Netanyahu sets implementation of Trump’s Gaza relocation plan as new condition for ending war

[Shusha]

The so called Palestinians are stateless and have always been stateless, and always will remain stateless, and there is no such thing as Palestinian citizenship since there is no functioning Palestinian state, however, the Oslo Accords did decide that all Palestinians who were not Israeli citizens would be citizens of the Palestinian Authority.

It is highly unlikely Israel will assert sovereignty over Gaza unless nearly all the Palestinians have left and then those who remained would still be citizens of the Palestinian Authority, foreigners, and as such, would receive permanent resident status, not citizenship.

We are into some pretty funky interpretations of law here. Are they stateless or are they citizens of the Palestinian Authority? Citizens? Nationals? If you fall under the Basic Law of a State that doesn't really exist, can that Basic Law of citizenship be applied? It's pretty funky. It doesn't seem to me that one can practically be both stateless and a citizen of anything - it is one of the other. Pretty interesting to research, though.

That said, should Israel assert sovereignty over the territory of Gaza, I can't see a good faith argument that they should be denied citizenship or prevented from obtaining citizenship. That does reek to me of a permanent segregation.

 

[rylah]

We are into some pretty funky interpretations of law here. Are they stateless or are they citizens of the Palestinian Authority? Citizens? Nationals? If you fall under the Basic Law of a State that doesn't really exist, can that Basic Law of citizenship be applied? It's pretty funky. It doesn't seem to me that one can practically be both stateless and a citizen of anything - it is one of the other. Pretty interesting to research, though.

That said, should Israel assert sovereignty over the territory of Gaza, I can't see a good faith argument that they should be denied citizenship or prevented from obtaining citizenship. That does reek to me of a permanent segregation.

If anyone remains to apply for citizenship.
Or think of Judea Samaria last 20 years,
only without the PA.

Army and new cities.

 

[Shusha]

If anyone remains to apply for citizenship.
Or think of Judea Samaria last 20 years,
only without the PA.

Army and new cities.

Hey, rylah! Good to see you.

If I understand you correctly, yes, if Israel applies sovereignty over Judea and Samaria and Gaza, I can't see that those remaining could be denied citizenship.

 

[toomuchtime_]

We are into some pretty funky interpretations of law here. Are they stateless or are they citizens of the Palestinian Authority? Citizens? Nationals? If you fall under the Basic Law of a State that doesn't really exist, can that Basic Law of citizenship be applied? It's pretty funky. It doesn't seem to me that one can practically be both stateless and a citizen of anything - it is one of the other. Pretty interesting to research, though.

That said, should Israel assert sovereignty over the territory of Gaza, I can't see a good faith argument that they should be denied citizenship or prevented from obtaining citizenship. That does reek to me of a permanent segregation.

When Israel asserted sovereignty over Jerusalem, the Arabs living there were made permanent residents with the right to apply for citizenship, but they did not automatically become citizens, nor should they have. Very few of them have applied for citizenship, and of course those who had a criminal history or connections to terrorism will not receive citizenship. In the case of Gaza, it would be insane to indiscriminately award Israeli citizenship to people who have hoped so fervently for so long to destroy Israel and kill the Jews. No good faith gesture is necessary for these enemies of Israel. It is not clear they even deserve a green card without being vetted first.

 

[rylah]

Well...should I tell you how absurd is reality?

According to a recent report, more than 1,000 Gazans already received Israeli citizenship during the war, and continue applying for it as we speak. My least hope is that they're at least collaborators, rather than a "prank" by some Peace Now clerk.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Well...should I tell you how absurd is reality?

According to a recent report, more than 1,000 Gazans already received Israeli citizenship during the war, and continue applying for it as we speak. My least hope is that they're at least collaborators, rather than a "prank" by some Peace Now clerk.

I would question the accuracy of that report.

 

[Shusha]

When Israel asserted sovereignty over Jerusalem, the Arabs living there were made permanent residents with the right to apply for citizenship, but they did not automatically become citizens, nor should they have.

Important details here since I was discussing denial of citizenship and you are discussing the automatic application of citizenship. The right to apply is a key detail, and one would hope that applications would be denied only under the most serious of circumstances.

Very few of them have applied for citizenship

Yes. As I understand it, many refrain from applying because the Palestinian Authority strips citizenship from those who obtain Israeli citizenship. This can limit access to their families and property in the PA-controlled areas.

In the case of Gaza, it would be insane to indiscriminately award Israeli citizenship to people who have hoped so fervently for so long to destroy Israel and kill the Jews.

Well, yes. I am thinking more in terms of a post-deradicalization era.

 

[rylah]

I would question the accuracy of that report.

Question, of course.


Ayala Hasson, is known for specifically demanding that nothing unsourced is said on her panel, even an opinion. No one questions why she's now only making programs about...nature.

 

[Shusha]

Palestinian pseudo-citizenship can only exist as long as there is a future possibility of a State of Palestine. Once that door is shut by Israel applying sovereignty to the entire territory, there is an obligation to prevent people from statelessness. There can't be a long-term, permanent reality where Arabs in Israel do not have the rights of citizenship.

 

[rylah]

Palestinian pseudo-citizenship can only exist as long as there is a future possibility of a State of Palestine. Once that door is shut by Israel applying sovereignty to the entire territory, there is an obligation to prevent people from statelessness. There can't be a long-term, permanent reality where Arabs in Israel do not have the rights of citizenship.

Ideally, this is what applying sovereignty means.
Assuming civil responsibility, army out, police in.

In practice though, while there's a certain danger of the war evolving to Judea, Samaria and Jordan, civil and voting rights, may end up a relatively insignificant consideration regarding those who remain, if any are let to remain.

More than 80% support transfer.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Important details here since I was discussing denial of citizenship and you are discussing the automatic application of citizenship. The right to apply is a key detail, and one would hope that applications would be denied only under the most serious of circumstances.

Yes. As I understand it, many refrain from applying because the Palestinian Authority strips citizenship from those who obtain Israeli citizenship. This can limit access to their families and property in the PA-controlled areas.

Well, yes. I am thinking more in terms of a post-deradicalization era.

In fact, you were discussing automatically and indiscriminately awarding citizenship to those Gazans who do not relocate. You even proposed a national law to get the job done. Everyone in the world has the right to apply for Israeli citizenship, so there is no denial of the right to apply, but no one has a right to expect it - certainly not the Gazans who have always been eager to express their hatred for Israel - unless they are members of certain groups, Jews and a few others.

The East Jerusalem Arabs have the right to vote in local elections, but very few of them do for the same reason they don't apply for citizenship: they don't accept Israel's jurisdiction over Jerusalem or anywhere else in the ME.

Hopefully none of the Arabs in Gaza or Jerusalem will be granted citizenship unless they can demonstrate through their past words or actions that they recognize Israel's jurisdiction over all its lands, are ready to defend it and have dissociated themselves from any anti Israeli or antisemetic persons or groups. Under these conditions, very, very few of them will become Israeli citizens.

The US and Israel have agreed that the Gaza Arabs must leave because no one believes they can be sufficiently deradicalized to bring peace to the region.

 

[Grau]

"GENOCIDAL DILLITANTS IN DENIAL"

A popular lie that we have repeatedly heard recently from Israel's collection of Ziono-Bots and paid, trained and scripted genocidal shills appears be that
"Poor Jews" / Zionists" are the only ethnic group that is incapable of committing genocide

As soon as you use the word, genocide, to describe what is happening in Gaza, knowing full well that the legal definition of genocide, as defined in the Convention of the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, does not apply to what is happening in Gaza, one can be assured that whatever follows is just more bigoted nonsense.

"100 Days of Ongoing Genocide in Gaza Amid the International Community's Failure to Protect Palestinians"​

100 Days of Ongoing Genocide in Gaza Amid the International Community's Failure to Protect Palestinians [EN/AR] - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in Arabic on occupied Palestinian territory about Protection and Human Rights; published on 14 Jan 2024 by Al Haq, Al Mezan and 2count other organizations

reliefweb.int

EXCERPT "Israel’s international crimes against the Palestinian people must cease immediately and permanently. To this end, the international community must not only hold Israel and the Israeli authorities accountable, but address the root causes by dismantling Israel’s settler-colonial and apartheid regime, and ensuring that all discriminatory and inhumane laws, policies and practices against the Palestinian people are abolished once and for all.

The international community must also urge Israel, the Occupying Power, to immediately and unconditionally withdraw from the occupied Palestinian territory, lift the closure and blockade of Gaza, and enable the Palestinian people to fully exercise their inalienable right to self-determination, including their right to return." CONTINUED

- "Genocide in Palestine? An Israeli Endgame in Gaza and Beyond"​

"While Israeli leaders incite against the entire population of Gaza, there is also a two-pronged logic driving a genocide in the besieged territory."

- "As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel"​

As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel

The long read: This summer, one of my lectures was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree

www.theguardian.com

"This summer, one of my lectures was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree."

 

[Grau]

If anyone remains to apply for citizenship.
Or think of Judea Samaria last 20 years,
only without the PA.

Army and new cities.

Thanks for being honest enough to admit that you support genocide.

Now, American taxpayers can finally crate up their glut of grisly Holocaust theme parks and dump them in front of your "Double-Wide trailer where the are most needed.

Can you say: "Never again"?

 

[Zincwarrior]

Not my country. Not my genocide.

 

[toomuchtime_]

"GENOCIDAL DILLITANTS IN DENIAL"

A popular lie that we have repeatedly heard recently from Israel's collection of Ziono-Bots and paid, trained and scripted genocidal shills appears be that
"Poor Jews" / Zionists" are the only ethnic group that is incapable of committing genocide

"100 Days of Ongoing Genocide in Gaza Amid the International Community's Failure to Protect Palestinians"​

100 Days of Ongoing Genocide in Gaza Amid the International Community's Failure to Protect Palestinians [EN/AR] - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in Arabic on occupied Palestinian territory about Protection and Human Rights; published on 14 Jan 2024 by Al Haq, Al Mezan and 2count other organizations

reliefweb.int

EXCERPT "Israel’s international crimes against the Palestinian people must cease immediately and permanently. To this end, the international community must not only hold Israel and the Israeli authorities accountable, but address the root causes by dismantling Israel’s settler-colonial and apartheid regime, and ensuring that all discriminatory and inhumane laws, policies and practices against the Palestinian people are abolished once and for all.

The international community must also urge Israel, the Occupying Power, to immediately and unconditionally withdraw from the occupied Palestinian territory, lift the closure and blockade of Gaza, and enable the Palestinian people to fully exercise their inalienable right to self-determination, including their right to return." CONTINUED

- "Genocide in Palestine? An Israeli Endgame in Gaza and Beyond"​

"While Israeli leaders incite against the entire population of Gaza, there is also a two-pronged logic driving a genocide in the besieged territory."

- "As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel"​

As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel

The long read: This summer, one of my lectures was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree

www.theguardian.com

"This summer, one of my lectures was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree."

And yet we both know nothing Israel is doing in Gaza meets the legal definition of genocide since there is no "deliberate and systemic" plan to destroy any national, ethnic or religious group.

The fact that you feel compelled to tell these lies makes the point over and over again that there simply is no honest case to be brought against Israel.

 

[Shusha]

"GENOCIDAL DILLITANTS IN DENIAL"

A popular lie that we have repeatedly heard recently from Israel's collection of Ziono-Bots and paid, trained and scripted genocidal shills appears be that
"Poor Jews" / Zionists" are the only ethnic group that is incapable of committing genocide

"100 Days of Ongoing Genocide in Gaza Amid the International Community's Failure to Protect Palestinians"​

100 Days of Ongoing Genocide in Gaza Amid the International Community's Failure to Protect Palestinians [EN/AR] - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in Arabic on occupied Palestinian territory about Protection and Human Rights; published on 14 Jan 2024 by Al Haq, Al Mezan and 2count other organizations

reliefweb.int

EXCERPT "Israel’s international crimes against the Palestinian people must cease immediately and permanently. To this end, the international community must not only hold Israel and the Israeli authorities accountable, but address the root causes by dismantling Israel’s settler-colonial and apartheid regime, and ensuring that all discriminatory and inhumane laws, policies and practices against the Palestinian people are abolished once and for all.

The international community must also urge Israel, the Occupying Power, to immediately and unconditionally withdraw from the occupied Palestinian territory, lift the closure and blockade of Gaza, and enable the Palestinian people to fully exercise their inalienable right to self-determination, including their right to return." CONTINUED

- "Genocide in Palestine? An Israeli Endgame in Gaza and Beyond"​

"While Israeli leaders incite against the entire population of Gaza, there is also a two-pronged logic driving a genocide in the besieged territory."

- "As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel"​

As a former IDF soldier and historian of genocide, I was deeply disturbed by my recent visit to Israel

The long read: This summer, one of my lectures was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree

www.theguardian.com

"This summer, one of my lectures was protested by far-right students. Their rhetoric brought to mind some of the darkest moments of 20th-century history – and overlapped with mainstream Israeli views to a shocking degree."

Wow. Two long-winded opinion pieces with absolutely no evidence or facts which suggest a genocide.

 

[Grau]

"YES, IT IS GENOCIDE."

And yet we both know nothing Israel is doing in Gaza meets the legal definition of genocide since there is no "deliberate and systemic" plan to destroy any national, ethnic or religious group.

The fact that you feel compelled to tell these lies makes the point over and over again that there simply is no honest case to be brought against Israel.

Are any of you genocidal Zionist shills capable of writing anything that is even slightly truthful?

I get bored reading the same fraudulent and redundant Hasbara scripts parroted over and over by hate filled Zionist bigots who do more to generate anti Jewish sentiment than any KKK member and then whine about "anti Semitism.

Wake up...

The Nakba is more of a genocide than your sacred and heavily hyped Holocaust because Jews were among the high ranking Nazi party members who made policy. (1)

Additionally, there were about 150,000 Jews who served under Hitler with Hitler's full knowledge and approval.

No, they were not reluctant conscripts as there were at least 25 Jewish Generals in Hitler's military. (2)

How many Palestinian Generals are in the IDF?

How, many Palestinians are there among the high ranking Knesset policy making members?

Now, it's your cue to howl "antiSemitism", lie about Hamas using "Human Shields" when cowardly IDFers shoot Palestinian children for fun (3) and whine about militant "Settlers" experiencing the Blowback they deserve.

Since you've never set foot in the Middle East and are among a tiny minority of hate filled and clueless Hasbara shills, I know better than to expect an honest or educated response so don't bother.



(1). “List of Nazis of non-Germanic descent”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nazis_of_non-Germanic_descent

EXCERPT “Notably, there were several high-ranking Nazis of full and partial Jewish descent. “ CONTINUED


(2). "Historian claims Hitler personally approved officers of Jewish descent to fight for Nazis"


"ADOLF HITLER personally allowed at least 77 army officers of Jewish descent, including 25 generals, to fight for the Nazi cause…"

Historian claims Hitler personally approved officers of Jewish descent to fight for Nazis

ADOLF HITLER personally allowed at least 77 army officers of Jewish descent, including 25 generals, to fight for the Nazi cause…

www.irishtimes.com

EXCERPT ""In many cases, Hitler decided personally what should be done with soldiers of Jewish descent - and he made different decisions from case to case."

The most senior general of Jewish origin was Field Marshall Erhard Milch, who rose to be general inspector of the Luftwaffe and was convicted of war crimes after 1945." CONTINUED



(3). “Video Shows IDF Snipers Shooting Palestinian Children For Fun, But Facebook Won’t Let You Share It”

VIDEO: Video Shows IDF Snipers Shooting Palestinian Children For Fun, But Facebook Won’t Let You Share It | Neo-Griot

EXCERPT “Footage released on YouTube clearly shows Israeli soldiers firing live rounds at Palestinian children playing on a roof in Al Khalil, an area of Hebron in Occupied Palestine.
An important piece of evidence attesting to the brutality of Israeli occupation. Yet, Facebook users have reported that the social media platform is preventing them from sharing the video.” CONTINUED

 

[Grau]

"WILD CARDS"

Wow. Two long-winded opinion pieces with absolutely no evidence or facts which suggest a genocide.

I give up.

I am reminded of my years as a Psychiatric Case Worker on an Emergency Psychiatric Unit serving a large inner-city.

I found that I could better treat my patients through informal evaluations in addition to formal but relaxed counseling.

So, when one of my patients asked me to play cards I cheerfully participated even though I lost every hand regardless of the cards I had.

Pretending to be confused, I finally asked, aloud: "I wonder why I keep losing?"

Then, the elderly lady (my patient) looked at me, smiled, and declared: "That's because all my cards are wild cards."

Even though that was many decades ago, I'm not at all unfamiliar or critical of people who create their own reality when the real one is inconvenient.


I genuinely wish you well but prefer discussions where Levantine realities are not consistently met with such fanciful Wild Cards.


Enjoy

 

[Grau]

Not my country. Not my genocide.

You might want to rethink that because all Americans are paying for every one of Netanyahu's bombs or bullets.

Now, we wait for the additional cost of Blowback for funding genocide.

"Taxpayers Submit UN Report Charging US Officials With Genocide in Gaza"​

"The United States government has continued to make possible, with massive arms shipments, Israel's genocide in Gaza," said one advocate. "The U.S. courts have failed to intervene. World bodies absolutely should."​

Taxpayers Submit UN Report Charging US Officials With Genocide in Gaza | Common Dreams

In a damning report to the UN, grassroots groups accuse US policymakers of fueling genocide in Gaza. With courts dismissing lawsuits and politicians turning a blind eye, who will hold them accountable? #JusticeForGaza

www.commondreams.org

Additionally:

"The Costs to American Taxpayers of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: $3 Trillion" [ up to 2002]
https://www.wrmea.org/003-june/the-...israeli-palestinian-conflict-$3-trillion.html
By Thomas R. Stauffer
EXCERPT "Similarly, aid to Israel—and thus the regional total—also is understated, since much is outside of the foreign aid appropriation process or implicit in other programs. Support for Israel comes to $1.8 trillion, including special trade advantages, preferential contracts, or aid buried in other accounts. In addition to the financial outlay, U.S. aid to Israel costs some 275,000 American jobs each year."CONTINUED
And, finally:
“Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away.” - Benjamin Netanyahu (1)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks,


(1) “Stupid pro-Israel Americans - have you heard these quotes from your hero Netanyahu? See below?”

Yahoo Search - Web Search

The search engine that helps you find exactly what you're looking for. Find the most relevant information, video, images, and answers from all across the Web.

answers.yahoo.com

 

[Zincwarrior]

all Americans are paying for every one of Netanyahu's bombs or bullets.

I would prefer not.