of Hamas from his life sentence, so that he could establish the resistance to Arafat's movement which favored the Oslo Accords.

I know you wouldn't just fabricate that camel crap so how about providing a link to the source of that "fact."

What is it with you and the incessant begging for links? Haven't you ever tried thinking for yourself based on an unbiased look at the history?

The Palestinian general election of 1996, which legitimized the Fatah as a democratically elected regional government, is every bit as historically factual as Ahmed Yassin's oddly-timed release from his life sentence in 1997 by none other than Bibi Netanyahu.

Of course, the tensions between Arafat's and Yassin's respective movements had been brewing since the inception of Hamas in 1987, following Yassin's 1985 release from a 13 year prison sentence by Ariel Sharon.

And as noted even by this notoriusly biased source:

[. . .] Yassin was arrested in 1984 and sentenced to 13 years in jail for illegal possession of arms, the establishment of a military organization and calling for the annihilation of Israel. Yassin acknowledged that he founded an organization of religious activists with the goal of fighting non-religious factions in the territories, and carrying out "Jihad" operations against Israel. This organization used monies from Islamic activists in Jordan to acquire large quantities of weapons. Yassin was imprisoned until May 1985, when he was released in a prisoner exchange deal between Israel and the terrorist organization of Ahmed Jibril.

During the first intifada in 1987, Sedan notes, "Yassin transformed his Islamic Organization into a new body called Hamas. An acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas means zeal in Arabic. In Hebrew, it means evil."

The organization gained popular support in the territory in part because of its uncompromising position toward Israel, expressing in its covenant the conspiracy theories of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and a commitment to wage war against the Jews and “raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.” It also filled a vacuum left by Arafat's failure to provide basic services to the Palestinians in Gaza. By establishing a social welfare system of schools, clinics and hospitals that provide free services to Palestinian families. Hamas also established charitable funds in the territories, Israel, and around the world, which financed both its social and anti-social activities.

In 1989, Yassin ordered Hamas to kidnap Israeli soldiers inside Israel, to murder them and bury their bodies in a manner that would allow Hamas to negotiate the exchange of bodies for Hamas prisoners, who would be released from jails in Israel. Yassin was arrested after the abduction and murder of IDF soldier Ilan Sa'adon, and the discovery of the body of IDF soldier Avi Sasports, who was also abducted and murdered. Yassin confirmed during his interrogation that he ordered the establishment of a military element within Hamas and approved the drafting of terrorists, as well as the carrying out of terrorist attacks. He was tried in Israel and received two life sentences for his involvement in these attacks.

Yassin was held from May 1989 until October 1997, when he was released in exchange for two Mossad agents following a bungled assassination attempt in 1997 by the Mossad on a Hamas activist in Jordan. ...[emphasis Capstone's]

...Hamas benefited from its capacity to fund social programs, due in part to the "vacuum" attributed to "Arafat's failure" -- a failure that was the direct result of Israeli manipulation of the fund-raising avenues available to him.

Incidentally, the two conveniently-timed releases mentioned above followed Yassin's 1967 release. Prior to his death in 2004, it seems the guy had been jailed and released by the Israelis on a fairly regular basis.

 

[Hossfly]

Well, apparently, you mistakenly assume that the Palestinians can organize anything autonomously -- that is, without significant interference and/or hands-on manipulation by the Israeli government. Recent history has proven you wrong.

Israel's hand in helping to establish and maintain Hamas as the de facto Palestinian government went well beyond allowing it to fund its social programs. In fact, prior to that, they released the founder of Hamas from his life sentence, so that he could establish the resistance to Arafat's movement which favored the Oslo Accords.

I know you wouldn't just fabricate that camel crap so how about providing a link to the source of that "fact."

What is it with you and the incessant begging for links? Haven't you ever tried thinking for yourself based on an unbiased look at the history?

The Palestinian general election of 1996, which legitimized the Fatah as a democratically elected regional government, is every bit as historically factual as Ahmed Yassin's oddly-timed release from his life sentence in 1997 by none other than Bibi Netanyahu.

Of course, the tensions between Arafat's and Yassin's respective movements had been brewing since the inception of Hamas in 1987, following Yassin's 1985 release from a 13 year prison sentence by Ariel Sharon.

And as noted even by this notoriusly biased source:

[. . .] Yassin was arrested in 1984 and sentenced to 13 years in jail for illegal possession of arms, the establishment of a military organization and calling for the annihilation of Israel. Yassin acknowledged that he founded an organization of religious activists with the goal of fighting non-religious factions in the territories, and carrying out "Jihad" operations against Israel. This organization used monies from Islamic activists in Jordan to acquire large quantities of weapons. Yassin was imprisoned until May 1985, when he was released in a prisoner exchange deal between Israel and the terrorist organization of Ahmed Jibril.

During the first intifada in 1987, Sedan notes, "Yassin transformed his Islamic Organization into a new body called Hamas. An acronym for the Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas means zeal in Arabic. In Hebrew, it means evil."

The organization gained popular support in the territory in part because of its uncompromising position toward Israel, expressing in its covenant the conspiracy theories of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and a commitment to wage war against the Jews and “raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine.” It also filled a vacuum left by Arafat's failure to provide basic services to the Palestinians in Gaza. By establishing a social welfare system of schools, clinics and hospitals that provide free services to Palestinian families. Hamas also established charitable funds in the territories, Israel, and around the world, which financed both its social and anti-social activities.

In 1989, Yassin ordered Hamas to kidnap Israeli soldiers inside Israel, to murder them and bury their bodies in a manner that would allow Hamas to negotiate the exchange of bodies for Hamas prisoners, who would be released from jails in Israel. Yassin was arrested after the abduction and murder of IDF soldier Ilan Sa'adon, and the discovery of the body of IDF soldier Avi Sasports, who was also abducted and murdered. Yassin confirmed during his interrogation that he ordered the establishment of a military element within Hamas and approved the drafting of terrorists, as well as the carrying out of terrorist attacks. He was tried in Israel and received two life sentences for his involvement in these attacks.

Yassin was held from May 1989 until October 1997, when he was released in exchange for two Mossad agents following a bungled assassination attempt in 1997 by the Mossad on a Hamas activist in Jordan. ...[emphasis Capstone's]

...Hamas benefited from its capacity to fund social programs, due in part to the "vacuum" attributed to "Arafat's failure" -- a failure that was the direct result of Israeli manipulation of the fund-raising avenues available to him.

Incidentally, the two conveniently-timed releases mentioned above followed Yassin's 1967 release. Prior to his death in 2004, it seems the guy had been jailed and released by the Israelis on a fairly regular basis.

Cappy, you sure do have a fascination for the terrorist organization, Hamas. They paying you?