Is the world "better off" at 580 ppm or 300 ppm of CO2?

[ding]

Just because you don't examine things, doesn't make them irrational ... just because you won't listen, doesn't mean there's no definition of socialism ...

Maybe some day read you sig line ... just saying ...

Anyone or anything which defies or impedes or evades examination should raise a red flag. Usually they do so because they are afraid that the examination will show incongruities which they want to hide.

If you want to understand the basis for my beliefs on socialism, it's going to take a little effort on your part because something tells me you aren't going to take my word for it. I didn't pull it out of thin air or without good reason.

Alexander I. Solzhenitsyn -- A World Split Apart — Commencement Address Delivered At Harvard University, June 8, 1978

www.orthodoxytoday.org

The Socialist Phenomenon

The battle between individual and group rights appears to be the form the cosmic battle between good and evil has taken.

Social Security Administration
Bonneville Power Administration
Public School Systems

These agencies are subject to FOIA ... anything you want to know, just write them a letter ... just be prepared to pay 25¢ per page ...

IBM
Exxon
The Donald

These folks don't have to tell you squat ... nada ... nothing ...

It's CAPITALISM that denies examination ... how could you get this backwards? ... and then brag about it ...

Our entire judicial system in the United States is Socialism ... do you honestly think it's better for judges to rule in favor of who pays them the most? ... like before? ... this is one of the more important reasons we revolted against George III ...

Just say you won't collect one dime from SSA ... you won't buy power from the place the government commands you to ... obviously you don't take advantage of the free schools in your neighborhood ... one out of three is pretty good I guess ...

You should become a rental manager ... throwing infant children into snowbanks to freeze ... sounds like you'd enjoy that tasty bit of capitalism ... sounds like your good at math ... COLA's are announced to the public (socialism) ... calculate how much extra the tenants gets and raise rents that amount ... ha ha ha ... capitalism at its finest ... it's not the poor's money, it's YOUR money ... dig in ... trap the people, lock them in so deep they'll never be able to afford to move ... modern day serfdom ... a dozen people jacking a time clock just to give you 1/3 their pay ...

What's the difference between socialism and government service? ... not a damn thing ...

You should create a thread and we can discuss it there.

This isn’t really the thread or forum for that.

 

[ReinyDays]

Just a quick note ... I'd like to retract some of the claims I made in this post ... call it tempting the fates or incensing God ... I apologize for my wise-cracks about falling off ladders ... I'm sorry I posted that ... and I do not wish to comment further on the matter ...

 

[ding]

Just a quick note ... I'd like to retract some of the claims I made in this post ... call it tempting the fates or incensing God ... I apologize for my wise-cracks about falling off ladders ... I'm sorry I posted that ... and I do not wish to comment further on the matter ...

Is that your final answer.

 

[ReinyDays]

Just a quick note ... I'd like to retract some of the claims I made in this post ... call it tempting the fates or incensing God ... I apologize for my wise-cracks about falling off ladders ... I'm sorry I posted that ... and I do not wish to comment further on the matter ...

Is that your final answer.

Heavens No ... I'll be going on about this for weeks to come ... maybe months ... such a rich field for complaints ... this could go on forever ...

 

[ding]

Then maybe you should show where I used ice age in the OP, right?

Wrong ... that's your affair, not mine ... you're wrong, just admit it and we can move on ... or, is there anything to move onto? ...

You have your answer ... science cannot tell us ... science doesn't even define "better off" ... try the philosophy forum if you want philosophical answers ...

Imagine my surprise when I stumbled on this...

Quaternary glaciation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So 580 ppm? Or 300?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It is known that even without experimental evidence, a 100% CO2 atmosphere at ground level on Earth will generated a temperature of 900 F just like on Venus, right Warmers?

 

[zaangalewa]

... The transition from the greenhouse world to the icehouse world occurred somewhere between 3 to 5 million years ago. ...

So human beings were able to evolve.

 

[zaangalewa]

...

Why is 350 ppm the "limit of reason?"

What's so special about 350 ppm? ...

You have to know, when you will have to start to close your business and to start to think about to buy a new body.

 

[ding]

... The transition from the greenhouse world to the icehouse world occurred somewhere between 3 to 5 million years ago. ...

So human beings were able to evolve.

And temperature did not follow.

See?

 

[ding]

...

Why is 350 ppm the "limit of reason?"

What's so special about 350 ppm? ...

You have to know, when you will have to start to close your business and to start to think about to buy a new body.

And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Then maybe you should show where I used ice age in the OP, right?

Wrong ... that's your affair, not mine ... you're wrong, just admit it and we can move on ... or, is there anything to move onto? ...

You have your answer ... science cannot tell us ... science doesn't even define "better off" ... try the philosophy forum if you want philosophical answers ...

Imagine my surprise when I stumbled on this...

Quaternary glaciation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So 580 ppm? Or 300?

The Warmers love living under 3 miles of ice

 

[zaangalewa]

These stupid Moon Bats that think the climate is going to change because of the CO2 put out by humans don't know any more about Climate Science than they do Economics,History, Ethics, Biology or the Constitution. ...

... The transition from the greenhouse world to the icehouse world occurred somewhere between 3 to 5 million years ago. ...

So human beings were able to evolve.

And temperature did not follow.

View attachment 378549

See?

No. I see the opposite.

The diagram here shows better this relation: https://wiki.bildungsserver.de/klimawandel/upload/CO2_640000.jpg

 

[ding]

These stupid Moon Bats that think the climate is going to change because of the CO2 put out by humans don't know any more about Climate Science than they do Economics,History, Ethics, Biology or the Constitution. ...

... The transition from the greenhouse world to the icehouse world occurred somewhere between 3 to 5 million years ago. ...

So human beings were able to evolve.

And temperature did not follow.

View attachment 378549

See?

No.

CO2 reinforces climate change. It does not drive it. That's why CO2 lags temperature by ~800 years. And also why temperature - even though you won't admit it - has not followed CO2.

 

[zaangalewa]

...
And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

...

Why is 350 ppm the "limit of reason?"

What's so special about 350 ppm? ...

You have to know, when you will have to start to close your business and to start to think about to buy a new body.

And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

I don't know what our pre-human ancestors more than 40 million years ago said about this life. That they survived this means not we will survive this.

 

[ding]

...
And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

...

Why is 350 ppm the "limit of reason?"

What's so special about 350 ppm? ...

You have to know, when you will have to start to close your business and to start to think about to buy a new body.

And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

I don't know what our pre-human ancestors more than 40 million years ago said about this life. That they survived this means not we will survive this.

If you can't process what an ice age looks like, I am afraid I can't help you.

 

[zaangalewa]

These stupid Moon Bats that think the climate is going to change because of the CO2 put out by humans don't know any more about Climate Science than they do Economics,History, Ethics, Biology or the Constitution. ...

... The transition from the greenhouse world to the icehouse world occurred somewhere between 3 to 5 million years ago. ...

So human beings were able to evolve.

And temperature did not follow.

View attachment 378549

See?

No.

CO2 reinforces climate change. It does not drive it. That's why CO2 lags temperature by ~800 years. And also why temperature - even though you won't admit it - has not followed CO2.

Okay: Very short: Industrial production caused and causes an artificial increase of greenhouse gases. The result is global warming. The problem has a long term characteristics. The people today have to take care for a world of their descendants, which they never will see on their own. But why not to plant trees now, so the next generations will be able to harvest this trees? In case of the global warming the situation is clear: We should use energy efficiently - we should not use oil and coal any longer for the production of energy. Instead of this it is better to use more intelligent methods and a sustainable production and management of energy.

So what is the real problem? We have just simple to react on reality.

 

[zaangalewa]

...
And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

...

Why is 350 ppm the "limit of reason?"

What's so special about 350 ppm? ...

You have to know, when you will have to start to close your business and to start to think about to buy a new body.

And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

I don't know what our pre-human ancestors more than 40 million years ago said about this life. That they survived this means not we will survive this.

If you can't process what an ice age looks like, I am afraid I can't help you.

We are in an ice age. You can see ice on planet Earth. The problem is to leave this ice age. That's perhaps a river of no return.

 

[ding]

These stupid Moon Bats that think the climate is going to change because of the CO2 put out by humans don't know any more about Climate Science than they do Economics,History, Ethics, Biology or the Constitution. ...

... The transition from the greenhouse world to the icehouse world occurred somewhere between 3 to 5 million years ago. ...

So human beings were able to evolve.

And temperature did not follow.

View attachment 378549

See?

No.

CO2 reinforces climate change. It does not drive it. That's why CO2 lags temperature by ~800 years. And also why temperature - even though you won't admit it - has not followed CO2.

Okay: Very short: Industrial production caused and causes an artificial increase of greenhouse gases. The result is global warming. The problem has a long term characteristics. The people today have to take care for a world of their descendants, which they never will see on their own. But why not to plant trees now, so the next generations will be able to harvest this trees? In case of the global warming the situation is clear: We should use energy efficiently - we should not use oil and coal any longer for the production of energy. Instead of this it is better to use more intelligent methods and a sustainable production and management of energy.

So what is the real problem? We have just simple to react on reality.

First of all the phrase artificial isn't correct. Just strike that word because all it shows is your bias. If you want to take care of this world for future generations, 580 ppm is preferable to 300 ppm.

I don't agree with your assessment that we shouldn't use coal or oil. The whole point of this thread is that 580 ppm is superior to 300 ppm. We will get off of coal and oil in due time. When it's right to do so.

 

[ding]

...
And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

...

Why is 350 ppm the "limit of reason?"

What's so special about 350 ppm? ...

You have to know, when you will have to start to close your business and to start to think about to buy a new body.

And people will eventually accept that the threshold for northern hemisphere glaciation is 280 ppm which is a much worse condition than 580 ppm.

I don't know what our pre-human ancestors more than 40 million years ago said about this life. That they survived this means not we will survive this.

If you can't process what an ice age looks like, I am afraid I can't help you.

We are in an ice age. You can see ice on planet Earth. The problem is to leave this ice age. That's perhaps a river of no return.

No. We are in an interglacial cycle. The last glacial cycle ended about 22,000 years ago.

Quaternary glaciation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ReinyDays]

First of all the phrase artificial isn't correct. Just strike that word because all it shows is your bias. If you want to take care of this world for future generations, 580 ppm is preferable to 300 ppm.

I don't agree with your assessment that we shouldn't use coal or oil. The whole point of this thread is that 580 ppm is superior to 300 ppm. We will get off of coal and oil in due time. When it's right to do so.

Why do you think 580 ppm is superior than 300 ppm? ... you've not really clarified the cause-and-effect of any benefit ... and show your math please ...