Zone1 Is Your Body a Temple or a Graveyard?

[Stann]

It's a steakhouse!

View attachment 1160945

Or a Seafood Buffett , anything is possible in this world.

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

Jesus ate fish, and lamb at Passover.

Without animal manures we would have to increase chemical fertilizers, which are damaging to the environment. Animal manure supports soil life. Chemicals can kill soil life.

None of this addressed what I posted last in this thread. So this is irrelevant if it is true.

It's simply a practical matter. We are able to visit this universe and reside in these beings to rejuvenate our spirits and have the experience of being able to live a life as an individual. That is not possible in the parallel universe which has been labeled as heaven and so many other names.

That was a confusing answer. What was meant about what I posted that this is shown to be a response to?

Jesus was referring to divorce. Are you suggesting that no one should get divorced?

While Jesus was speaking to divorce, which is permitted, the design from God in the beginning is shown as the ideal which is from God's will. There was no mistake in it. While other things were permitted since the fall that opportunity for some with hardened hearts to not be lost, God did not have a change of mind, God never changes.

It was shown that eating whole foods from plants is healthier when not having animal products. It is shown that animal agriculture from which there are the products that there is still demand for contributes to more land, water, and resources being used with being needed more for that, with more loss of natural environments and species extinction related to the greater demands with animal agriculture. Contribution to climate change has been linked to the great amount of methane coming from all the billions of cattle being used for the demands.

There is cruelty that can be found which is widespread in animal agriculture, all animals in all parts of industrial animal agriculture are slaughtered and none reach old age, they are marked from birth for a slaughter date.

None of this corresponds with righteousness shown as desirable in Proverbs 12:10, among various passages I can refer to, and it is shown we do not even need the animal products. Nothing here commands anyone in what to do. But why have any when it is not good in all these ways? The reasons to ignore these things are not compelling.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

A Catholic repents of the many lives he stole

.

They ate roasted lamb for Passover.

 

[Woodznutz]

None of this addressed what I posted last in this thread. So this is irrelevant if it is true.



That was a confusing answer. What was meant about what I posted that this is shown to be a response to?



While Jesus was speaking to divorce, which is permitted, the design from God in the beginning is shown as the ideal which is from God's will. There was no mistake in it. While other things were permitted since the fall that opportunity for some with hardened hearts to not be lost, God did not have a change of mind, God never changes.

It was shown that eating whole foods from plants is healthier when not having animal products. It is shown that animal agriculture from which there are the products that there is still demand for contributes to more land, water, and resources being used with being needed more for that, with more loss of natural environments and species extinction related to the greater demands with animal agriculture. Contribution to climate change has been linked to the great amount of methane coming from all the billions of cattle being used for the demands.

There is cruelty that can be found which is widespread in animal agriculture, all animals in all parts of industrial animal agriculture are slaughtered and none reach old age, they are marked from birth for a slaughter date.

None of this corresponds with righteousness shown as desirable in Proverbs 12:10, among various passages I can refer to, and it is shown we do not even need the animal products. Nothing here commands anyone in what to do. But why have any when it is not good in all these ways? The reasons to ignore these things are not compelling.

Jesus will deal with all these things when he returns. In the meantime we are not to judge each other in food and drink. That said, "all things in moderation" would mitigate many of these environmental problems. For example, I eat only one fifth of the average meat consumption in the U.S. Following my example we could reduce animal production by 80 percent. I also eat less vegetables as well, so following my example the earth (and the people) could be restored to a high state of health very quickly.

 

[Stann]

That was a confusing answer. What was meant about what I posted that this is shown to be a response to?

The bodies we inhabit when we visit here are merely vessels. The people who created these religions gave it " temple " platitudes. For the entity you call GOD they are simply a means to an end.

 

[Woodznutz]

While Jesus was speaking to divorce, which is permitted, the design from God in the beginning is shown as the ideal which is from God's will. There was no mistake in it. While other things were permitted since the fall that opportunity for some with hardened hearts to not be lost, God did not have a change of mind, God never changes.

God is flexible. That never changes. He has made it known that he doesn't like things 'carved in stone'. Recall that God made the first divorce when he 'divorced' Lucifer. He later divorced Israel (but offered reconciliation later).

 

[OldFlame]

Who knew Carl in Michigan was such a religious zealot, I should visit the R&E forum more often. It's so cool knowing that I finally found the perfect Christian, outside of Christ of course, and he lives right in Michigan!!

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

.

They ate roasted lamb for Passover.

View attachment 1178909

Except it just wasn't said. Many would assume it though. I don't, still.

Jesus will deal with all these things when he returns. In the meantime we are not to judge each other in food and drink. That said, "all things in moderation" would mitigate many of these environmental problems. For example, I eat only one fifth of the average meat consumption in the U.S. Following my example we could reduce animal production by 80 percent. I also eat less vegetables as well, so following my example the earth (and the people) could be restored to a high state of health very quickly.

It is a false argument (strawman) to say I was judging. That isn't shown anywhere, I give information, no judging happens with that. It might come to me in the other direction, I realize. I haven't seen "all things in moderation" in the Bible. I know sinning in moderation is not in any passage. Eating for one fifth the damage is a step in the right direction. It is very healthy to go all the way. Whole foods from plants can be looked into, for that. This is very healthy, I have had this way for nearly ten years. I have been vegan already a bit more than twelve years. I have been without eating meat for much longer.

God is flexible. That never changes. He has made it known that he doesn't like things 'carved in stone'. Recall that God made the first divorce when he 'divorced' Lucifer. He later divorced Israel (but offered reconciliation later).

That sounds very much like God changes. But God does not change. The flexibility that is maybe considered is accommodation, God is not willing that any perish, but there should be repentance, coming to faith, with what Christ made possible.

Where would you show God does not like anything carved in stone?

 

[Woodznutz]

Except it just wasn't said. Many would assume it though. I don't, still.



It is a false argument (strawman) to say I was judging. That isn't shown anywhere, I give information, no judging happens with that. It might come to me in the other direction, I realize. I haven't seen "all things in moderation" in the Bible. I know sinning in moderation is not in any passage. Eating for one fifth the damage is a step in the right direction. It is very healthy to go all the way. Whole foods from plants can be looked into, for that. This is very healthy, I have had this way for nearly ten years. I have been vegan already a bit more than twelve years. I have been without eating meat for much longer.



That sounds very much like God changes. But God does not change. The flexibility that is maybe considered is accommodation, God is not willing that any perish, but there should be repentance, coming to faith, with what Christ made possible.

Where would you show God does not like anything carved in stone?

Moderation

Yes, Paul does encourage moderation in his teachings. In Philippians 4:5, he states, "Let your moderation be known unto all men," which implies a call for self-control and balance in one's actions and interactions. Additionally, Paul emphasizes the importance of temperance and self-discipline throughout his letters, suggesting that moderation is a key aspect of living a virtuous life.
OpenBible.info+2

The phrase "no longer tablets of stone" refers to the transition from the old covenant of the Law, represented by the Ten Commandments, to the new covenant of grace, where God's laws are written on the hearts of believers.

The phrase originates from 2 Corinthians 3:3, where the Apostle Paul writes: "You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts." This verse contrasts the old covenant, which was inscribed on stone tablets, with the new covenant, which emphasizes internal transformation and spiritual renewal.​

Bible Hub+1

Divorce
God issued Israel a “certificate of divorce” to formalize the covenant rupture provoked by entrenched idolatry, to warn Judah through a tangible precedent, and to highlight His holiness and justice while simultaneously preparing for a grander reconciliation in the Messiah. The prophetic metaphor, legally grounded, historically corroborated, and textually secure, ultimately serves the redemptive arc culminating in the gospel of Christ.

Does God change?
The change in the law doesn't represent a "change" in God, but the fulfillment of what he had planned all along, thus no change.
In Hebrews 7:12, it states that "for when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed as well." This verse highlights the necessity of a change in the law when the priesthood changes, particularly in the context of the transition from the Levitical priesthood to the order of Melchizedek, which represents a new covenant.

• The Levitical priesthood, established through the lineage of Aaron, was the standard in Israel, but the coming of Jesus as the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek signifies a new covenant that fulfills Old Testament prophecies.
  
  2
• This change emphasizes that while the old covenant served its purpose, it was insufficient for complete reconciliation with God, necessitating a new relationship through Jesus.
  
  2
• The law served its purpose under the old covenant, but under the new covenant, believers are called to live under the law of grace and truth, which offers a direct relationship with God through Jesus.
  
  2
  This verse underscores the significance of the priesthood and law in the Christian faith, illustrating the transition from the old covenant to the new covenant in Christ.

 

[DennisPTate]

A Catholic repents of the many lives he stole

This is an important discussion that I believe needs to be addressed, but it would be impossible for me to view the historical Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus, [Isa the Prophet to Muslims], as having been totally vegan or vegetarian.

There is an interesting book that is well written that attempts to explain all of that but I believe that the dark side of the force very likely muddied the water by "channelling" the "Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ" through Mr. Levi Dowling. I have to admit though that the book is rather impressive and I read it five or six times because of how rather brilliantly it was actually written.

Aquarian Age Gospel of Jesus​

Chapters 1 - 7​

Birth and Early Life of Mary, Mother of Jesus

CHAPTER 1

Palestine. Birth of Mary, Joachim's feast. Mary is blessed by the priests. His prophecy. Mary abides in the temple. Is betrothed to Joseph.

AUGUSTUS Caesar reigned and Herod Antipas was ruler of Jerusalem. 2 Three provinces comprised the land of Palistine: Judea, and Samaria, and Galilee. 3 Joachim was a master of the Jewish law, a man of wealth; he lived in Nazareth of Galilee; and Anna, of the tribe of Judah, was his wife. 4 To them was born a child, a goodly female child, and they were glad; and Mary was the name they gave the child. 5 Joachim made a feast in honour of the child; but he invited not the rich, the honoured and the great; he called the poor the halt and the lame, the blind, and to each one he gave a gift of raiment,food or other needful thing. 6 He said, The Lord has given me this wealth; I am his steward by his grace, and if I give not to his children when in need, then he will make this wealth a curse. 7 Now, when the child was three years old her parents took her to Jerusalem, and in the temple she received the blessings of the priests. 8 The high priest was a prophet and a seer, and when he saw the child he said, 9 Behold, this child will be the mother of an honoured prophet and a master of the law; she shall abide within this holy temple of the Lord. 10 And Mary did abide within the temple of the Lord; and Hillel, chief of the Sanhedrim, taught her all the precepts of Jews, and she delighted in the law of God. 11 When Mary reached the age of womanhood she was betrothed to Joseph, son of Jacob, and a carpenter of Nazareth. 12 And Joseph was an upright man, and a devoted Essene.

Birth and Infancy of the Harbinger, and of Jesus

CHAPTER 2

Zacharias and Elizabeth. Prophetic messages of Gabriel to Zacharias, Elizabeth and Mary. Birth of John. Prophecy of Zacharias.

The Aquarian Age Gospel of Jesus, the Christ of the Piscean Age

The Aquarian Age Gospel of Jesus, the Christ of the Piscean Age

reluctant-messenger.com

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

Moderation

Yes, Paul does encourage moderation in his teachings. In Philippians 4:5, he states, "Let your moderation be known unto all men," which implies a call for self-control and balance in one's actions and interactions. Additionally, Paul emphasizes the importance of temperance and self-discipline throughout his letters, suggesting that moderation is a key aspect of living a virtuous life.
OpenBible.info+2

The phrase "no longer tablets of stone" refers to the transition from the old covenant of the Law, represented by the Ten Commandments, to the new covenant of grace, where God's laws are written on the hearts of believers.

The phrase originates from 2 Corinthians 3:3, where the Apostle Paul writes: "You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts." This verse contrasts the old covenant, which was inscribed on stone tablets, with the new covenant, which emphasizes internal transformation and spiritual renewal.​

Bible Hub+1

Divorce
God issued Israel a “certificate of divorce” to formalize the covenant rupture provoked by entrenched idolatry, to warn Judah through a tangible precedent, and to highlight His holiness and justice while simultaneously preparing for a grander reconciliation in the Messiah. The prophetic metaphor, legally grounded, historically corroborated, and textually secure, ultimately serves the redemptive arc culminating in the gospel of Christ.

Does God change?
The change in the law doesn't represent a "change" in God, but the fulfillment of what he had planned all along, thus no change.
In Hebrews 7:12, it states that "for when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed as well." This verse highlights the necessity of a change in the law when the priesthood changes, particularly in the context of the transition from the Levitical priesthood to the order of Melchizedek, which represents a new covenant.

• The Levitical priesthood, established through the lineage of Aaron, was the standard in Israel, but the coming of Jesus as the High Priest in the order of Melchizedek signifies a new covenant that fulfills Old Testament prophecies.
  
  2
• This change emphasizes that while the old covenant served its purpose, it was insufficient for complete reconciliation with God, necessitating a new relationship through Jesus.
  
  2
• The law served its purpose under the old covenant, but under the new covenant, believers are called to live under the law of grace and truth, which offers a direct relationship with God through Jesus.
  
  2
  This verse underscores the significance of the priesthood and law in the Christian faith, illustrating the transition from the old covenant to the new covenant in Christ.

I do not understand how what I say is not with moderation.

There isn't judgment from me in speaking of things like this. Each and everyone will need to answer to God in regard to what they see. God can judge rightly while I don't know what is in the hearts of others, I might even be fooled with what is in my heart. Judgment is really to be reserved. I should know to avoid sin where I see it. If I see things from the Bible that can apply to others, I can speak of that.

Jeremiah who spoke earliest about the new covenant was clear about the essential difference. The law would no longer be limited to the observation of what was written by the finger of God on stone (after having spoken them audibly, and having written in stone twice) but it would be in the hearts of those in the new covenant (which such would live from) and nothing in scriptures is showing change from those commandments, while there are new commandments from Jesus that work with those and are not contrary to them. The grace of God will preserve us in Christ from penalties for our failure, which are justified with the shadow for that in the law that was given, but those penalties are not contained in the ten commandments.

And I question that: when God said the way everything God made to start with was Very Good, that one and only time God said that of anything, anywhere in the Bible, God really meant to change it later, all along. You might really believe that way. It doesn't work for me.

I see God does not change. That way was very good. I still find it to be so. I haven't told you how good it is, how I enjoy what I have this way and how I benefit. I don't know how to tell you. It had never been a sacrifice, while before I had been led to believe it would be.

You both, along with others, really continue to neglect looking at all those early Christian believers who stopped having meat and often anything from animals in their food. And they were observing the example to them. There was no other believable reason they were all coming to that change. As 'vegan' and 'vegetarian' are terms for such observers in modern times I tend to avoid using those to individuals of Bible times. I can point out where individuals then still were not eating meat, and even in cases not eating animal products, without suggesting such modern approaches being associated. I can see various reasons described. I also should not be receiving inappropriate application of things to me, I should be able to speak for myself. So any response should be to what things of my position I am speaking of.

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

I see God is not limited. God created all the universe with it possible for any worlds with life, any other way it would not. God provides for that. God cares for life. God is everywhere, God is not limited in power, and is not limited in caring, God cares for all life. This includes each of us individually. As God cares so there is reason for us to do so. Besides this I see supportive passages that work with this in the Bible, and the Bible is consistent with reality that I see, and the Bible also shows why things go wrong and that God has justice, that will come, with deliverance for the repentant, through Christ. And all creation groans for this deliverance, with hope, waiting for the redemption to be seen which comes to believers. With praying God's will on earth as it is in heaven, we should live with it coming from us, rather than being contrary to it.

 

[Woodznutz]

I do not understand how what I say is not with moderation.

There isn't judgment from me in speaking of things like this. Each and everyone will need to answer to God in regard to what they see. God can judge rightly while I don't know what is in the hearts of others, I might even be fooled with what is in my heart. Judgment is really to be reserved. I should know to avoid sin where I see it. If I see things from the Bible that can apply to others, I can speak of that.

Jeremiah who spoke earliest about the new covenant was clear about the essential difference. The law would no longer be limited to the observation of what was written by the finger of God on stone (after having spoken them audibly, and having written in stone twice) but it would be in the hearts of those in the new covenant (which such would live from) and nothing in scriptures is showing change from those commandments, while there are new commandments from Jesus that work with those and are not contrary to them. The grace of God will preserve us in Christ from penalties for our failure, which are justified with the shadow for that in the law that was given, but those penalties are not contained in the ten commandments.

And I question that: when God said the way everything God made to start with was Very Good, that one and only time God said that of anything, anywhere in the Bible, God really meant to change it later, all along. You might really believe that way. It doesn't work for me.

I see God does not change. That way was very good. I still find it to be so. I haven't told you how good it is, how I enjoy what I have this way and how I benefit. I don't know how to tell you. It had never been a sacrifice, while before I had been led to believe it would be.

You both, along with others, really continue to neglect looking at all those early Christian believers who stopped having meat and often anything from animals in their food. And they were observing the example to them. There was no other believable reason they were all coming to that change. As 'vegan' and 'vegetarian' are terms for such observers in modern times I tend to avoid using those to individuals of Bible times. I can point out where individuals then still were not eating meat, and even in cases not eating animal products, without suggesting such modern approaches being associated. I can see various reasons described. I also should not be receiving inappropriate application of things to me, I should be able to speak for myself. So any response should be to what things of my position I am speaking of.

Abstaining from eating meat I would consider to be "works" (as distinguished from "deeds").

God blessed Israel with the abundance of "flocks and herds" throughout their history. Until the kingdom comes animal agriculture is absolutely essential for human health.

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

Abstaining from eating meat I would consider to be "works" (as distinguished from "deeds").

God blessed Israel with the abundance of "flocks and herds" throughout their history. Until the kingdom comes animal agriculture is absolutely essential for human health.

It does not matter whether eating meat, or not eating meat, is "works". What of it? This discussion does not involve how one is saved. It does involve God's design to start with. Was that of God's will? I say it was. Did God change? I say God did not change. I do say God is entirely reliable. If God ever changed that would not be with the same reliability. There is reason to trust promises from God. I already have information showing that products from animal agriculture are not essential for our health. They are not even better for our health. Having whole foods... without the processed stuff put into foods, with the food derived from plants, is the healthiest for us, with more of the variety of foods from plants being better, up to thirty that are different every week. I don't know about you. I eat only food from plants, as I have for many years, and believing for good reason I am seeing benefits from it, while still really enjoying delicious food I always want to have, but it is still a challenge to me to get as much as thirty that are different of the variety of foods from plants, I don't think I have managed it yet. It is a lot. I guess it works with having different things each day. That doesn't work for me, I carry food I buy back with me (I can walk very fast to the store, no one can outwalk me, and I am an older man now), and is enough of items that I will keep having each day, still with a good variety of vegetables, but I don't think it can be much more. Seasonings must count, I get several of those, I still don't count what I have close to thirty. Having animal products will not help coming close to that.

 

[Woodznutz]

It does not matter whether eating meat, or not eating meat, is "works". What of it? This discussion does not involve how one is saved. It does involve God's design to start with. Was that of God's will? I say it was. Did God change? I say God did not change. I do say God is entirely reliable. If God ever changed that would not be with the same reliability. There is reason to trust promises from God. I already have information showing that products from animal agriculture are not essential for our health. They are not even better for our health. Having whole foods... without the processed stuff put into foods, with the food derived from plants, is the healthiest for us, with more of the variety of foods from plants being better, up to thirty that are different every week. I don't know about you. I eat only food from plants, as I have for many years, and believing for good reason I am seeing benefits from it, while still really enjoying delicious food I always want to have, but it is still a challenge to me to get as much as thirty that are different of the variety of foods from plants, I don't think I have managed it yet. It is a lot. I guess it works with having different things each day. That doesn't work for me, I carry food I buy back with me (I can walk very fast to the store, no one can outwalk me, and I am an older man now), and is enough of items that I will keep having each day, still with a good variety of vegetables, but I don't think it can be much more. Seasonings must count, I get several of those, I still don't count what I have close to thirty. Having animal products will not help coming close to that.

I commend you and other vegans on your dedication. I too am a "health freak" but I do include meat and animal products in my diet. My focus is more on digestion than food choices.

 

[FredVegbarfuss]

I commend you and other vegans on your dedication. I too am a "health freak" but I do include meat and animal products in my diet. My focus is more on digestion than food choices.

Thank you. But there is not much dedication I see to this way. I see choices that are right, then I find ways that I would do accordingly that are not so hard, and with finding tastier meals I actually had ways much easier than I could have expected. I can still say others not doing these things do not know what they are missing. Sure, eskimos cannot have these choices, they still suffer some things that they would not if they lived where they could choose this same way, and would then. As for my walking, I was doing that anyway. I found a way that I can actually walk faster, and as the exertion with it is exercise, I am aging and not really getting exercise otherwise, I made the good choice to do that, walking faster and having the exertion, I think my lungs need me to exercise in that way too. There still is not much for me to call dedication with that. Maybe all the writing I do is with dedication...

I can say from studies I know of and benefits I see that having meat from animals or other things taken from them is not as healthy, digestion not changing anything relevant for that.

Still, I am just sharing the information I know.