‘It’s a crisis for Québec women’ (socialized medicine fails)

[TheOldSchool]

I wonder what percentage of those women would have no hope of surviving without their healthcare.
"Prompt, good healthcare" is a horrible argument to use when it is only available to a select percentage of the population.

So you believe it's better for 98% of women to get treated for cancer late, so a lot of them are going to die, than for 2% not to get treated at all?

You're a moron.

furthermore, no one is denied healthcare in this country.

Fascinating statistics, what ass did you pull them out of?

 

[koshergrl]

I wonder what percentage of those women would have no hope of surviving without their healthcare.
"Prompt, good healthcare" is a horrible argument to use when it is only available to a select percentage of the population.

So you believe it's better for 98% of women to get treated for cancer late, so a lot of them are going to die, than for 2% not to get treated at all?

You're a moron.

furthermore, no one is denied healthcare in this country.

Not yet.

But it's going to happen. Part of Obama's vision for America is a reduction of the population.

 

[TheOldSchool]

No, it hasn't. I work with the same population..they already had healthcare. The lie about "the poor people didn't have health care before Obamacare" is a lie. A complete and total lie.

YOU ARE WRONG! Even if they had healthcare there was a cap on what it would pay for and it was embarrassingly low. Families were paying out of their own pocket for services they couldn't afford and trying to figure out how to pay everyday bills with what was left.

I work with developmental disabilities, I've been there trying to figure out what states they would benefit by moving to when they had to choose. THEY WERE ALL BLUE STATES! The one state that Republicans can argue sets aside funds for disabilities is Alabama, but what those funds are set aside for is EMBARASSING! Seriously look at the electoral map, the blue states are where you should live if you have a child with disabilities (except Florida but they can't get their s*** together).

Obamacare is finally a step in the right direction for those who need help. Thank God Romney lost, even though previous to the election and the influence of the tea party he was on the right side of this argument.

I'm not wrong at all. There will STILL be a cap, only it will get increasingly lower.

And you're full of shit about the blue states being better states to live in if you have disabilities.

Oh please expand.

 

[koshergrl]

Oregon is a blue state. I have dealt with dozens of disabled people who stupidly moved here and then realized their medical was drastically reduced.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Oregon is a blue state. I have dealt with dozens of disabled people who stupidly moved here and then realized their medical was drastically reduced.

What care are you talking about?

In my experience if you have Tricare then you're family can live anywhere and your child with disabilities will get a fair shake. If you don't, move to a blue state. I'm sure that Oregon will present better opportunities for a child with special needs than any red state.

 

[francoHFW]

Alabama, that gets $1.70 back for every dollar they send to the Feds...Cal and NY: $0.80... Pfft!! Fegging typical Red state freeloaders...

Harvard: 45k died a year because they didn't have insurance. It's also CHEAPER to cover them in the long run.

Dupes of the greedy rich.

OP- there is always tinkering going on, but we're paying TWICE as much as ALL other modern countries, with worse results. BRILLIANT!!

 

[Againsheila]

Delayed medical attention is usually better than none at all.

True. However, since there has always been superior, prompt healthcare in this country, until now, your point is moot.

Superior prompt healthcare? For the wealthy maybe, for the elite maybe, but for the rest of us? My mother had no less than 3 different insurance carriers and when her doctor left the business she couldn't find another one that would take her. By the time I found out and got her in to see my doctor it was too late. She had lung cancer. FIVE times, no less than FIVE times we took her to the emergency room when she was is so much pain she couldn't stand it. They hooked her up to machines and took xrays. The alarm of the machines would go off so often the nurse would finally come in and turn off the machine. FINALLY they admitted her and diagnosed her with lung cancer. They gave her 3 months to live and she was gone in 10 days. Don't give me that crap about the best medical care in this country. My mother had money and she STILL couldn't get the best medical care. Doctors don't take new medicare patients...it doesn't matter what back up insurance they have, medicare is almost a death sentence.

I hand out lunches to the homeless every monday, they sure as hell don't get the best medical care.

At least in Canada, EVERYONE has to wait the same amount of time. You don't get to skip to the head of the line because you are rich.

Don't give me that crap about superior prompt health care.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Delayed medical attention is usually better than none at all.

another pitch to the masses: some is better than none while the elites enjoy the best. Socialism, here US comes.

 

[Toro]

Canadians overwhelming don't want anything to do with an American style medical system. Polls over the years have shown that 80%-90% of Canadians like Medicare, even if they believe there should be changes. The Left in Canada frames any move towards private healthcare as a move towards an American system as a way to demonize privatization. Also, Canadians go across the border for advanced procedures, but they account for less than 1% of all procedures.

But Canadians are willing to tolerate waiting for procedures. And the lines can be long, particularly for "lifestyle" issues. My father had to wait nearly a year to see a neurologist regarding a pinched nerve which caused him significant pain. My wife's uncle was scheduled to have stents implanted, and had to wait nine months before undergoing surgery, but that was only after he went into emergency complaining of chest pains, when he was then admitted.

I don't think Americans are willing to wait like Canadians are.

 

[Grandma]

Delayed medical attention is usually better than none at all.

True. However, since there has always been superior, prompt healthcare in this country, until now, your point is moot.

That superior, prompt healthcare in this country has only been available to the wealthy. Or are you suggesting that the working class and poor deserve to die?

 

[Toro]

I wonder what percentage of those women would have no hope of surviving without their healthcare.
"Prompt, good healthcare" is a horrible argument to use when it is only available to a select percentage of the population.

So you believe it's better for 98% of women to get treated for cancer late, so a lot of them are going to die, than for 2% not to get treated at all?

You're a moron.

furthermore, no one is denied healthcare in this country.

I've seen a lot of cancer in Canada. My father-in-law died of cancer. My grandfather died of cancer. My birthmother died of cancer. One of my best friends in elementary school died of cancer. Another friend died of cancer. My father gets treated for basal cell skin cancer. My cousin has lung cancer now. Almost all are treated immediately when diagnosed.

The issue is that Canadians don't get the best possible medical care because the system can't afford it. In the past, Taxol was restricted. When Avastin first came out, it took some time before the provinces were willing to pay for it because they didn't think it was worth the $20k per treatment for extending a patient's life by 4-5 months. So even though most Canadians get treatment for cancer almost right away, the treatment tends to be a few years behind what one can get in America.

 

[koshergrl]

Delayed medical attention is usually better than none at all.

True. However, since there has always been superior, prompt healthcare in this country, until now, your point is moot.

Superior prompt healthcare? For the wealthy maybe, for the elite maybe, but for the rest of us? My mother had no less than 3 different insurance carriers and when her doctor left the business she couldn't find another one that would take her. By the time I found out and got her in to see my doctor it was too late. She had lung cancer. FIVE times, no less than FIVE times we took her to the emergency room when she was is so much pain she couldn't stand it. They hooked her up to machines and took xrays. The alarm of the machines would go off so often the nurse would finally come in and turn off the machine. FINALLY they admitted her and diagnosed her with lung cancer. They gave her 3 months to live and she was gone in 10 days. Don't give me that crap about the best medical care in this country. My mother had money and she STILL couldn't get the best medical care. Doctors don't take new medicare patients...it doesn't matter what back up insurance they have, medicare is almost a death sentence.

I hand out lunches to the homeless every monday, they sure as hell don't get the best medical care.

At least in Canada, EVERYONE has to wait the same amount of time. You don't get to skip to the head of the line because you are rich.

Don't give me that crap about superior prompt health care.

Medicare is socialized medicine. You just backed up what I said.

But the truth of the matter is, she didn't have to wait to get in to see a doctor. Just because the ER physicians missed the cancer isn't evidence of long waits for treatment...the ER is meant to treat emergency illness; it's not where you go to get diagnosis of chronic, ongoing conditions. Your mother was able to get attention when she needed it. The fact that she didn't take her symptoms to a regular doctor does not prove that we have poor medical services.

 

[koshergrl]

Delayed medical attention is usually better than none at all.

True. However, since there has always been superior, prompt healthcare in this country, until now, your point is moot.

That superior, prompt healthcare in this country has only been available to the wealthy. Or are you suggesting that the working class and poor deserve to die?

It's hard to argue with socialized medicine whores who continue to tell lies.

 

[Againsheila]

True. However, since there has always been superior, prompt healthcare in this country, until now, your point is moot.

Superior prompt healthcare? For the wealthy maybe, for the elite maybe, but for the rest of us? My mother had no less than 3 different insurance carriers and when her doctor left the business she couldn't find another one that would take her. By the time I found out and got her in to see my doctor it was too late. She had lung cancer. FIVE times, no less than FIVE times we took her to the emergency room when she was is so much pain she couldn't stand it. They hooked her up to machines and took xrays. The alarm of the machines would go off so often the nurse would finally come in and turn off the machine. FINALLY they admitted her and diagnosed her with lung cancer. They gave her 3 months to live and she was gone in 10 days. Don't give me that crap about the best medical care in this country. My mother had money and she STILL couldn't get the best medical care. Doctors don't take new medicare patients...it doesn't matter what back up insurance they have, medicare is almost a death sentence.

I hand out lunches to the homeless every monday, they sure as hell don't get the best medical care.

At least in Canada, EVERYONE has to wait the same amount of time. You don't get to skip to the head of the line because you are rich.

Don't give me that crap about superior prompt health care.

Medicare is socialized medicine. You just backed up what I said.

But the truth of the matter is, she didn't have to wait to get in to see a doctor. Just because the ER physicians missed the cancer isn't evidence of long waits for treatment...the ER is meant to treat emergency illness; it's not where you go to get diagnosis of chronic, ongoing conditions. Your mother was able to get attention when she needed it. The fact that she didn't take her symptoms to a regular doctor does not prove that we have poor medical services.

Medicare is taken out of your paycheck, same as social security. You pay for it, so it's not socialized. As for the ER, you missed the part about her doctor leaving the business and her going without a doctor for TWO YEARS because no doctor was taking new medicare patients. I found out and got her in to see my family doctor but by then it was too late. We'd already had 3 trips to the emergency room and he didn't have time to find out what was wrong before the 5th trip when they finally admitted her. Do you actually believe that when one is hooked up to machines and an alarm keeps going off the answer is to just turn off the machine?????

Now during the same time as my mother's symptoms started, my aunt, who had a regular doctor, found out SHE had lung cancer. She was operated on and a portion of her lung removed and she lived a lot longer than my mom. By the time it was discovered in my mom it was too late. Would it have been if her doctor hadn't left the business? If she had been admitted to the hospital the FIRST time we took her to emergency?

Being admitted to the hospital and diagnosed with lung cancer and dying 10 days later, TEN days, that's not a result of prompt healthcare, that's a result of irresponsibility on the part of the hospital. Do you think for one second that if they do that to someone with a bursting appendix that they'd get away with it? You go to the emergency room with a problem they are suppose to diagnose that problem and solve it, not simply ignore the alarms going off on the machine, tell you they don't have enough room to admit you and send you home with a quick pain killer, telling you to see your own doctor when you can.

I think you are confusing medicare with medicaid. Medicaid is socialized medicine. Sadly, some people on medicaid get better healthcare than those on medicare who've been working all their lives..

 

[Againsheila]

True. However, since there has always been superior, prompt healthcare in this country, until now, your point is moot.

That superior, prompt healthcare in this country has only been available to the wealthy. Or are you suggesting that the working class and poor deserve to die?

It's hard to argue with socialized medicine whores who continue to tell lies.

Yes, of course, anyone that disagrees with you is a whore...personal attacks mean you just lost the debate...not that you had any chance of winning.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

‘It’s a crisis for Québec women’ (socialized medicine fails)
Montréal Gazette ^ | November 13, 2012 | Charlie Fidelman

‘It’s a crisis for Quebec women’

Surgery wait times for deadly ovarian, cervical and breast cancers in Québec are three times longer than government benchmarks, leading some desperate patients to shop around for an operating room. But that’s a waste of time, doctors say, since the problem is spread across Québec hospitals. And doctors are refusing to accept new patients quickly because they can’t treat them, health advocates say. …

The worst cases are gynecological cancers, experts say, because usually such a cancer has already spread by the time it is detected. Instead of four weeks from diagnosis to surgery, patients are waiting as long as three months to have cancerous growths removed.

“It’s a crisis for Québec women,” said Lucy Gilbert, director of gynecological oncology and the gynecologic cancer multi-disciplinary team at the McGill University Health Center. Her team has had access to operating rooms only two days a week for the past year, with dozens of patients having surgeries postponed week after week. …

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T46wQb9lAbI]Adrian Campbell Makes a Run for the Border in 'SiCKO' - YouTube[/ame]
*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LnY-jy_cE0&feature=related]Sicko (Michael Moore) - Tony Benn - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[koshergrl]

That superior, prompt healthcare in this country has only been available to the wealthy. Or are you suggesting that the working class and poor deserve to die?

It's hard to argue with socialized medicine whores who continue to tell lies.

Yes, of course, anyone that disagrees with you is a whore...personal attacks mean you just lost the debate...not that you had any chance of winning.

No, not everyone who disagrees with me is a whore.

People who give blow jobs to socialized medicine based on their desire for free stuff are whores, though. Everyone in this country has had access to medical care regardless of their ability to pay. There are no people being turned away from hospitals. We have had medicaid, medicare, and individual charity programs functioning in this country for many decades, and through a combination of those programs and government assistance, every person in the US has had access to medical care. You are LYING when you say otherwise.

And as a caseworker, this is something we are told to tell people who come in to apply for medical...."If you need medical attention you need to go see a doctor REGARDLESS of your ability to pay" because the STATE KNEW THAT THEY WOULD BE TREATED. The billing works itself out later. Those who don't have medicare may be eligible for medicaid. If they aren't eligible for medicaid, they can apply for subsidy/charity programs that the hospitals (generally funded by churches) provide.

In my community there is a program that writes off the medical expenses of poor people who for whatever reason don't qualify for fed/state medical. And there are programs like this ALL OVER THE US. I've never been in a community where I wasn't aware of a a medical expense write-off program that "forgives" medical bills, in their entirety or partially, dependent upon the patient's ability to pay.

It's sad that your mother died of cancer. But she didn't die, or even go undiagnosed, because of any breakdown in the system. She didn't get a proper diagnosis earlier because she was using the ER as her primary health care provider. That's not what ER is for. ER is to diagnose and treat ACUTE issues. I imagine each time she went in she was told to follow up with a regular MD, and get additional tests. It's sad you weren't there to help and guide her through that process, but the fact that she didn't go to a doctor with her concerns and instead just went to the ER when she was in pain is not significant of any problem with the current system.

 

[koshergrl]

My uncle battled back pain all his life. A few years ago, he was having a particularly bad attack, and he went to the ER for a shot of demerol...

They decided to do exploratory surgery...he was full of cancer. They closed him up, sent him home, and he was dead in 2 days.

That is NOT a failure of the system. He didn't know he had cancer. His doctors didn't know he had cancer. He had always dealt with back pain, there was no reason to suspect cancer. But it just happened to be. Obamacare isn't going to stop that from happening. In fact, you're going to be seeing a LOT more untreated illnesses and preventable deaths from 2014 on.

 

[Againsheila]

It's hard to argue with socialized medicine whores who continue to tell lies.

Yes, of course, anyone that disagrees with you is a whore...personal attacks mean you just lost the debate...not that you had any chance of winning.

No, not everyone who disagrees with me is a whore.

People who give blow jobs to socialized medicine based on their desire for free stuff are whores, though. Everyone in this country has had access to medical care regardless of their ability to pay. There are no people being turned away from hospitals. We have had medicaid, medicare, and individual charity programs functioning in this country for many decades, and through a combination of those programs and government assistance, every person in the US has had access to medical care. You are LYING when you say otherwise.

And as a caseworker, this is something we are told to tell people who come in to apply for medical...."If you need medical attention you need to go see a doctor REGARDLESS of your ability to pay" because the STATE KNEW THAT THEY WOULD BE TREATED. The billing works itself out later. Those who don't have medicare may be eligible for medicaid. If they aren't eligible for medicaid, they can apply for subsidy/charity programs that the hospitals (generally funded by churches) provide.

In my community there is a program that writes off the medical expenses of poor people who for whatever reason don't qualify for fed/state medical. And there are programs like this ALL OVER THE US. I've never been in a community where I wasn't aware of a a medical expense write-off program that "forgives" medical bills, in their entirety or partially, dependent upon the patient's ability to pay.

It's sad that your mother died of cancer. But she didn't die, or even go undiagnosed, because of any breakdown in the system. She didn't get a proper diagnosis earlier because she was using the ER as her primary health care provider. That's not what ER is for. ER is to diagnose and treat ACUTE issues. I imagine each time she went in she was told to follow up with a regular MD, and get additional tests. It's sad you weren't there to help and guide her through that process, but the fact that she didn't go to a doctor with her concerns and instead just went to the ER when she was in pain is not significant of any problem with the current system.

No, she didn't get a proper diagnoses earlier because her doctor left the business and no other doctors in the area would take her on as a patient. The system broke down. It doesn't work. And you are one lousy social worker if you believe medicare is socialized medicine.

You can't go see you "regular" doctor when you don't have one.

If they could admit her on the FIFTH trip to the emergency room with the same symptoms, they could have admitted her on the FIRST trip. Again, you are ignoring the fact that something was extremely wrong. That alarms were blaring and their response was to turn off the machine rather than to look for the cause....

 

[Againsheila]

My uncle battled back pain all his life. A few years ago, he was having a particularly bad attack, and he went to the ER for a shot of demerol...

They decided to do exploratory surgery...he was full of cancer. They closed him up, sent him home, and he was dead in 2 days.

That is NOT a failure of the system. He didn't know he had cancer. His doctors didn't know he had cancer. He had always dealt with back pain, there was no reason to suspect cancer. But it just happened to be. Obamacare isn't going to stop that from happening. In fact, you're going to be seeing a LOT more untreated illnesses and preventable deaths from 2014 on.

I am not defending Obamacare. I'm just not defending our current care either and I am attacking your claim that we have prompt superior healthcare when it's clear to anyone with a brain that that only applies to the wealthy.

We are near the bottom in infant mortality rate among industrialized nations, that's hardly the result of prompt superior healthcare.