The Decline Of Unions

[The Sage of Main Street]

No they don't, as usual you confuse Socialism with Communism.

Socialism, Communism, and Capitalism Are All False Revolutions Against Feudalism

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Killed them off how by asking them for good pay and conditions?

Successpool

Brainwashed Americans will never suggest getting more talented people in management. The present inferior people in superior positions are too stupid to make a profit except by wage-gouging. Everybody on the two fake sides believes that if these Sissies in Suitcoats got the job, they must have had the best talent for the job.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Yes, they priced themselves, and had so many work rules that the companies couldn't compete with foreign companies.

We Get the Best Economic Theories Money Can Buy. Oinkonomics 101.

 

[westwall]

We Get the Best Economic Theories Money Can Buy. Oinkonomics 101.

I don't know what your pithy response is supposed to mean. The global markets determine what the fair value of a labor force is. If your workers demand 500 per day, but the workers in china will do the same job for 25 dollars, where do you think the companies are going to go?

The steamship companies are a similar story. My friend retired from APL as a Chief Engineer. He worked 6 months of the year, 3 months on, 3 months off. And he pulled in 200,000 per year. In the 1970's and 80's. A GREAT gig. However, APL could pay him that amount and still be able to get loads, so eventually, they reflagged to Singapore, but now may be back under a US flag. I will have to ask my friend. The operate 10 terminals worldwide, but the only US terminal is in Alaska, so US flagging is in doubt.

But when they went to Singapore, they bought out the old hands and went to Singaporean crews.

So, a good gig, that ended.

 

[Deadstick]

This is what P&O ferries got away with after foreign Corporation acquired the Company even though i believe the crews were Unionized, fire and rehire, they sacked hundreds of crew by text overnight then offered new contracts with worse pay and conditions, it was illegal but they got away with it, i sailed to Rotterdam Europort for over thirty years with P&O over the years got to know several of the crew some had been in the job for over thirty years, i used the Company because it was only a two hour drive from my home, ever since i have driven South several hundred miles to use STENA line, this is why we don't only need Unions we need strong ones, this tactic has also been used by other Companies since.

One year on, has P&O Ferries got away with illegally sacking all its crew?

Despite outrage at the time, no staff have been reinstated, no law reforms initiated, and no sanctions started against directors or owners

www.theguardian.com

 

[westwall]

This is what P&O ferries got away with after foreign Corporation acquired the Company even though i believe the crews were Unionized, fire and rehire, they sacked hundreds of crew by text overnight then offered new contracts with worse pay and conditions, it was illegal but they got away with it, i sailed to Rotterdam Europort for over thirty years with P&O over the years got to know several of the crew some had been in the job for over thirty years, i used the Company because it was only a two hour drive from my home, ever since i have driven South several hundred miles to use STENA line, this is why we don't only need Unions we need strong ones, this tacti has also been used by other Companies since.

One year on, has P&O Ferries got away with illegally sacking all its crew?

Despite outrage at the time, no staff have been reinstated, no law reforms initiated, and no sanctions started against directors or owners

www.theguardian.com

Exactly my point. When you price yourself too high there is always a foreign company waiting in the wings to buy the remains.

They don't have the high costs because they don't have the high regulations. There's a reason why most EV technology is built in third world countries, they have ZERO environmental laws. They don't care who gets poisoned by their toxic waste.

 

[Deadstick]

Exactly my point. When you price yourself too high there is always a foreign company waiting in the wings to buy the remains.

They don't have the high costs because they don't have the high regulations. There's a reason why most EV technology is built in third world countries, they have ZERO environmental laws. They don't care who gets poisoned by their toxic waste.

They were not paid too high and what you say is just rabid out of control capitalism, we also have zero hours contracts in the UK, in other words workers only being paid when actually working, that means in the logistics industry a truck driver is only paid for when he actually behind the wheel, if work is slack he could be sent home or sat in the canteen on standby not being paid apart from anything else it plays havoc with home and family life, it's hard for these people to get a mortgage because they don't know what there earnings are from week to week, if you are a worker why the hell would you want these conditions? taking us to third world Country conditions is not the answer.

Major companies that have imposed 'fire and rehire' tactics on staff since Covid

Fire and rehire, under which staff are forced to accept worse conditions in order to keep their jobs, has become a huge problem in the past year

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[sealybobo]

you ever been in a union bobo?....

Yes, sort of. I had a summer job in a factory. It had a union. I think I paid in but was not a member. It was a JOKE. The owner gave them a union because it's Michigan and unions gave workers a sense they had a seat at the table but he paid these guys dick. Then he hired in us college boys AND blacks from Detroit for $5 which was less than the union guys made, which I believe was $7. These guys had miserable pathetic lives. One guy every day in the summer got off work, went fishing for 2 hours, then went home to the old lady. That's about all he could afford to do.

It was a joke of a union. Small plant. They couldn't afford to strike for more pay. I believe the owner used it as a slush fund. Spent their dues on his mansion. So yes and no. Not a real union.

My dad did though so I know all the benefits of working for a real union. UAW.

Interesting story. My dad worked in the cafeteria at Ford but he was still a UAW worker. Eventually they outsourced the cafeteria and he was no longer a Ford employee. Suddenly his pay dropped and he had no job security with this new union. It was a joke of a union too.

But the UAW got my dad a pension. Great healthcare too that he still enjoys the benefits today at the age of 80.

 

[westwall]

They were not paid too high and what you say is just rabid out of control capitalism, we also have zero hours contracts in the UK, in other words workers only being paid when actually working, that means in the logistics industry a truck driver is only paid for when he actually behind the wheel, if work is slack he could be sent home or sat in the canteen on standby not being paid apart from anything else it plays havoc with home and family life, it's hard for these people to get a mortgage because they don't know what there earnings are from week to week, if you are a worker why the hell would you want these conditions? taking us to third world Country conditions is not the answer.

Major companies that have imposed 'fire and rehire' tactics on staff since Covid

Fire and rehire, under which staff are forced to accept worse conditions in order to keep their jobs, has become a huge problem in the past year

www.mirror.co.uk

No, it's reality. If you don't like it you have one option, tariffs. Tariffs that are high enough will keep local businesses local, but expect to pay a lot more for what they deliver.

I am all for that, just so you know, but the reality is you can have a 1st world life, just be prepared to have to spend a lot to afford it.

Your socialist leaders have been working very hard at lowering everyone's living standard to 3rd world levels.

Themselves excluded however. They still get to live large on your dime.

 

[Deadstick]

No, it's reality. If you don't like it you have one option, tariffs. Tariffs that are high enough will keep local businesses local, but expect to pay a lot more for what they deliver.

I am all for that, just so you know, but the reality is you can have a 1st world life, just be prepared to have to spend a lot to afford it.

Your socialist leaders have been working very hard at lowering everyone's living standard to 3rd world levels.

Themselves excluded however. They still get to live large on your dime.

Which Socialist leaders have lowered my living standard? in your World we would all be living like Bangladesh pissing in the streets and living in shacks.

 

[westwall]

Which Socialist leaders have lowered my living standard? in your World we would all be living like Bangladesh pissing in the streets and living in shacks.

All of them. You have no clue how bad you have it, because you have never known what it was like to have something.

Your hero Claus scheab said it best, "you will have nothing, and you will like it"

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I don't know what your pithy response is supposed to mean. The global markets determine what the fair value of a labor force is. If your workers demand 500 per day, but the workers in china will do the same job for 25 dollars, where do you think the companies are going to go?


But when they went to Singapore, they bought out the old hands and went to Singaporean crews.

Owners Are Unpatriotic Parasites, and Only Smart Enough to Brainwash Stupid People

Under your smug but defective logic, a CIA chief, such as Aldrich Ames, had a perfect right to spy for the Soviet Union if they offered him more money than he was getting from the American people.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

They were not paid too high and what you say is just rabid out of control capitalism, we also have zero hours contracts in the UK, in other words workers only being paid when actually working, that means in the logistics industry a truck driver is only paid for when he actually behind the wheel, if work is slack he could be sent home or sat in the canteen on standby not being paid apart from anything else it plays havoc with home and family life, it's hard for these people to get a mortgage because they don't know what there earnings are from week to week, if you are a worker why the hell would you want these conditions? taking us to third world Country conditions is not the answer.

Major companies that have imposed 'fire and rehire' tactics on staff since Covid

Fire and rehire, under which staff are forced to accept worse conditions in order to keep their jobs, has become a huge problem in the past year

www.mirror.co.uk

According to Plutelovers Logic, We Shoul Hire Armies That Don't Have Veterans' Benefits

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Your socialist leaders have been working very hard at lowering everyone's living standard to 3rd world levels.

Themselves excluded however. They still get to live large on your dime.

Politics Is a Spitball Fight at a Prep School

The Capitalists are doing the same thing. Both fraternity-brother ideologies represent the RichKid Reich, which won't drag us down with it if we overthrow it.

 

[westwall]

Politics Is a Spitball Fight at a Prep School

The Capitalists are doing the same thing. Both fraternity-brother ideologies represent the RichKid Reich, which won't drag us down with it if we overthrow it.

Capitalism raises all boats. What we have is fascism on a scale the Nazis could only dream about.

 

[Andrew_Jackson_FTW]

Offshoring of manufacturing to low-wage, low-regulation countries, and the conversion of those higher paying jobs in the US to lower paying service sector jobs.

~25% of the workforce in manufacturing in the 70's, down to 8% today. Those were jobs where a single earner could support a family...

View attachment 1020799

Those were the jobs that built America. The steel and auto job built the American middle-class.

America used to be a place where a traditional masculine man could maintain a family of four or more while The wife stayed at home and didn’t even have to work. Now look at the dump that is America today in large part. Too many young people are happy to be zoned out on dope all the time, doing nothing with their lives playing video games all the time. To many girly men supported by a radical feminist media/hollywood.


All of that said, I have hope and optimism for the American future. I feel that traditional values and Christianity are making a comeback in this country. I like the energy of the leader of the dockworkers union. I think he’s a Trump supporter.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Capitalism raises all boats.

The Waves from the Fatcats' Yachts Sink All Their Workers' Rowboats

 

[westwall]

The Waves from the Fatcats' Yachts Sink All Their Workers' Rowboats

Owners of yachts employ craftsman that possess skills that normal people won't pay for.

 

[para bellum]

Owners of yachts employ craftsman that possess skills that normal people won't pay for.

And the owners don't build them, or maintain them, or crew them.

They pay people to do that, and those are decent paying jobs.

 

[westwall]

And the owners don't build them, or maintain them, or crew them.

They pay people to do that, and those are decent paying jobs.

Exactly. Socialists don't understand that capitalism isn't a zero sum game.

Rich guys, who happen to like fancy watches set up a school to teach horology to a new generation of craftsmen because all the others had closed down.

They have 7 or 8 apprentices and those people will go on to teach others and they will make good money making trinkets for rich dudes.