Islam: Trying to Understand Jihad

Silhouette

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Jul 15, 2013
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PARIS: Some of the best-known cartoonists in France were among the 12 killed when gunmen stormed the office of satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo in Paris on Wednesday, a judicial source said.
Editor-in-chief Stephane Charbonnier, known as Charb, and the cartoonists known as Cabu, Tignous and Wolinski were killed in the attack on the paper, which gained notoriety for repeatedly publishing caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed. Paris shooting 4 cartoonists including chief editor shot dead - The Times of India

Ok, so the title says it all. I am trying to understand Jihad.

Whenever there is a fight between neighbors, its best to try to get into the head of your opponent to discover what it is that makes him tick; and where he may be coming from in his complaints.

The attack in France was terrible. And there surely will be more to come. Why is that? Let's explore the fundamental differences between the Muslim radical and Western minds.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. What would possess someone to become so enraged, so furious, so blind with revenge as to walk into a political publicataion office and mow a bunch of people he's never met down like grass? There is something in the mind of a Muslim that has turned into a monster of larger proportions. We all know how a herd reacts. Humans are nothing more than this when a concept whips into a certain "tipping point".

What has whipped into that in this instance into an attack? Well, for starters, the publication depicted Muhammed the Prophet as a figure. That is expressly forbidden in Islam. An individual doing such a thing might be less enraging because who is going to read something an individual did, someone that nobody really knows? Nobody. But when a major publication prints a comic of the Prophet Muhammed, it is assumed that a large portion of Muslims will see it. After all, there are a billion of them.

Let's try to look at the offense from their perspective. The equivalent would be if the New York Times released a satirical cartoon of the Virgin Mary being raped by a donkey. This is how offensive it is to them.

Let me tell you why I believe them when they say it is offensive. I'll try to be brief here. From what I understand of Islam, which is very little, the Prophet Muhammed didn't want to be worshipped. I think he came to correct what the Roman Catholic Church got wrong with the Prophet Jesus. Instead of making the religion about Jesus's words, Rome thought it would be a cool idea to ignore Jesus' own warning not to worship him but to "Hear the words of my Father in Heaven" instead. So Rome thought it would be politically expedient to entice the pagans into the new faith by appealing to their penchant for worshipping idols. So they plaster churches with images of Jesus on the cross, the Virgin Mary...and so it becomes a psuedo cult with all the ritual trappings of the pagan days...yadda yadda yadda.

For all we know, the Hindus may be right. Jesus may have incarnated in Muhammed to set old wrongs to right? Can't be sure.

The offense of depicting any prophet is to dilute his or her message. Humans have this funny genetic mandate to worship an alpha, to set aside common sense even to placate a dominant figure. So this interferes with the proper purpose of religion, which is to inspire a direct connection within each man to the Source of All There Is. The minute you put an image of Muhammed up, there becomes an association in the mind of the faithful. The next thing you know, they are building mosques with the image of Muhammed all over the place and the focus leaves what the man said, and turns instead to "what he looks like"....and "daily rituals" that instead of inspiring deep faith and connection, begin to take on a wooden, unreflective gesture of stoic obedience.

I'm pretty sure this isn't what The Source of All There Is wanted. That Source, from what I've read in the Bible at least, wants people to be free individuals who are immersed in a sea of temptation but who find their inner strength to resist the earthly temptations on their own. I also feel that different cultures are vital in that we do reincarnate and that different souls are in different stages of this hardening. I think this is how we can urge all religions to see that they are all vital in different forms and serve their different stages of learning, like different class levels in school. As I recall, the purpose of life is because God got lonely and wants company. But He wants to make sure that the company he is with is worthy of Himself. Someone he can trust implicitly. Someone who has been so thrust into the fires so many times that there isn't anything left in that soul but pure wisdom. You have to admit, Earth is an ingenius Plan if this really is His true goal.

That's how I see it. But I welcome other perspectives. The main focus of this thread isn't to "bow to terrorists". It is instead to try to understand their perspective. There is motivation behind every madness and we'd do well to understand it. Like I said, from their perspective, the entire hinge of their religion relies upon their Prophet being anonymous. That's where it begins for them. So since Christianity's entire hinge is the Virgin Birth (when you trace it back) that signifies Christ's Words as synonymous with God's words, the equivalent of what the Charlie Hebdoe publication did was for the New York Times to have published a picture of the Virgin Mary being raped by a donkey.

I can see the comparison and the level of disrespect a Muslim might feel. That's called "putting yourself in your opponent's shoes"..
 
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Stop trying to play Dr Phil with the enemy & just fucking kill them. Every single one of them.
But from another's perspective, YOU are the enemy. Do you still feel the same way now? Madness isn't forgiven, no matter which side of the fence it's on. This was the same justification used at Charlie Hebdoe. It is madness. And at some point "Dr. Phil" has to enter the building. I'd just rather it be now instead of after everything is smouldering ashes and ruin.
 
Stop trying to play Dr Phil with the enemy & just fucking kill them. Every single one of them.
But from another's perspective, YOU are the enemy. Do you still feel the same way now? Madness isn't forgiven, no matter which side of the fence it's on. This was the same justification used at Charlie Hebdoe. It is madness. And at some point "Dr. Phil" has to enter the building. I'd just rather it be now instead of after everything is smouldering ashes and ruin.
I don't give a rats ass what their perspective it. They are religious nutjobs. Just kill them and stop all this touchy Feely nonsense
 
In order to understand Jihad, you actually need to understand what it is. Jihad is the expression of totalitarianism. It is the demand for absolute conformity. It represents the end to inquiry, the death of an independent mind, the squashing of the human spirit, the abandonment of free wil and the victory of superstition over reason. That's what it is.

Understood for what it is, one can place all the mayhem, death, murder and lack of achievement in proper perspective. It is the manifestation of a self-replicating virus that seeks to obliterate all in it's path.

Jihad is the Borg. Imagining ourselves as Borg in order to combat them is one thing, but actually identifying with them is quite a different matter altogether.
 
Ok, so the title says it all. I am trying to understand Jihad.


If you grew up here (USA), come from Northern European stock and had exposure to some form of Christianity, I suggest you study some of OUR history to aid in your understanding.

But the long and the short of it is; religions make some of the converts fucking crazy religious NUTS.

Hope that helps.

from wiki:

In 1095, at the Council of Clermont, Pope Urban II declared that some wars could be deemed as not only a bellum iustum ("just war"), but could, in certain cases, rise to the level of a bellum sacrum (holy war).[25] Jill Claster characterizes this as a "remarkable transformation in the ideology of war", shifting the justification of war from being not only "just" but "spiritually beneficial
 
I think being a Muslim radical is just the flavor of the month for loser mentalities. These kids would join up with any hate group that happened to be in the news at the moment, just so they could have an excuse to act out their twisted aggression.

Violent rhetoric is like a magnet to losers. Thus you see them clumping around Stormfront and right wing nazis if they are white, and around extremist Muslim groups if they are non-white.

In the 70s, the losers in America gravitated toward radical left wing organizations and blew shit up, because that was all the rage back then. Today, they gravitate toward militias.

The problem isn't with Islam. The problem is in the heads of the losers who are looking for an outlet for their violent impulses. They are always with us. They just change T-shirts. Yesterday, it was Che Guevera. Today, it is Osama bin Laden. Tomorrow, it may be Marine Le Pen or Bruno Mégret.
 
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Us Christians had us a couple centuries of waging Holy War. You know who we waged it on? Right? Muslims.

And have you noticed that the terrorists who are really crazy might as well be living in the 1200's. So to them, our Holy war on them just happened the other day.

We be killing Muslims for a long time.
 
if one believes in Islam then one believes in the Koran and jihad....the Koran mandates jihad whether it be stealth or violent....

this is not Islamic "extremism"......it's part and parcel of the Koran.....which is why most muslims wont' protest against the violence of jihad......the violence is mandated in the Koran etc. and is inherent in the religion of Islam.......this is why the Egyptian leader wants muslim religious leaders to REFORM Islam....in order to stop the 7th century madness....
 
. The problem is in the heads of the losers who are looking for an outlet for their violent impulses. They are always with us. They just change T-shirts. Yesterday, it was Che Guevera. Today, it is Osama bin Laden.



While I agree with a lot that you wrote, I think that the long history of Christians and Muslims killing each other colors this conflict differently than just losers attracted to radicals.

They really believe and pass it on for generation after generation. When you have Muslim women willing to raise their sons to become jihadists and suicide bombers, that's a long term problem.

Couple long running hatred with the large numbers of unemployed, hopeless young men, and it's like oh fuck.
Everybody knows how easy it is to lead or mis lead teenage boys. Any teenage boy.

And that's my opinion why they are waging jiihad. They've got nothing better to do and they are respected for their efforts to wage jihad by their peers and their family. It's their cause to live and die.
 
I don't give a rats ass what their perspective it. They are religious nutjobs. Just kill them and stop all this touchy Feely nonsense

^^ This is precisely the product you would expect of a wooden, unreflective robot, not a man on a journey to find Heaven, Jesus, or 70 Virgins or whatever. This is a monkey, hand-raised TO KILL whatever the silverback of the tribe tells him to. The trouble with that is, it isn't a key to the Gate of Heaven under any circumstance. God wants angels for company, not monkeys. They go to another place when they die. Especially if they suspect what they're doing in life might not be the right path, but they take up arms anyway. Those are the ones who get the worst punishment of all IMHO.

But then, this is little old me. You'll have to take it with a grain of salt.
 
if one believes in Islam then one believes in the Koran and jihad....the Koran mandates jihad whether it be stealth or violent....

this is not Islamic "extremism"......it's part and parcel of the Koran.....which is why most muslims wont' protest against the violence of jihad......the violence is mandated in the Koran etc. and is inherent in the religion of Islam.......this is why the Egyptian leader wants muslim religious leaders to REFORM Islam....in order to stop the 7th century madness....
Well this is just the thing. When good ideas become "religions" and prophets become worshipped, then what they had to say at the time, that made sense THEN (but not say for example, in a nuclear age) is taken forward to inappropriate times. This is why new prophets come along at regular intervals. To address the concerns of the day and keep the boys from burning the place down. (It's almost always men waging war. In nature it's always males waging the Big Battles while the females wage the more constant little ones)

Perhaps back in the day, jihad made sense and was OK with that prophet's message. It worked for a sticky situation at the time. This is why when religions become hopelessly robotic and entrenched, they have to get a new coat of paint every...I don't know..500 years or so? Maybe a thousand. How many is seven generations? More like 200. So every 200 years maybe. Probably is on an 'as-need' basis.

So the jews may be right too. The Messiah is still on His way. S/he is always on his way..
 
if one believes in Islam then one believes in the Koran and jihad....the Koran mandates jihad whether it be stealth or violent....

this is not Islamic "extremism"......it's part and parcel of the Koran.....which is why most muslims wont' protest against the violence of jihad......the violence is mandated in the Koran etc. and is inherent in the religion of Islam.......this is why the Egyptian leader wants muslim religious leaders to REFORM Islam....in order to stop the 7th century madness....
Well this is just the thing. When good ideas become "religions" and prophets become worshipped, then what they had to say at the time, that made sense THEN (but not say for example, in a nuclear age) is taken forward to inappropriate times. This is why new prophets come along at regular intervals. To address the concerns of the day and keep the boys from burning the place down. (It's almost always men waging war. In nature it's always males waging the Big Battles while the females wage the more constant little ones)

Perhaps back in the day, jihad made sense and was OK with that prophet's message. It worked for a sticky situation at the time. This is why when religions become hopelessly robotic and entrenched, they have to get a new coat of paint every...I don't know..500 years or so? Maybe a thousand. How many is seven generations? More like 200. So every 200 years maybe. Probably is on an 'as-need' basis.

So the jews may be right too. The Messiah is still on His way. S/he is always on his way..

Islam is another belief system......a backassward 7th century belief system......but it's what they believe and there is no changing that belief without major reform...so we need to recognize Islam as our enemy...

America's belief system is in a Constitutional republic.....we believe in the rights of the individual which is totally NOT compatible with Islam.... anymore than Communism, Fascism, etc.
 
if one believes in Islam then one believes in the Koran and jihad....the Koran mandates jihad whether it be stealth or violent....

this is not Islamic "extremism"......it's part and parcel of the Koran.....which is why most muslims wont' protest against the violence of jihad......the violence is mandated in the Koran etc. and is inherent in the religion of Islam.......this is why the Egyptian leader wants muslim religious leaders to REFORM Islam....in order to stop the 7th century madness....
Your ignorance knows no bounds.

After a few of us posted links to stories of Muslims all over the world condemning these recent attacks, I predicted it wouldn't take long for dipshits to be claiming that no Muslims voiced their opposition to these recent attacks, and along you come to fulfill that prediction.

I'd like to say I am a genius for making that prediction, but unfortunately you bigots are all too predictable. Your post was as inevitable as the rising sun.

As for jihad, it is a personal interior struggle against one's sinful nature and temptations. It is not an attack on innocents. The Qu'ran specifically forbids the killing of innocents. It even says not to harm so much as a tree.

Your ignorance is deep.
 
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America's belief system is in a Constitutional republic.....we believe in the rights of the individual which is totally NOT compatible with Islam.... anymore than Communism, Fascism, etc.


Really why then are we financing the Jewish state which completely and totally transgresses upon the INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS of Palestinian Arabs?????


.
 
if one believes in Islam then one believes in the Koran and jihad....the Koran mandates jihad whether it be stealth or violent....

this is not Islamic "extremism"......it's part and parcel of the Koran.....which is why most muslims wont' protest against the violence of jihad......the violence is mandated in the Koran etc. and is inherent in the religion of Islam.......this is why the Egyptian leader wants muslim religious leaders to REFORM Islam....in order to stop the 7th century madness....
Your ignorance knows no bounds.

After a few of us posted links to stories of Muslims all over the world condemning these recent attacks, I predicted it wouldn't take long for dipshits to be claiming that no Muslims voiced their opposition to these recent attacks, and along you come to fulfill that prediction.

I'd like to say I am a genius for making that prediction, but unfortunately you bigots are all too predictable. Your post was as inevitable as the rising sun.

As for jihad, it is a personal interior struggle against one's sinful nature and temptations. It is not an attack on innocents. The Qu'ran specifically forbids the killing of innocents. It even says not to harm so much as a tree.

Your ignorance is deep.
wise up g....

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text. They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subjective as anything else in the Quran.

The Quran s Verses of Violence
 
. The problem is in the heads of the losers who are looking for an outlet for their violent impulses. They are always with us. They just change T-shirts. Yesterday, it was Che Guevera. Today, it is Osama bin Laden.



While I agree with a lot that you wrote, I think that the long history of Christians and Muslims killing each other colors this conflict differently than just losers attracted to radicals.

They really believe and pass it on for generation after generation. When you have Muslim women willing to raise their sons to become jihadists and suicide bombers, that's a long term problem.

Couple long running hatred with the large numbers of unemployed, hopeless young men, and it's like oh fuck.
Everybody knows how easy it is to lead or mis lead teenage boys. Any teenage boy.

And that's my opinion why they are waging jiihad. They've got nothing better to do and they are respected for their efforts to wage jihad by their peers and their family. It's their cause to live and die.
The OP focused on the killing of the cartoonists. That was done by a couple of twisted losers. It is those kind of people I was talking about.

I wish I could tell you the first hand experience I have with the horrible things Muslims have done, but I prefer to remain as anonymous and blank about my personal background as possible.

Suffice to say that the struggles in the Middle East are an entirely more complex issue.

This is not so much a Muslim problem as it is an Arab problem.
 
The prohibition against images isn't just the image of Mohammad. It's against any living being or purportedly alive at one time. That's why the taliban destroyed the buddhist carvings that were thousands of years old.
 

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