Islam Does not Permit Killing Unless Your are Being Oppressed from Practicing Islam

[skhaldi]

I have seen the same statement splattered across tons of the messages with very little explaination. "kill disbelievers". Yes, it is okay to kill disbelievers if they are preventing you from practicing Islam, but otherwise read the verse below...this sums it up and I hope we don't have anymore problems with this in the future.

"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice."
Surah 60 Verse 08

 

[dilloduck]

Honest question. Why don't we hear some outrage from peace loving muslims? Why do you not tell the terrorists how they are sinners and need to repent?

 

[skhaldi]

I never said that the terrorist were right. In fact what they are doing has upset most of the Islamic community.
I will use an anology to maybe help everyone understand the concept of terrorists in Islam.

What you are saying is comparitive to me saying that all christians are members in the KKK.
- I live an hour from a KKK headquarter. A junior high teacher of mine used to go to the KKK cross burning and believe me they really believe they are doing what the bible says.
- There are always some bad apples that can give the whole group a bad name.

I want everyone to know that by being so closed minded about Muslims you are missing out on a lot of great and exciting friendships. I have only met Muslims who are kindhearted, loving, and exciting. I had many of my Muslim friends before my conversion. Please do not judge a whole way of life by the teachings and beliefs of a few. This country survived one bout of racism hopefully we can survive once again.
Thanks,
Stephanie Khaldi

 

[skhaldi]

Maybe you just aren't listening. At least once a week I hear women talking about the anger they feel towards many of the terrorist. I have cried at night because what these people did has caused many innocent people to suffer. Many people who did not deserve to die were killed and many innocent people especially muslims have been persecuted because of a few events that took place that they had no control over.
In our local Mosque we often host gatherings and events for the community so they can be introduced to Islam and Muslims. We enjoy making friends with our community and the people living around us (even if they aren't Muslim). All of us would be heart broken if any of these people were killed in a terrorist act.

 

[skhaldi]

I am not preaching. I promise. I do not wish to convert anyone to Islam or make anyone share the same beliefs I do. I am simply explaining why Islamic teachings do not support the terrorists.
This is not a matter of questioning education. I am sure you are very educated like many other people on this board. Who knows, maybe you have studied Islam longer than I have. I was very disappointed in the bashing of Islam and Muslims on this board. I came here thinking I would find some exciting conversation, but some of the comments hurt.
Hopefully you and I will be able to have some meaningful conversations in the future and maybe when we step away we will have some insight to each others thoughts and considerations.
I apologize now if I said anything to offend you. I did not mean to.
Thanks,
Stephanie Khaldi

 

[dilloduck]

Americans will not hear about your peaceful gatherings. I'm afraid most Americans will not believe in your love for us until your religious leaders speak out loudly of the condemnation of terrorism and we see you some action that you take against them. I fully admit to our my ignorance of how you practice your religion but when we are given nothing to go on, people unfortunately go to your scripture to try and understand you. Christians can't even agree on what the bible says so you can understand our problem with the Koran

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
Really, did'nt realize that our victims of terrorism were doing that to those fine Muslims! Hell, Allah got his shit going on then!

Truthfully, I think this is why many have confusion with what you are trying to say!

Islam does not permit killing unless? take that issue up with the terrorist who need better educating then us!

What Is being done is a perversion of religion to support a political agenda. It's been a common practice throughout history...Use the name of one's favorite deity to justify attrocities. Christians have done it too. Abortion clinic bombers still do.

 

[Comrade]

I'm not entirely sure we can seperate religion and politics with respect to Islam.

The fact is, since the inception of Islam those under it's rule have NEVER had leaders who practiced politics outside of the religious domain of Islam itself.

How is it that the West has developed into modern democracies while most of the traditional Islamic world is locked into a cycle tyrannical rule by edict, religious mandate, or simple thuggery?

The passage offered here by skhaldi does little to offset my overall perspective of Islam with respect to other passages which offer little prospect of true acceptance of others among their theocratic rule.

"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice."
Surah 60 Verse 08"

It's permissible to to respect infidels but only if[/b] conditions are so and so. Not that Allah commands you to respect us, it's just optional.

Quoting verses in detail leads me to understand exactly what Allah demands in the text of his believers. Quite the opposite of being allowed certain niceties of civilization the mandate of the religion speaks for itself.

Regarding infidels (unbelievers), they are the Muslim's "inveterate
enemies" (Sura 4:101)

Muslims are to "arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush everywhere"
(Sura 9:5)

They are to "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill
them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly"
(Sura 4:90).

"Fight them until Islam reigns supreme" (Sura 2:193).

"Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers" (Sura 8:12). -
If a Muslim does not go to war, Allah will kill him (Sura 9:39).

He is to be told, "the heat of war is fierce, but more fierce is the heat
of Hell-fire" (Sura 9:81).

A Muslim must "fight for the cause of Allah with the devotion due to him"
(Sura 22:78)

Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them
(Sura 9:123).

Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers" (Sura 48:29).

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends.
[al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

A Muslim should "enjoy the good things" he has gained by fighting (Sura 8:69).

A Muslim can kill any person he wishes if it be a "just cause" (Sura 6:152).

Allah loves those who "fight for his cause" (Sura 61:3).

Anyone who fights against Allah or renounces Islam in favor of another
religion shall be "put to death or crucified or have their hands and feet
cut off alternative sides" (Sura 5:34).

Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)

Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and
besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)

Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)

I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above
their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)

They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should
be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33) -

Know that paradise is under the shades of swords. Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55

And Speaking of Paradise... "There will be "gushing fountains" and everyone
"shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and there shall wait on
them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine." Suras
(or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.

"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched
before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," Sura 55. A few lines
later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall
recline on green cushions and fine carpets."

"The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are
80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with
pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a
Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'" It will be the day, God willing, you spend
with the women of paradise...Know that the gardens of paradise are waiting
for you in all their beauty, and the women of paradise are waiting, calling
out, "Come hither, friend of God."




Okay, now prove me wrong.

 

[dilloduck]

The proclaimed "divinity" of the certain religious teachers has led people to attempt to spread the "word" by literally quoting what they said. This has always been exceedingly difficult due to translation problems and cultural differences. People have tried to deal with this difficulty by appointing translaters (clerics) to explain the message. How do you know that these clerics have some divine path to the accurate translation of what was actually MEANT by these teachers. What if they exagerated to make a point? What if they used analogies or even humor in their teachings? A literal interpretation would surely miss the meaning. Just look at some posts. Do you take all of what is said literally? Of course not! Christians and Muslims trying to explain religions to each other using literal explanations will surely fail until both admit that they are still trying to understand the " truths" themselves.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by dilloduck
The proclaimed "divinity" of the certain religious teachers has led people to attempt to spread the "word" by literally quoting what they said. This has always been exceedingly difficult due to translation problems and cultural differences. People have tried to deal with this difficulty by appointing translaters (clerics) to explain the message. How do you know that these clerics have some divine path to the accurate translation of what was actually MEANT by these teachers. What if they exagerated to make a point? What if they used analogies or even humor in their teachings? A literal interpretation would surely miss the meaning. Just look at some posts. Do you take all of what is said literally? Of course not! Christians and Muslims trying to explain religions to each other using literal explanations will surely fail until both admit that they are still trying to understand the " truths" themselves.

The clerics who authored the Koran are apparently witnesses to the words and deeds of Mohammad.

That's they did so well after his death, while also enjoying great power and prestige as the ruling class, makes the text absolutely suspect of selective memory and personal bias.

Were the authors of the Bible themselves theocratic dictators ruling an empire?

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by skhaldi
I never said that the terrorist were right. In fact what they are doing has upset most of the Islamic community.
I will use an anology to maybe help everyone understand the concept of terrorists in Islam.

What you are saying is comparitive to me saying that all christians are members in the KKK.
- I live an hour from a KKK headquarter. A junior high teacher of mine used to go to the KKK cross burning and believe me they really believe they are doing what the bible says.
- There are always some bad apples that can give the whole group a bad name.

Bad analogy. The members of the KKK do not learn their attitudes in the church they may attend. The KKK does not commit crimes at the behest of the preacher at the church they may attend.

Unlike muslims, who behave as they do at the command of their spiritual leaders and as a result of the teachings of the koran.

And as I've said before, I'd like to hear how a woman can reconcile being a muslim with the fact that this religion treats her as property and even has detailed instructions regarding the proper methods of beating her. What about that? I'd sure like to hear an explanation.

 

[freeandfun1]

Originally posted by Merlin1047
Bad analogy. The members of the KKK do not learn their attitudes in the church they may attend. The KKK does not commit crimes at the behest of the preacher at the church they may attend.

And, the KKK is more of a RACE hating group than a RELIGION hating group..... they hate anybody that isn't WASP. They do not let black Christians, Jews for Jesus or any other lovers of Christ join their group unless they are White, Anglo, Saxon, Protestants.

BIG DIFFERENCE from Islamic terrorists that do not hate based on race, but on RELIGIOUS beliefs alone.

 

[NewGuy]

The bottom line is this:

You can follow the text and be a follower of the faith of islam.

OR

You can CHANGE or IGNORE select text, and become a follower of A faith.

NOT THE SAME.

The terrorists FOLLOW THEIR TEXTS.

Therefore, when the texts are presented, islam is shown for what it is and the terrorists are not the "extremists", but the norm, and anyone else is truly the "fringe" group.

 

[dilloduck]

A majority of Muslims were terrorists ? Did you take a poll on this one or is your paranoia running away with you again?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
A majority of Muslims were terrorists ? Did you take a poll on this one or is your paranoia running away with you again?

Do you have anything factual to post?

-Or are you going to continue jumping up in the middle of the classroom proclaiming yourself an idiot and class clown?

 

[dilloduck]

I guess you didn't----just a blanket bashing of the muslim faith and if they had a predominant leader you would bash them too

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by dilloduck
I guess you didn't----just a blanket bashing of the muslim faith and if they had a predominant leader you would bash them too

What do YOU know about the text?

 

[dilloduck]

Which text-----High School math ??

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by freeandfun1
And, the KKK is more of a RACE hating group than a RELIGION hating group..... they hate anybody that isn't WASP. They do not let black Christians, Jews for Jesus or any other lovers of Christ join their group unless they are White, Anglo, Saxon, Protestants.

BIG DIFFERENCE from Islamic terrorists that do not hate based on race, but on RELIGIOUS beliefs alone.

Strange I find myself arguing somewhat on both sides of an issue. But I believe that your example is flawed as much as the original KKK analogy.

Blind hatred, be it based on religion or race, is the motivator for fanatics. Personally I see no difference between the two. The point I was making is that people do not join the KKK as a result of reading the bible or listening to their preacher. Christian religion is not the motivator for the nutbars in the KKK. However, islamic teachings in the koran and from clerics is the reason for the attacks on us and others. Islam is a religion that preaches hate and violence even though there are many moslems who try to deny the dark side of their flawed faith.

 

[skhaldi]

Islam does not preach violence and hatred. It teaches love and kindness. We only use violence if someone is preventing us from practicing our religion. God is more important than any man. So if you blow up or bulldoze our mosque or lock the doors and don't let us enter and we can't stop you by communication then we have the right to use violence. Of course, this is not a problem in America since we are freely allowed to worship God.

Also please refer to the first post I wrote in this topic.

I think I said the thing about the KKK on another post but it was a good example for my intentions. Of course I know every situation is never the same. I was simply making an example to the fact stating how would someone feel if their group was represented by a horrible minority group. I had no intention of stating these two situations were exact. I was just saying the whole Muslim population (who actually practices Islam correctly) does not like being grouped in the same category as the inhumane and unislamic terrorist.
By the way the KKK does claim the bible states white superiority. So their hatred stems from this along with hatred towards Jews since they did kill Jesus and all.