It is now time for a "Soft" Military Draft

[DudleySmith]

Actually they can't. The Marine Corps is mandated by U.S. law to be at a minimum strength of three divisions and three air wings.

Actually they can; there is no law preventing them from being under strength. Who are they going to arrest and prosecute if they do that? The President? The House? Trump?

In any case, they can't seem to make up their minds on where their shortages are.

"According to data obtained by Marine Corps Times, serious manpower gaps appear to be impacting fields like cyber, intelligence, drone operators, ground combat leadership and F-35B pilots — occupations Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Robert B. Neller often has highlighted as key to building the future fighting force.

....

"Other fields appear grossly overmanned: Ground intelligence officers and signals intelligence officers are manned at more than 140 percent. And enlisted drone operators are hitting 138 percent manning."

Future force in crisis? How Marine shortages threaten the Corpsâ high-tech war plans

The Corps' plans in a high-tech war could be derailed by critical manpower shortages.

www.marinecorpstimes.com

Shortage of drone officers but an over-supply of enlisted drone operators. This is the main reason why there is no increase in military budgets for drones, not Iranian hijackings. Haven't read any news about anybody getting sued or arrested due to shortages; I do find a lot of info on varying Marine force sizes, from over 500,000 down to 180,000 over time.

 

[Concerned American]

They don't have a mission any more. Guadalcanal and D-Day showed the Army can do the job. They have a lot of propaganda going for them, and all those John Wayne movies, so they're still around anyway. We're going to move back to having just two services again, Army and Navy.

Maybe you ought to bring yourself up to date. We now have five services, including the Coast Guard and the Space Force. You will never see a day when the US only has two services. The Army, Navy and Marine Corps all have air capabilities, but not to Air Force level.

 

[DudleySmith]

Maybe you ought to bring yourself up to date. We now have five services, including the Coast Guard and the Space Force. You will never see a day when the US only has two services. The Army, Navy and Marine Corps all have air capabilities, but not to Air Force level.

Maybe you should look at the trend that shows having so many separate services is unsupportable and unnecessary as air power grows ever more important. We're not going to be a First World Country in a couple of decades, assuming we're not already mostly Second World now.

 

[Vrenn]

Not true.

However, military bases do not recognize state issued Conceal Carry permits. Which should be obvious as they are Federal and not State property. And possession of course is not allowed in any work or living areas.

But I have absolutely no idea where you get the idea it is a felony to bring a weapon on base, it is not. I knew a lot of single soldiers who stored their personal weapons in the unit armory, and we often took off early on Fridays and went to the base range to blow off some rounds with our personal weapons. We just had to do some paperwork first with the PMO before we brought them on base.

Try telling the truth and not passing lies. As well as sticking to the topic itself.

I pulled into Pete Field, Colo. in 1974 and had my "Arsenal" in the back of my van. The Van was a 1965 Dodge Window Van so it wasn't the most secure vehicle for the weapons. Had I just had the handguns, I could have placed them under the front seats or under the engine cover. But the Rifles and Shotgun were the problem. The Armory was already shut down for the day so I called the 1st Shirt and told him I refused to leave them in that vehicle over night in that parking lot. He allowed me to quietly sneak them into the barracks for the evening and get them to the armory the next morning. There were no laws broken. But had I elected to leave them in that Van and they were stolen, both me and the 1st Shirt would have shared a prison cell in Ft Levenworth.

 

[Vrenn]

Maybe you ought to bring yourself up to date. We now have five services, including the Coast Guard and the Space Force. You will never see a day when the US only has two services. The Army, Navy and Marine Corps all have air capabilities, but not to Air Force level.

I have served with both the Army and Marines where we supported both. And I will tell you this. There is a huge difference in missions between the Army and the Marines. The short of it is, if you want it done right now using a scalpel, you call a marine. If you want it done hard and fast where it doesn't have to be pretty but it has to get done by a large force,you call on the Army. An old joke comes to mind

The 4 Star tells all that he wants that Hill.

The Army sends in 70,000 crack troops and attacks it and presents it to the General/Adm over the radio
The Navy bombards it and presents it to the 4 star over the Radio
The AF sends in it'[s bomber force and levels it and makes a nice parking lot and presents that to the 4 Star.
The Marines send in one Gunny who walks into the 4 Stars office carrying the hill and says,"Where you want it?"

 

[Missourian]

As a dependent for 18 years, I could easily be a source for the fact that all branches of US military service are the biggest socialist organizations in the world. Socialist countries can't even get close.

Well there you go...want socialism...join the Army.

Now that you mention it...it does remind me of socialism.

You belong to them. Every building you work in, the tools you use, the vehicles you drive, all your equipment...even the clothes on your back and the boots on your feet belongs to them...

They tell you where to go, where to live, what time to get up, what your job will be, what you can wear, how long your hair can be and what styles you are allowed to wear it in, what your schedule is for the day, what caste (enlisted, nco, officer, general officer) you belong to, what you're going to eat, when you're going to eat and where you're going to eat.. when you get to sleep, what information you are required to know and recite on demand...when, where, with whom and how long you are required to exercise...what information you must know and be able to recite on demand, including all of your leaders... allows punishment dictated by a single individual in a leadership role... control whether or not you may leave your assigned area... control whether or not you may transfer, change your profession or even leave at the end of your contract (stoploss)... demand absolute submission to authority...

...and last but not least an extreme curtailing of your individual rights...up to and including your very right to live.

I agree...very similar to socialism.

 

[DudleySmith]

Nobody said they haven't dreamed up 'missions' for the Corp so they can justify a budget; they just can't dream up missions that are unique enough that the Army can't train units to do and have done so in the past., the cute lil anecdotal stories aside.

 

[Dayton3]

Maybe you should look at the trend that shows having so many separate services is unsupportable

What do you mean by that?

 

[Vrenn]

Nobody said they haven't dreamed up 'missions' for the Corp so they can justify a budget; they just can't dream up missions that are unique enough that the Army can't train units to do and have done so in the past., the cute lil anecdotal stories aside.

What they did was got the Marines away from what it was intended for in the first place. It became like the Army. Today, there is talk about turning that clock back and making it into a meaner, leaner more deadly force and leave the heavy lifting to the Army.

 

[Mushroom]

So how is all the electronic warfare stuff working on stealth technology?

The Russian military has been jamming some U.S. military drones operating in the skies over Syria, seriously affecting American military operations, according to four U.S. officials.

The Russians began jamming some smaller U.S. drones several weeks ago, the officials said, after a series of suspected chemical weapons attacks on civilians in rebel-held eastern Ghouta. The Russian military was concerned the U.S. military would retaliate for the attacks and began jamming the GPS systems of drones operating in the area, the officials explained.

Russia is jamming American drones in Syria, officials say

Four U.S. officials said Russia's signal scrambling has seriously affected military operations.

www.nbcnews.com

A drone operated by a group monitoring the war in eastern Ukraine conducted an emergency landing Thursday after its GPS was jammed, a problem that has increasingly plagued its drones since March.

The OSCE’s drones conduct surveillance of the line of contact between Ukrainian government troops and the Russian-backed separatists, while also mapping minefields and tracking the movement of weapons and troops on both sides.

The drone doesn’t appear to have been damaged after landing in a field near its base in Stepanivka, a town about 30 miles from the contested Donbass region, occupied by Russian-backed seperatist forces.

Jamming Strikes OSCE Drones Tracking Russian Forces - Breaking Defense

Since March, the OSCE’s “long-range UAVs have been experiencing increased levels of GPS signal interference on take-off and landing, affecting both of their GPS receivers,” the group said in a statement.

breakingdefense.com

In May 2018, the Izvestiya newspaper quoted unnamed sources within the Ministry of Defense as saying that Divnomorye was expected to begin operational deployment later in the year. It was said to be capable of jamming radars and “other on-board radio-electronic systems” of aircraft (such as the Е-3 AWACS, Е-2 Hawkeye, and Е-8 JSTAR), helicopters, and drones and, in addition to that, would also be used against “spy satellites.” Its range was given as “several hundred kilometers” and it was expected to combine the electronic reconnaissance and electronic attack functions of Moskva-1, Krasukha-2, and Krasukha-4. All the equipment could reportedly be mounted on a single truck and be readied for use within a matter of minutes, making Divnomorye “highly mobile” and “virtually invulnerable.”

The Space Review: Russia gears up for electronic warfare in space (part 1)

In case you did not realize this, "Stealth Technology" does not rely upon electronics at all. They are not the MiG-31 Firefox that rely upon electronics to remain undetected. So why even trying to bring that up, I have absolutely no idea other than you keep missing the target, so just throw out some more random junk.

 

[Mushroom]

Guadalcanal and D-Day showed the Army can do the job.

Oh yes, Guadalcanal. Where they were largely brought in for mopping up operations after most of the island was secure. You are aware that in the Pacific, the Army was really only involved in 3 major operations, and in none of them were the landing forces. You are aware of that, right?

As usual, your factual knowledge of history is staggering.

 

[Mushroom]

They have a pretty effective lobby and propaganda organizations, yes. They can merely have their budget cut way down, and go back to guarding those ships and bases while they're in port again without having to change any laws.

You really do not know this military stuff, do you?

The Marines have not guarded Navy bases for around 30 years. The same with ships, that mission ended decades ago.

However, they are commonly known as the "Presidents 911 force" for a reason. Unlike the Army, the President can simply order the Marines to go anywhere in the world, without the permission of Congress. And this is critical because it is this very ability that the State Department relies upon, as the Marines also guard the embassies and consulates.

When forces are needed almost anywhere, from Haiti and Lebanon to almost anywhere else, it is the Marines that go first, for that very reason.

I suggest you try actually learning some of these things, because making such mistakes looks really silly.

 

[Mushroom]

Maybe you should look at the trend that shows having so many separate services is unsupportable and unnecessary as air power grows ever more important.

And exactly which countries have disbanded entire branches of their military?

 

[Mushroom]

I have served with both the Army and Marines where we supported both. And I will tell you this. There is a huge difference in missions between the Army and the Marines. The short of it is, if you want it done right now using a scalpel, you call a marine. If you want it done hard and fast where it doesn't have to be pretty but it has to get done by a large force,you call on the Army. An old joke comes to mind

There have even been studies back in the 1950's into disbanding the Corps. And the Army basically shook their head and said they could not do it.

And that was finally laid to rest during the Korean War.

There are huge differences between the two branches. The Army rarely operates at any level below Brigade or Division strength. Tens of thousands involved in operations, with massive formations and a logistics train to match.

The Corps however very often operates with single Battalions. Tell the Army they are sending out a single Battalion to run an operation and they will likely tell you to go pound sand, they are not going to do it. They operate at the level of Brigade, Division, Corps, and Army. Not at a Battalion level. They do not train that way, they do not operate that way. That is why in WWII they were sent to Europe, where hundreds of thousands were needed to bash their way into Europe.

When the mission was to take islands, they used the Marines.

And it is like that even today. When the Marines were sent to Lebanon to support UN forces in 1982, they sent a Battalion of Marines. Specifically BLT 2-8. In other words, the 2nd Battalion, 8th Marine Regiment, 2nd Marine Division. Who then in 1983 were relieved by BLT 1-8. They were the ones there when the suicide bomber drove a truck in and killed over 300 Marines and Sailors.

Even the Army realized that they would have to change radically if they were to even try to take on the duties of the Marines. And in essence, create entire Divisions that were almost completely independent of the other Infantry Divisions of the Army. Specifically, to learn and operate as Naval Infantry, doing amphibious landings as well as helicopter operations. As well as operating aboard ships for months at a time and not just using them as a taxi as they always had in the past.

Tell a Regiment of Soldiers they are getting on an LHA, LPH or LSD and they are going to be living there for the next 6+ months, living stacked 3-5 high in a sleeping area no bigger than a cot and the morale and other issues would be huge. The Army has never really operated with the Navy, not in over 200 years. Even in WWII, far more were hauled around by the Merchant Marine than were moved by the Navy.

And they literally do not even speak the same language, or have traditions anywhere close to each other.

Then, there is the Air Force. They would fight it also, as there is no way they are letting the Army ever get their hands on Marine Aviation. And the Navy sure as hell does not want it, like the Air Force they want supersonic fighters to go screaming at ships or enemy air bases. Not "low and slow" aircraft with the primary mission of air to mud close air support.

I also have served with both, in fact over a decade in both. 10 years as a Marine grunt, and 14 years in the Army. And the two are vastly different. They have never operated in the same way.

 

[Concerned American]

Oh yes, Guadalcanal. Where they were largely brought in for mopping up operations after most of the island was secure. You are aware that in the Pacific, the Army was really only involved in 3 major operations, and in none of them were the landing forces. You are aware of that, right?

As usual, your factual knowledge of history is staggering.

Semper Fi.

 

[Mushroom]

They don't have a mission any more. Guadalcanal and D-Day showed the Army can do the job.

Oh, and to give an even better idea of the "job" the Army did on Guadalcanal.

The Marines arrived on 7 August 1942 with the 1st Marine Division. And over the next 3 months staged at least 6 other major amphibious assaults on the islands in the chain.

In late November, a single Battalion of Army soldiers arrived to secure Henderson field, as it was already becoming a major Army Air Corps base. And the Army is the branch in charge of securing Air Corps bases.

Finally in mid-December after almost 4 months of constant fighting, the islands were declared largely secure, and the 1st Marine Division was relieved and the US XIV Corps was sent in to relieve them and to complete the mop-up operations.

The Army did no hostile beach landings there, by the time they arrived the beaches were all secure. And they were there to secure either Army Air Corps facilities, or to relieve the exhausted Marines after months of brutal fighting.

On Okinawa, the only landings the Army did was the largely unopposed one at Kerama-Shoto, a group of islands 20 miles off shore to set up logistics support and a communications station. Over 3,000 soldiers went ashore, and the only resistance was around 600 IJA soldiers at the small airfield in the center of the island.

For the main landing on Northern Okinawa, the 2nd Marine Division landed at Hagushi Bay, then once the beach was secured did the Army XXIV Corps land. The Marines mostly fought the backbone of IJN forces, especially along the Shuri Line, while the Army was mostly involved in securing Kadena Airfield, and the area around it so it could be used by the Air Corps.

There is a reason why when General MacArthur wanted to secure Inchon during the Korean War, he called up the Marines for the task. Not the Army, the Marines. Because they have the experience and that is their specialty.

 

[basquebromance]

Either your daughters are strong enough to compete with men in sports, or your daughters should not be in the US military

 

[Dayton3]

Either your daughters are strong enough to compete with men in sports, or your daughters should not be in the US military

Military service is not remotely like any sport.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

They don't have a mission any more. Guadalcanal and D-Day showed the Army can do the job. They have a lot of propaganda going for them, and all those John Wayne movies, so they're still around anyway. We're going to move back to having just two services again, Army and Navy.

The Army recently started the process of divesting itself of all ships, boats, and landing craft.

The Marines just got rid of all their tanks.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You really do not know this military stuff, do you?

The Marines have not guarded Navy bases for around 30 years. The same with ships, that mission ended decades ago.

However, they are commonly known as the "Presidents 911 force" for a reason. Unlike the Army, the President can simply order the Marines to go anywhere in the world, without the permission of Congress. And this is critical because it is this very ability that the State Department relies upon, as the Marines also guard the embassies and consulates.

When forces are needed almost anywhere, from Haiti and Lebanon to almost anywhere else, it is the Marines that go first, for that very reason.

I suggest you try actually learning some of these things, because making such mistakes looks really silly.

Bullshit!