CDZ Israel and Palestine

[irosie91]

I'm not spending enough time on this to fill in ALL the details of course. But the main point is -- It's NOT just an Israeli problem/solution.. No way things move off square one without a regional solution..

You have just been conditioned to BELIEVE that Israel's experience with Palestin

Ahhh -- BUT --- Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon CAN tolerate a ZIONIST ENTITY in the Middle East. That's why they are VITAL to any solution that gets the Palestinians some autonomy...

wrong Hezbollah occupied Lebanon cannot tolerate a Zionist entity in the middle east, Muslim brotherhood Egypt cannot -----so Egypt VACILLATES over time and
Jordan is-------a pawn. In fact even TURKEY has decided to NOT TOLERATE
for now------as has IRAN. -----the rest of the muslim countries would remain a cradle for terrorists who cannot "tolerate"

Egypt and Jordan are ALREADY coordinating with Israel for the "neighborhood watch" program. Seems like you are the only entity that can't tolerate a Zionist Entity in that neighborhood..

Turkey and Iran are not important to THIS problem.. Other than to make it clear to Iran that their proxy involvement in the Palestinian situation is no longer welcome. Let them try to disrupt a solid partnership like this and see what happens..

The PLO cannot self govern as they have tried and failed. Perhaps the best would be Saudi leadership for a decade or so.

When I said "Interim Govt" or "authority" that has nothing to do with Fatah, PLO, or Hamas. It is a temporary govt set up by the partners. (Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon). Literally a new reboot. Only to the extent of providing stability for the Palestinians and get Israel out of the Occupation biz. It IS a form of temporary occupation, but with the goal of creating and encouraging a true Palestinian state eventually..

I see Egypt and Jordan is rather peaceful so yes a force by them could take care of it. BUT that being said would those folks follow that leadership any better?

Egypt and Jordan are not the only "other" players and Egypt and Jordan are CERTAINLY NOT RELIABLE

 

[flacaltenn]

Let's try another RoadMap..

1) Have Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Israel collectively and in full trust set up an interim Palestinian Auth..

2) Use military and police from the Arab partners for local law/order and strategic defense in the territories.

3) Disarm any faction that opposes the Interim Govt. == INCLUDING Hamas or any other radicalized foreign proxy that interferes in the process.

4) Restart the development of the Gaza seaport and airport under temporary Egyptian control.

5) Construct an elevated Transit Autobahn between the WB and Gaza. One interchange with access to Jerusalem. Don't tell me this can't be done. I've driven that land.

6) Negotiate exchanges of land including enlarging the Gaza Strip. And trading portions of the Sinai for "demilitarized" buffer zones between Israel and Palestine.

7) Make Israeli "settlers" aware that they will be under the control and protection of the Interim Govt and it's successors.

8) Plan and execute an Arab expansion zone in East Jerusalem which includes infrastructure for the new interim govt.. Make plans for a permanent coalition security force in that city..

9) Borders at Gaza will open under Authority customs when internal insurrection threats are gone.

After 5 or 8 years -- transition this to complete Pali control and start normalization of borders and trade with Israel and the rest of the world. What nation wouldn't kick in $$ and help to make that happen..

THAT plan could work... But the US won't push it because our politicians would get no credit for it's success.

will not work-----because no muslim country can tolerate a ZIONIST ENTITY in the
middle east------they have so declared

Ahhh -- BUT --- Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon CAN tolerate a ZIONIST ENTITY in the Middle East. That's why they are VITAL to any solution that gets the Palestinians some autonomy...

wrong Hezbollah occupied Lebanon cannot tolerate a Zionist entity in the middle east, Muslim brotherhood Egypt cannot -----so Egypt VACILLATES over time and
Jordan is-------a pawn. In fact even TURKEY has decided to NOT TOLERATE
for now------as has IRAN. -----the rest of the muslim countries would remain a cradle for terrorists who cannot "tolerate"

Egypt and Jordan are ALREADY coordinating with Israel for the "neighborhood watch" program. Seems like you are the only entity that can't tolerate a Zionist Entity in that neighborhood..

Turkey and Iran are not important to THIS problem.. Other than to make it clear to Iran that their proxy involvement in the Palestinian situation is no longer welcome. Let them try to disrupt a solid partnership like this and see what happens..

you are developing a career in STAND UP COMEDY??? Iran----you are
not WELCOMED------do not involve yourselves --------- get your boy NUS KHARAH ALLAH OUT of the southern Lebanon with his long range missile launchers loaded with BABY BRAIN SMASHING BOMBS-------because Flacal says
"IRAN ---YOU DON'T COUNT" and-----no doubt-----the imams of Lebanon and Jordan and Egypt will ANOUNCE in all the mosques thereof-----"WE ARE STINKING LIARS-----ISRAEL HAD A RIGHT TO EXIST AS A JEWISH COUNTRY----we were joking all these centuries"

Just like God wanted to kill off all the old-thinkers before entering the land of milk/honey -- maybe a whole generation of ineffective baiting and hate needs to go before we see the path to success here..

Israel And Jordan Stepping Up Military, Defense Cooperation? Israeli And Jordanian Aircraft Fly in Tandem To US

Have Jordan and Israel finally overcome decades of poor diplomatic relations? Military observers are speculating about a new era of relations between the two countries after Israeli air force fuel tankers escorted Jordanian fighter jets across the Atlantic Ocean earlier this week to participate in military exercises in the western United States, an American website devoted to military aviation news reports.

Foxtrot Alpha reports that five Jordanian air force F-16s were seen flying alongside Israel air force KC-707 fuel tankers in the mid-Atlantic. The fleet of aircraft were traveling to Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada, where they were scheduled to take part in an air-to-air combat training exercise hosted by the United States for its military allies.


The aircraft travel came after a U.S. official told Reuters last month that Israel had gifted retired Cobra combat helicopters to Jordan to help fight off militants battling along the Syrian and Iraqi borders. "These choppers are for border security," the official, who requested anonymity due to the sensitivity of the issue, told Reuters.

It's a flirtation. First a daisy, then a dinner, maybe a few military helicopters, and then who knows? Maybe a ring and Chupah..

 

[DarkFury]

I'm not spending enough time on this to fill in ALL the details of course. But the main point is -- It's NOT just an Israeli problem/solution.. No way things move off square one without a regional solution..

You have just been conditioned to BELIEVE that Israel's experience with Palestin

wrong Hezbollah occupied Lebanon cannot tolerate a Zionist entity in the middle east, Muslim brotherhood Egypt cannot -----so Egypt VACILLATES over time and
Jordan is-------a pawn. In fact even TURKEY has decided to NOT TOLERATE
for now------as has IRAN. -----the rest of the muslim countries would remain a cradle for terrorists who cannot "tolerate"

Egypt and Jordan are ALREADY coordinating with Israel for the "neighborhood watch" program. Seems like you are the only entity that can't tolerate a Zionist Entity in that neighborhood..

Turkey and Iran are not important to THIS problem.. Other than to make it clear to Iran that their proxy involvement in the Palestinian situation is no longer welcome. Let them try to disrupt a solid partnership like this and see what happens..

The PLO cannot self govern as they have tried and failed. Perhaps the best would be Saudi leadership for a decade or so.

When I said "Interim Govt" or "authority" that has nothing to do with Fatah, PLO, or Hamas. It is a temporary govt set up by the partners. (Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon). Literally a new reboot. Only to the extent of providing stability for the Palestinians and get Israel out of the Occupation biz. It IS a form of temporary occupation, but with the goal of creating and encouraging a true Palestinian state eventually..

I see Egypt and Jordan is rather peaceful so yes a force by them could take care of it. BUT that being said would those folks follow that leadership any better?

Egypt and Jordan are not the only "other" players and Egypt and Jordan are CERTAINLY NOT RELIABLE

Okay so who are you going to get to watch over this birth of a nation?

 

[irosie91]

I'm not spending enough time on this to fill in ALL the details of course. But the main point is -- It's NOT just an Israeli problem/solution.. No way things move off square one without a regional solution..

You have just been conditioned to BELIEVE that Israel's experience with Palestin

Egypt and Jordan are ALREADY coordinating with Israel for the "neighborhood watch" program. Seems like you are the only entity that can't tolerate a Zionist Entity in that neighborhood..

Turkey and Iran are not important to THIS problem.. Other than to make it clear to Iran that their proxy involvement in the Palestinian situation is no longer welcome. Let them try to disrupt a solid partnership like this and see what happens..

The PLO cannot self govern as they have tried and failed. Perhaps the best would be Saudi leadership for a decade or so.

When I said "Interim Govt" or "authority" that has nothing to do with Fatah, PLO, or Hamas. It is a temporary govt set up by the partners. (Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon). Literally a new reboot. Only to the extent of providing stability for the Palestinians and get Israel out of the Occupation biz. It IS a form of temporary occupation, but with the goal of creating and encouraging a true Palestinian state eventually..

I see Egypt and Jordan is rather peaceful so yes a force by them could take care of it. BUT that being said would those folks follow that leadership any better?

Egypt and Jordan are not the only "other" players and Egypt and Jordan are CERTAINLY NOT RELIABLE

Okay so who are you going to get to watch over this birth of a nation?

to what "nation" do you refer?

 

[Billo_Really]

But then again, there would have been no refugees if the Arabs had accepted the Partition Plan. It was that easy. When the resolution was announced, Arabs began fleeing. A leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, Hajj Nimer el-Khatib recounted how Arab soldiers began mistreating the residents there, he said and I quote:

“They robbed individuals and homes. Life was of little value, and the honor of women was defiled. This state of affairs led many [Arab] residents to leave the city under the protection of British tanks.”

Moreover John Bagot Glubb, the commander of Jordan’s Arab Legion stated that villages and towns were being abandoned before the threat of war reached those areas:

“Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war.”

It doesn't matter who was living where, the Arabs were responsible for dispossessing Arabs and driving them out of their villages.

When the Jews did seize Tiberias, the Jewish Community Council is quoted by the New York Times issuing a statement saying:

"We did not dispossess them; they themselves chose this course. . . . Let no citizen touch their property.”

New York Times, (April 23, 1948)

Be reminded, that the cities the Zionists took (Haifa, Tiberias and Jaffa) were theirs according to the UN Partition Scheme:

Now, if you want to cite UN General Assembly Resolution 194, which Palestinians, and their supporters, cite as granting them a right of return...you'll be displeased to know that it never addressed the rights of the 700,000 Palestinians being "denied" entry into Israel.

1) In the first 15 paragraphs of Resolution 194, the first six sections dealt with ways to achieve a truce.

2) The next four paragraphs dealt with the way Jerusalem and accompanying areas could be demilitarized.

3) In so doing, the resolution called on all parties to allow for and protect the free access of holy sites by refugees, Arab or Jew.

4) On Paragraph 11 it mentions "that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors, should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property." It instructed the Coalition Commission to "facilitate the repatriation, resettlement repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation."

5) It is a misconception that the "refugee clause" refers only to the Arabs. It never granted an "unconditional right of return" to Palestinian Arabs. It instead addressed all of the refugees affected by the war.

You also flatly ignore the roughly 800,000 Jewish refugees who were expelled or forced out of their homes in by the Arabs. Funny how that never gets mentioned.

Zionists wanted a Jewish state in an area that was 90% Arab, but you say it wasn't the Zionists who forced out over 700,000 Arab residents from that area. You're saying it was the Arab armies (who came in to protect those residents), who actually forced them out? There's something wrong with that picture.

And this is it...

Israeli propaganda has largely relinquished the claim that the Palestinian exodus of 1948 was ‘self-inspired’. Official circles implicitly concede that the Arab population fled as a result of Israeli action — whether directly, as in the case of Lydda and Ramleh, or indirectly, due to the panic that and similar actions (the Deir Yassin massacre) inspired in Arab population centers throughout Palestine. However, even though the historical record has been grudgingly set straight, the Israeli establishment still refused to accept moral or political responsibility for the refugee problem it — or its predecessors — actively created.” Peretz Kidron, quoted in “Blaming the Victims,” ed. Said and Hitchens.​

In addition to that...

“The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) monitored all Middle Eastern broadcasts throughout 1948. The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British Museum. There was not a single order or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine, from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is a repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put.” Erskine Childers, British researcher, quoted in Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.”​

 

[DarkFury]

I'm not spending enough time on this to fill in ALL the details of course. But the main point is -- It's NOT just an Israeli problem/solution.. No way things move off square one without a regional solution..

You have just been conditioned to BELIEVE that Israel's experience with Palestin

The PLO cannot self govern as they have tried and failed. Perhaps the best would be Saudi leadership for a decade or so.

When I said "Interim Govt" or "authority" that has nothing to do with Fatah, PLO, or Hamas. It is a temporary govt set up by the partners. (Egypt, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon). Literally a new reboot. Only to the extent of providing stability for the Palestinians and get Israel out of the Occupation biz. It IS a form of temporary occupation, but with the goal of creating and encouraging a true Palestinian state eventually..

I see Egypt and Jordan is rather peaceful so yes a force by them could take care of it. BUT that being said would those folks follow that leadership any better?

Egypt and Jordan are not the only "other" players and Egypt and Jordan are CERTAINLY NOT RELIABLE

Okay so who are you going to get to watch over this birth of a nation?

to what "nation" do you refer?

If there is a birth of a new nation somebody will HAVE to oversee it. They have tried and FAILED to do it themselves. They lack the money the skills and the education for self rule.

As an American tax payer I say okay ONE MORE TRY. After that? I don't care.

 

[irosie91]

But then again, there would have been no refugees if the Arabs had accepted the Partition Plan. It was that easy. When the resolution was announced, Arabs began fleeing. A leader of the Arab National Committee in Haifa, Hajj Nimer el-Khatib recounted how Arab soldiers began mistreating the residents there, he said and I quote:

“They robbed individuals and homes. Life was of little value, and the honor of women was defiled. This state of affairs led many [Arab] residents to leave the city under the protection of British tanks.”

Moreover John Bagot Glubb, the commander of Jordan’s Arab Legion stated that villages and towns were being abandoned before the threat of war reached those areas:

“Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war.”

It doesn't matter who was living where, the Arabs were responsible for dispossessing Arabs and driving them out of their villages.

When the Jews did seize Tiberias, the Jewish Community Council is quoted by the New York Times issuing a statement saying:

"We did not dispossess them; they themselves chose this course. . . . Let no citizen touch their property.”

New York Times, (April 23, 1948)

Be reminded, that the cities the Zionists took (Haifa, Tiberias and Jaffa) were theirs according to the UN Partition Scheme:

Now, if you want to cite UN General Assembly Resolution 194, which Palestinians, and their supporters, cite as granting them a right of return...you'll be displeased to know that it never addressed the rights of the 700,000 Palestinians being "denied" entry into Israel.

1) In the first 15 paragraphs of Resolution 194, the first six sections dealt with ways to achieve a truce.

2) The next four paragraphs dealt with the way Jerusalem and accompanying areas could be demilitarized.

3) In so doing, the resolution called on all parties to allow for and protect the free access of holy sites by refugees, Arab or Jew.

4) On Paragraph 11 it mentions "that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors, should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property." It instructed the Coalition Commission to "facilitate the repatriation, resettlement repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of the refugees and the payment of compensation."

5) It is a misconception that the "refugee clause" refers only to the Arabs. It never granted an "unconditional right of return" to Palestinian Arabs. It instead addressed all of the refugees affected by the war.

You also flatly ignore the roughly 800,000 Jewish refugees who were expelled or forced out of their homes in by the Arabs. Funny how that never gets mentioned.

Zionists wanted a Jewish state in an area that was 90% Arab, but you say it wasn't the Zionists who forced out over 700,000 Arab residents from that area. You're saying it was the Arab armies (who came in to protect those residents), who actually forced them out? There's something wrong with that picture.

And this is it...

Israeli propaganda has largely relinquished the claim that the Palestinian exodus of 1948 was ‘self-inspired’. Official circles implicitly concede that the Arab population fled as a result of Israeli action — whether directly, as in the case of Lydda and Ramleh, or indirectly, due to the panic that and similar actions (the Deir Yassin massacre) inspired in Arab population centers throughout Palestine. However, even though the historical record has been grudgingly set straight, the Israeli establishment still refused to accept moral or political responsibility for the refugee problem it — or its predecessors — actively created.” Peretz Kidron, quoted in “Blaming the Victims,” ed. Said and Hitchens.​

In addition to that...

“The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) monitored all Middle Eastern broadcasts throughout 1948. The records, and companion ones by a United States monitoring unit, can be seen at the British Museum. There was not a single order or appeal, or suggestion about evacuation from Palestine, from any Arab radio station, inside or outside Palestine, in 1948. There is a repeated monitored record of Arab appeals, even flat orders, to the civilians of Palestine to stay put.” Erskine Childers, British researcher, quoted in Sami Hadawi, “Bitter Harvest.”​

you continue to quote propaganda. I am always amused by that claim ---the brits monitored radio broadcasts-------I got news for you------ the overwhelming majority or arabs in Palestine did not own radios-------there is a very efficient "BROADCAST" method in use for centuries in the Middle east----in the "arab" world----------for muslims it is the mosque and for jews it is the synagogue-----
the custom is to GO THERE EVERY MORNING FOR "PRAYERS"-------in fact
it is the NEWS ROOM for both groups. Try to cope with reality

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I like the Jordan and Egypt agenda for keeping the peace.

Wouldn't mind seeing Syria and Turkey being included to up the mix to keep them all honest in enforcing the peace.

*****SMILE*****

 

[DarkFury]

I like the Jordan and Egypt agenda for keeping the peace.

Wouldn't mind seeing Syria and Turkey being included to up the mix to keep them all honest in enforcing the peace.

*****SMILE*****

Syria is way to screwed up right now to help anybody. I lived over there in the late 70s and Arabs do not like Turks.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

I like the Jordan and Egypt agenda for keeping the peace.

Wouldn't mind seeing Syria and Turkey being included to up the mix to keep them all honest in enforcing the peace.

*****SMILE*****

Syria is way to screwed up right now to help anybody. I lived over there in the late 70s and Arabs do not like Turks.

I agree that Syria needs some major work... Perhaps this initiative might help that. Border patrol by joint forces from all.

However there's plenty of Muslims in Turkey... If they can't get over hating each other then there's not much chance of this working.

*****SMILE*****

 

[TemplarKormac]

The millions of Arabs living in Israel says otherwise.

Well lets just see, shall we?

From 1948 until 1966 the Palestinians in Israel lived under military rule and in fact under military occupation. Palestinians faced restrictions on the freedom of movement, restrictions on the freedom of press and opinion and legal confiscation of land and property. Under military law Palestinians faced the possibility of deportations, illegal detentions without trial, curfews, house arrests etc.​

They don't treat Jews like that in Israel.

An example of an explicit discriminatory law is the “Law of Return” which grants every Jew, wherever he or she resides, automatic Israeli citizenship if desired, at the expense of refugees and stateless persons who have lived on the land for generations.
​

That's one of Israel's apartheid laws.

Recently the Knesset adopted the “Nationality and Entry into Israel (Temporary Order)” law that bars Palestinians married to Israelis from living with their spouses in Israel. Since the outbreak of the Intifada the issuing of residence permits for Palestinian spouses has been frozen “in light of the security situation and because of the implication(s) of the immigration and the establishment in Israel of foreigners of Palestinian decent.​

That's another apartheid law.

I can't imagine you think Arab-Israeli's would approve of being treated like that?

I wonder why Palestinians aren't treated equally in Israel? Let's just think about that for a minute. How do you expect a country to act when each Palestinian could be a potential terrorist? How would that influence their laws? When you're living under constant threat of terrorism day in and day out, you're not going to treat Arabs, much less Palestinians, the same way, and you're sure as hell not going to let them anywhere near the core of your government or in your military.

Don't blame them one bit. The law barring Palestinians from performing military service is a no-brainer. You don't have a clue if one Palestinian soldier in the IDF could take advantage of his status and go on a shooting spree. It's not willful discrimination, it's a lack of trust.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The millions of Arabs living in Israel says otherwise.

Well lets just see, shall we?

From 1948 until 1966 the Palestinians in Israel lived under military rule and in fact under military occupation. Palestinians faced restrictions on the freedom of movement, restrictions on the freedom of press and opinion and legal confiscation of land and property. Under military law Palestinians faced the possibility of deportations, illegal detentions without trial, curfews, house arrests etc.​

They don't treat Jews like that in Israel.

An example of an explicit discriminatory law is the “Law of Return” which grants every Jew, wherever he or she resides, automatic Israeli citizenship if desired, at the expense of refugees and stateless persons who have lived on the land for generations.
​

That's one of Israel's apartheid laws.

Recently the Knesset adopted the “Nationality and Entry into Israel (Temporary Order)” law that bars Palestinians married to Israelis from living with their spouses in Israel. Since the outbreak of the Intifada the issuing of residence permits for Palestinian spouses has been frozen “in light of the security situation and because of the implication(s) of the immigration and the establishment in Israel of foreigners of Palestinian decent.​

That's another apartheid law.

I can't imagine you think Arab-Israeli's would approve of being treated like that?

You're confusing Palestinians with Arab Israelis. Plenty of Arabs involved in Israeli govt during the period you quoted. TK was talking about Arabs who have been citizens from way back in time..

This too. I'm referring to all the Arabs currently living in Israel, not necessarily Palestinians.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Since the UNPP (UN Partition Plan) was never implemented, because the Arabs fully rejected it, the Arab territory that would have been given to the Arabs... no longer belonged to them or rather, it was never given to them. The didn't want it.

It wasn't a fair deal. Who gives 70% of the land, to 10% of the population? Why would an overwhelming Arab majority submit to a strictly Jewish government? That makes no sense.

You're referring to the Palestine survey done by the British in 1948.

However, 80 percent of the Jewish National Home and the historic land of Palestine became Transjordan as defined by the League of Nations. Jews were barred from settling in Transjordan. The remaining 20 percent of the land was divided into two states. When Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950, the Arabs controlled close to 80 percent of that, and the Palestinian Jews (not the ones you're referring to) only 17.5. The majority of the land given to Israel happened to be the Negev Desert. Basically uninhabitable.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Ghoury was lying.

How? How are you going to prove it? That's because Ghoury wasn't lying.

The reason the Arab armies went in, was to restore law and order after the British vacated. So why would they drive off the very people they came into help?

In reality, it was a slew of factors, as sited by IDF Intelligence at the time, included the Haganah offensives into Arab settlements, appearance of Arab irregulars, fear of invasion by Arab forces, and orders by Arab institutions and "gangs" to vacate the area. Just as Ghoury explained.

A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":

1. Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
2. The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements... (... especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).
3. Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
4. Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
5. Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
6. Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
7. Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
8. The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
9. Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
10. Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
11. Various local factors and general fear of the future.[6]

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As the old saying goes, "war is hell."

 

[TemplarKormac]

That's one of Israel's apartheid laws.

Lol. If a pro-Palestinian propaganda site is all you have to prove "Israeli apartheid" then your argument is pretty feeble at this point.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You want a peace plan? Well, here it is...

1) Stop protecting Israel with our veto in the UNSC
2) Stop all weapons shipments to Israel
3) Freeze all Israeli assets in US banks
4) Ban AIPAC
5) Submit a resolution to the UNSC telling Israel they got 90 days to end the occupation and blockade, or that decision will no longer be theirs to make
6) On the 91st day, send in the Marines and drive the Israeli's back to Israel
7) Then round up all their white trash settlers and stick them on busses and send them back to Israel
8) Then set up a DMZ along the Green Line and shoot anyone who enters it from either side

That plan will work.

This is "peace" through brute force. Completely untenable.

Addressing these in order as they are listed

1) No. You want us to completely abandon Israel.
2) See 1
3) Have they done something worthy of that?
4) That is unconstitutional.
5) So you're basically wanting to declare war against Israel if they don't submit to your demands?
6) see 5
7) White trash?
8) What is this? The Cold War? Need I remind you about the Berlin Wall?

This plan will most certainly not work and will be something Israel will never agree to. To put it mildly, did you let your emotions supplant your better judgement?

The whole goal is peace, not further agitation of the conflict. Think about that. What is to be gained by using our military and diplomatic power to bully Israel?

 

[Billo_Really]

I wonder why Palestinians aren't treated equally in Israel? Let's just think about that for a minute. How do you expect a country to act when each Palestinian could be a potential terrorist? How would that influence their laws? When you're living under constant threat of terrorism day in and day out, you're not going to treat Arabs, much less Palestinians, the same way, and you're sure as hell not going to let them anywhere near the core of your government or in your military.

Don't blame them one bit. The law barring Palestinians from performing military service is a no-brainer. You don't have a clue if one Palestinian soldier in the IDF could take advantage of his status and go on a shooting spree. It's not willful discrimination, it's a lack of trust.

You go from saying there is no apartheid, to explaining why there is apartheid, then finish by defending apartheid laws.

Treating every Palestinian as though they could be a potential terrorist, is "profiling".

Nobody deserves to be treated this way!





Continuing to beat the man, after he's been put in restraints, shows the dark side of Israeli society in full bloom. The IDF in that video remind me of the Gestapo. It is just sick to watch.

But here's the problem, people who can watch that and think nothing of it. Or people who try to defend the actions of the IDF, like it is okay to beat an unarmed man in restraints?

 

[Billo_Really]

This is "peace" through brute force. Completely untenable.

Addressing these in order as they are listed

1) No. You want us to completely abandon Israel.
2) See 1
3) Have they done something worthy of that?
4) That is unconstitutional.
5) So you're basically wanting to declare war against Israel if they don't submit to your demands?
6) see 5
7) White trash?
8) What is this? The Cold War? Need I remind you about the Berlin Wall?

This plan will most certainly not work and will be something Israel will never agree to. To put it mildly, did you let your emotions supplant your better judgement?

The whole goal is peace, not further agitation of the conflict. Think about that. What is to be gained by using our military and diplomatic power to bully Israel?

My peace plan is based on the following premise:

Enough is enough. After almost 50 years, it is clear Israel has no intention of complying with international law or respecting human rights. To allow this situation to continue, is tantamount to allowing Hitler to annex Poland, which is completely unacceptable. Since the Israeli's will not end the occupation voluntarily, then they should be forced to; no different than forcing the Germans to end the occupation of France. Enough is enough.​

It is my personal opinion, the time for talking is over. Israel clearly will not negotiate in good faith. I get it! They called the game, so lets play ball!

 

[Billo_Really]

Lol. If a pro-Palestinian propaganda site is all you have to prove "Israeli apartheid" then your argument is pretty feeble at this point.

Ad hominems are not a valid argument.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Treating every Palestinian as though they could be a potential terrorist, is "profiling".

Nobody deserves to be treated this way!

Sure, or we could just grant them all amnesty, just like we're doing here for illegals. Just sit back and watch the fireworks. In a situation like that, such thinking is dangerous to the welfare of the citizenry. You aren't a citizen of Israel, you don't understand it one bit.

No Israeli deserves to be blown up by rockets and bombers, or stabbed and shot to death, but you don't care much do you? Surely your passion for the issue doesn't blind you to the fact the Israelis are just as human as the Palestinians are. Some of the things the Palestinians do to them make the beating of that man look humane. Don't lecture me.