“It will be my objective to phase out Social Security." - Sen. Mike Lee says the quiet part out loud.

[dblack]

Good for you.

Not everyone is in the position to do all or even much of that.

Fuck em huh?

Couldn't we provide a safety net for the poor, without forcing everyone else to cede control of their retirement to the state? It's a little like ACA, where the excuse is to help the poor, but in reality what Dems want is federal control of health insurance.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Ponzi schemes do not last over 100 years

How wrong you are.

 

[Lesh]

SS privatization was tried in Chile and it was a disaster

Chile’s Failed Pensions Are Neoliberalism’s Badge of Shame

A successful reform of the system is essential not only to reducing poverty, but also to restoring public faith in the country’s democracy.

www.cfr.org

 

[Foolardi]

Then figure out how to fix it without ending the original concept.

You pay in, you get back.

How forgetful the Democrat Rat Pack is.Remember Al Gore
insisting about that " Lock Box ". He was referring to the
pledge the Democrats machine { 40 years a majority in
the House } were pushing each decade.Until Newt Gingrich
broke that spell.Then a New House Majority became reality.
Since the mid-50's Social Security was not audited.
No way to determine how solvent.Then we found out after
Al Gore was running for President in 2000 how much trouble
Social Security had gotten.After 40 years of House Democrat
control.Bill Clinton vetoed a lot of new Budget items that
the New House Congress 1994- forward was battling.
No way to have one President or House leader like Gingrich
fix it.Therefore Al Gore decided to make a big deal about
that " Lock Box ". As if a magic bullet to the Presidency.
Never became reality.So Gore decided to be a troublemaker.
He personally cultivated the Global Warming Myth.
How Ironic to this day that his personal residence burns
electricity like a Sultan.Travels in Luxury by Air when not
even necessary.Talk about the effect on the Air and atmosphere.
Like the myth of the Polar Ice caps melting.
There's MORE than a sucker born every minute.

 

[Contumacious]

SS privatization was tried in Chile and it was a disaster

Chile’s Failed Pensions Are Neoliberalism’s Badge of Shame

A successful reform of the system is essential not only to reducing poverty, but also to restoring public faith in the country’s democracy.

www.cfr.org

Stupid dingle berry


"In 1981, Matagorda, Brazoria, and Galveston Counties all opted out of the Social Security program for their employees. Today, their program is very, very well-funded and there is no question about whether it’s going to be funded in" years to come."

Rick Perry says employees in three counties left Social Security for alternate savings plans and are faring very well

Promoting his book, Texas Gov. Rick Perry bemoaned a failure in Washington to confront Social Security's financial shaki

www.politifact.com

 

[Rigby5]

Not really. You took an immediate loss on the money you were withdrawing, but unless you pulled out your entire lump sum from your retirement, the money you still had in there eventually regained its value and climbed even higher in the following years. Also, don't forget the following year the stock market climbed massively. You lost out on the growth of what you withdrew during that period, but in the long term, that's all.

The stock market is a far better investment. SS can't even compare.

Wrong.
Companies go under all the time, like Texaco and Hertz, and you never get any of that investment back.
The fact other people will sometimes make huge profits, does NOT at all "average" out to any value to those who lost everything.

The stock market is the worst possible investment in the world since it produces absolutely nothing, and any money you make comes from someone else losing money in the stock market.
It is insane and should not even be legal.
It there is anything that is a ponzi scheme, it is the stock market.

In contrast, Social Security saves us all trillions by paying off the interest on the national debt, which otherwise would greatly increase taxes if not for SS surplus investing in the national debt.

 

[jc456]

What the fuck are you talking about?

The way SS is structured, if current workers don’t contribute to SS, those benefit payments have to come from the General fund.

What the fk does this even mean? if one doesn't contribute, one doesn't receive benefits. Why would someone who doesn't pay in get our money? Explain

 

[Zincwarrior]

No, reform is necessary

But not for the generation already locked in to retirement

Of course not. All praise the Boomers.

Lets flip that. Eliminate retirement after 70. The money saved from defunding Boomer retirement will take care of the situation.
Harsh? Thats exactly what you just argued for the younger generations.

 

[dblack]

Why would someone who doesn't pay in get our money? Explain

That's the whole point of the program, despite the pretense.

 

[jc456]

And the Republican attack on Social Security continues.

And you fuckers swore there was no attack…

Well it is a ponzi scheme. It always was, ponzi scheme is pay in to pull out.

 

[jc456]

That's the whole point of the program, despite the pretense.

The point of the program is to pay out to those who didn't pay in? not how I understand it.

 

[Rigby5]

How forgetful the Democrat Rat Pack is.Remember Al Gore
insisting about that " Lock Box ". He was referring to the
pledge the Democrats machine { 40 years a majority in
the House } were pushing each decade.Until Newt Gingrich
broke that spell.Then a New House Majority became reality.
Since the mid-50's Social Security was not audited.
No way to determine how solvent.Then we found out after
Al Gore was running for President in 2000 how much trouble
Social Security had gotten.After 40 years of House Democrat
control.Bill Clinton vetoed a lot of new Budget items that
the New House Congress 1994- forward was battling.
No way to have one President or House leader like Gingrich
fix it.Therefore Al Gore decided to make a big deal about
that " Lock Box ". As if a magic bullet to the Presidency.
Never became reality.So Gore decided to be a troublemaker.
He personally cultivated the Global Warming Myth.
How Ironic to this day that his personal residence burns
electricity like a Sultan.Travels in Luxury by Air when not
even necessary.Talk about the effect on the Air and atmosphere.
Like the myth of the Polar Ice caps melting.
There's MORE than a sucker born every minute.

Wrong.
The Social Security surplus is invested in the national debt, which IS essentially a "lockbox".
There is no way to not repay the national debt.
It is required by law, and there is no way to lose unless the entire country is destroyed and defaults.

And global warming has been absolutely proven beyond any possible doubt.
For over 50,000 years there was no Northwest Passage, and then suddenly in 1997, the Arctic ice melted and created a Northwest Passage.
All the glaciers we used to see on mountain tops for tens of thousands of years, are almost all gone now.

 

[kyzr]

I oppose raising the cap. The people with incomes over the cap are already paying 24%-37% taxes on the amount over the SS limit. The problem is not lack of lack taxes - it is overspending by the government overall. Cut out the gross waste and narrow the scope of the government, fund SS out of the general fund to pay back the money Congress spent out of the SS surplus in the past - and phase out SS altogether over time to get rid of this Ponzi scheme.

You are mixing apples and oranges. SS is NOT on funded by the Federal Income Tax, the SS deficit can be, but SS currently is a standalone program. Unless SS is fixed we will only receive 70% of promised benefits after 2033. There are only a few ways to fix SS, one is raising the cap, another is means testing, and a 3rd is having the Federal Budget cover the shortfall.
If as you say above Elon and Vivek can cut a $trillion or $2trillion from the Budget then the SS shortfall can be covered by cutting spending. SS is NOT a Ponzi scheme, it works, there is no other program to give seniors a pension, we paid into SS all our working lives, there is NFW you can stop it, its the "3rd rail" of politics.

 

[dblack]

The point of the program is to pay out to those who didn't pay in? not how I understand it.

The point is to provide a safety net for those lacking the wherewithal to fund their own retirement.

 

[kyzr]

Then figure out how to fix it without ending the original concept.

You pay in, you get back.

We paid in, the government used the surplus, gave us an IOU, and now needs to cough up what they borrowed.
If Elon and Vivek can cut spending a $trillion or $2trillion then they might be able to cover the SS shortfall.

 

[jc456]

Yeah, but the market rebounds. We all took a hit in 2008, but unless you were already drawing from it at the time you eventually recovered everything and more so, and actually, if you were still contributing, you were putting money in at historically low costs.

The stock market has an average return of 11%. Social Security's is less than 2%.





My point is I'd rather have a program that provides more to people than the bare minimum.

SS was sold as retirement for life back in the early years, and as inflation took over, the % of income from SS dropped as you stated. It's why it's outlasted it's usefulness.

 

[jc456]

The point is to provide a safety net for those lacking the wherewithal to fund their own retirement.

correct, but one had to pay in to receive.

 

[dblack]

correct, but one had to pay in to receive.

Nominally. But does anyone really believe that it's not just another wealth sharing scheme?

 

[martybegan]

We paid in, the government used the surplus, gave us an IOU, and now needs to cough up what they borrowed.
If Elon and Vivek can cut spending a $trillion or $2trillion then they might be able to cover the SS shortfall.

No, what you are asking it for some people only to cough up more without getting anything in return.

 

[Rigby5]

What the fk does this even mean? if one doesn't contribute, one doesn't receive benefits. Why would someone who doesn't pay in get our money? Explain

I think what he means is that if there is a temporary reduction in payments into SS, like from a depression, and those who already retired still have to get their pay outs from SS, then that deficit is made up from the general fund of the federal government.
That is because the SS surplus over the years is invested in the national debt, by buying gov bonds.
So it is the government that owes SS back for the surplus they have been borrowing.
There is no more stable investment than US bonds.