Isn't/shouldn't it kind of be men's responsibility not to have sex with women?

[TemplarKormac]

Uh, no. Nobody is superior. Not being superior doesn't make you inferior. It makes you equal. Everyone is equal.

Then why do you think men are inferior? Why this animus against men?

And so you admit that placing responsibilities on someone is taking away their freedom?

No. They are that way by design.

It is to everyone who is a white, heterosexual, cisgender, Christian, conservative, wealthy male, yes.

And this is where ALL of your argument loses credibility. You're racist, bigoted, and misandristic all at once.

What I'm saying is exactly what I said in the point above: it really isn't her choice. It's the choice made for her by Patriarchy.

I'm sorry, but who chose to post this utterly preposterous thread?

That's a relatively recent tradition. I'm pretty sure you're aware of this.

So?

This doesn't really follow. At least a relationship between two women is between social equals. At least then there's no disparity in power.

No, I'd think your argument should apply here too, should it not? If a platonic relationship with a man restricts a woman's freedom, then so, too, does such a relationship between two women. You can't simply make allowances for the woman when it is with the same gender. Sorry.

Again, this is a choice made for her. She didn't truly make that choice for herself. She does own her body at all times, by the way, "with child" or not.

Then who did? The man? Can men read minds? If I could read minds, I would be a nerd in need of a girlfriend right now would I?

I'm still mired in Patriarchal thinking and my own privilege too. The difference between us is that I'm aware of it. I see it and try to overcome it.

The difference between us is that one of us still has our sanity intact. And that would not be you, I might add. Since when has my "Patriarchal thinking" influence you lately?

Then we're in agreement about the moral necessity of putting another's needs over your own wants

No we are not. Your assertion is that a woman's needs takes place above all other needs, but she is not obligated to do likewise. We in this world call that a 'double standard.'

This is exactly what I'm advocating here. It's your moral duty to give her what she needs, even if it's something you don't want.

It's my moral duty to feel sorry for you. You don't like one sided relationships, but insist that marriage be just that.

 

[TemplarKormac]

It should worry anyone that you consider rape "satisfying" and "thrilling" and "enjoyable".

It does worry us. And when it actually happens, the rapist should be executed.

If you've been raped then you need to tell someone. I can put you in contact with people who can help if you'd like.

Have you been raped? I take it you haven't. Don't opine on something you know nothing about. None of us know what its like.

 

[Noomi]

Think about it. A woman's first time is practically always painful and bloody. She risks pregnancy every single time she has it. If she does get pregnant, and can't get an abortion for some reason, then she's going to spend the next nine months becoming increasingly sick and uncomfortable with it only ending in the single most painful experience humanly possible. She also risks permanent damage and infection. All of these medical facts lead any reasonable person to the conclusion that it's in women's best interests if men leave them alone in that way. If men claim to love women so much, then shouldn't we at least put our personal lusts/urges second to their health and safety? Shouldn't we be putting those things above what we want or what they claim to want?

If men didn't have sex with women, you wouldn't exist.

Sex is different for both sexes, but if you have two consenting adults...where is the problem?

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

God what a stupid thread.

 

[TemplarKormac]

To put it in a more succinct way, its his choice. You can't tell him what to do with his body... er, where have I heard that line before?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here. What is his choice?

With whom he has sex with. It is that way with women isn't it? To do what he pleases with his body?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Think about it. A woman's first time is practically always painful and bloody. She risks pregnancy every single time she has it. If she does get pregnant, and can't get an abortion for some reason, then she's going to spend the next nine months becoming increasingly sick and uncomfortable with it only ending in the single most painful experience humanly possible. She also risks permanent damage and infection. All of these medical facts lead any reasonable person to the conclusion that it's in women's best interests if men leave them alone in that way. If men claim to love women so much, then shouldn't we at least put our personal lusts/urges second to their health and safety? Shouldn't we be putting those things above what we want or what they claim to want?

If men didn't have sex with women, you wouldn't exist.

Sex is different for both sexes, but if you have two consenting adults...where is the problem?

Noomi! You are my hero!

 

[Noomi]

I disagree. Sounds like he's a thoughtful young man, just a little misguided.

 

[Judicial review]

I disagree. Sounds like he's a thoughtful young man, just a little misguided.

Who?

 

[Ellipsis]

Think about it. A woman's first time is practically always painful and bloody. She risks pregnancy every single time she has it. If she does get pregnant, and can't get an abortion for some reason, then she's going to spend the next nine months becoming increasingly sick and uncomfortable with it only ending in the single most painful experience humanly possible. She also risks permanent damage and infection. All of these medical facts lead any reasonable person to the conclusion that it's in women's best interests if men leave them alone in that way. If men claim to love women so much, then shouldn't we at least put our personal lusts/urges second to their health and safety? Shouldn't we be putting those things above what we want or what they claim to want?

Men should not have sex outside of marriage so as to protect our own lives. If you get her pregnant and you don't want a child but she does, to bad, get ready for child support, dealing with her other random boyfriends and a resentful child growing up in a broken home. If you get her pregnant and you do want the child but she doesn't, to bad, she can murder your child and there's nothing you can legally do about it. Why would any self-respecting man give a woman such power over his life unless he was already willing to enter into a lifelong commitment?

Some women will go to great lengths to inseminate themselves with your seamen so don't even let her give you a blow job. Get a vasectomy, use a condom, and take the condom with you when you leave....or just don't have sex. It all depends on your personal level of acceptable risk.

 

[Judicial review]

Think about it. A woman's first time is practically always painful and bloody. She risks pregnancy every single time she has it. If she does get pregnant, and can't get an abortion for some reason, then she's going to spend the next nine months becoming increasingly sick and uncomfortable with it only ending in the single most painful experience humanly possible. She also risks permanent damage and infection. All of these medical facts lead any reasonable person to the conclusion that it's in women's best interests if men leave them alone in that way. If men claim to love women so much, then shouldn't we at least put our personal lusts/urges second to their health and safety? Shouldn't we be putting those things above what we want or what they claim to want?

If men didn't have sex with women, you wouldn't exist.

Sex is different for both sexes, but if you have two consenting adults...where is the problem?

I'm sorry, but most men would say you only need 1 consenting adult and that's the women. I know men very well, because I am one. Any man that cries rape and reports it is a pussy, unless he is underage. However, there were many time I wish I'd have sex with a couple of my teachers. I was very horny in high school. I hear these story's about these young men who are 14-17 telling there parents and I'm saying you fucking IDIOTS!!! Dude, you have a sex partner now till you graduate! These guys are pussies.

 

[TSJohnson]

Sex is different for both sexes, but if you have two consenting adults...where is the problem?

Think about it. A woman's first time is practically always painful and bloody. She risks pregnancy every single time she has it. If she does get pregnant, and can't get an abortion for some reason, then she's going to spend the next nine months becoming increasingly sick and uncomfortable with it only ending in the single most painful experience humanly possible. She also risks permanent damage and infection. All of these medical facts lead any reasonable person to the conclusion that it's in women's best interests if men leave them alone in that way. If men claim to love women so much, then shouldn't we at least put our personal lusts/urges second to their health and safety? Shouldn't we be putting those things above what we want or what they claim to want?

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

I'm finding it hard to respond because you've been awfully vague. I'm curious as to what you think is the extent of male privilege's effects on a monogamous hetero relationship in today's American culture, but I will say that I'm skeptical that an adequately self-aware individual couldn't avoid leaning unduly on that potential social advantage to the point that his relationship wasn't enough of a net positive in her life to overlook that discrepancy.

First step in any relationship is trust, and if a woman doesn't trust a potential mate, including having confidence that he won't use society's social levers to her detriment, then she shouldn't date him to begin with.

Side note: I also can't sign off on the idea that simply because a pervading culture has a huge hand in programming someone's desires and values, those values are invalidated and it becomes okay to protect them from their own will. All of a person's values and desires are programmed into them via experience and day to day influences. Which of these, then, are valid and which aren't, how do you decide, and how far is it then ok/necessary to go in parenting other adults? Isn't it also a bit misogynistic to imply that any woman who would want a relationship in today's society needs to be protected from herself by the men of said society? Are they incapable of seeing through the patriarchal fog as you have and sharing in the responsibility of controlling their actions?

 

[Judicial review]

Think about it. A woman's first time is practically always painful and bloody. She risks pregnancy every single time she has it. If she does get pregnant, and can't get an abortion for some reason, then she's going to spend the next nine months becoming increasingly sick and uncomfortable with it only ending in the single most painful experience humanly possible. She also risks permanent damage and infection. All of these medical facts lead any reasonable person to the conclusion that it's in women's best interests if men leave them alone in that way. If men claim to love women so much, then shouldn't we at least put our personal lusts/urges second to their health and safety? Shouldn't we be putting those things above what we want or what they claim to want?

Men should not have sex outside of marriage so as to protect our own lives. If you get her pregnant and you don't want a child but she does, to bad, get ready for child support, dealing with her other random boyfriends and a resentful child growing up in a broken home. If you get her pregnant and you do want the child but she doesn't, to bad, she can murder your child and there's nothing you can legally do about it. Why would any self-respecting man give a woman such power over his life unless he was already willing to enter into a lifelong commitment?

Some women will go to great lengths to inseminate themselves with your seamen so don't even let her give you a blow job. Get a vasectomy, use a condom, and take the condom with you when you leave....or just don't have sex. It all depends on your personal level of acceptable risk.

I don't mind child support because I can afford it. Just lie about your name and always go to her place and you'll be fine.

 

[Judicial review]

Sex is different for both sexes, but if you have two consenting adults...where is the problem?

Think about it. A woman's first time is practically always painful and bloody. She risks pregnancy every single time she has it. If she does get pregnant, and can't get an abortion for some reason, then she's going to spend the next nine months becoming increasingly sick and uncomfortable with it only ending in the single most painful experience humanly possible. She also risks permanent damage and infection. All of these medical facts lead any reasonable person to the conclusion that it's in women's best interests if men leave them alone in that way. If men claim to love women so much, then shouldn't we at least put our personal lusts/urges second to their health and safety? Shouldn't we be putting those things above what we want or what they claim to want?

Are you saying Women can't think for themselves? Lol!!!! this thread is getting good.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

The more I think about what you're proposing, the funnier I find it. Women have to be protected from their desires by the men they desire. It's your own nonviolent inverse of fundamentalist Islamic countries. Perhaps men should be required to wear veils in public, those poor women can't be expected to avoid enslaving themselves to a man's wiles. Lol

 

[Judicial review]

The more I think about what you're proposing, the funnier I find it. Women have to be protected from their desires by the men they desire. It's your own nonviolent inverse of fundamentalist Islamic countries. Perhaps men should be required to wear veils in public, those poor women can't be expected to avoid enslaving themselves to a man's wiles. Lol

There you go!!! Welcome to the party.

 

[Judicial review]

God what a stupid thread.

yes, but it is funny.

 

[TSJohnson]

I don't mind child support because I can afford it. Just lie about your name and always go to her place and you'll be fine.

Somehow this comment utterly fails to surprise me...

 

[Judicial review]

I don't mind child support because I can afford it. Just lie about your name and always go to her place and you'll be fine.

Somehow this comment utterly fails to surprise me...

would it really surprise you to learn that I have had sex with about 100 different women in my life without protection, unless with hookers, and always with the womens consent, and about 40% of the time the women were the instigators, and 100% there were no strings attached no numbers exchanged?
I'm probably that guy in that movie who has 147 kids. However, I proud to say I haven't been hit with child support yet mostly because I protect myself. The thing is you can't blame me.

 

[TSJohnson]

would it really surprise you to learn that I have had sex with about 100 different women in my life without protection, unless with hookers, and always with the womens consent, and about 40% of the time the women were the instigators, and 100% there were no strings attached no numbers exchanged?
I'm probably that guy in that movie who has 147 kids. However, I proud to say I haven't been hit with child support yet mostly because I protect myself. The thing is you can't blame me.

I'm coming to expect this from you. That's why I said responsibility in the title...