is the wikileaks founder a traitor or hero?

[random3434]

Find the American ASSHOLE who leaked them in the first place. Any one want to place a bet on that person being a lefty?

I see. Was the traitors that released the info on Plame lefties? Not only published the name of an undercover CIA agent, but also her cover, as well as that of many other agents. But that was just OK with you, because it was good political revenge, right?

But that doesn't count. Remember, he doesn't care if they are left or right, oh wait.....yes he does.

Oh, I forgot to add:


BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(How many times has his name been brought up in this thread?)

 

[hortysir]

Doesn't matter when the Documents were dated or what is contained in them. What matters is that someone with the authority to do so marked them as classified information,whether that be Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret. All classifications even FOUO are so marked because of national security. Some asshole has now hurt that national security and could possibly cause the death of some of our troops.

A traitor during a time of war? Shoot the bastard.

Totally. If some rogue soldier wipes out 50 civilians and the documentation of the incident is marked "Top Secret" we shouldn't know about it. In fact, the soldier should be given a promotion and the person who leaked the information should be shot.

It's so disgusting that someone would leak the truth about civilian deaths and what is actually happening. We need to go back to the days where we could firmly plant our heads in the sand and pretend this stuff didn't happen without it being shoved in our face on a day to day basis.

God Bless America.

Now, THAT is a stretch

 

[random3434]

Doesn't matter when the Documents were dated or what is contained in them. What matters is that someone with the authority to do so marked them as classified information,whether that be Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret. All classifications even FOUO are so marked because of national security. Some asshole has now hurt that national security and could possibly cause the death of some of our troops.

.

Exactly what I said, even ONE is too many.

 

[Dr Grump]

Doesn't matter when the Documents were dated or what is contained in them. What matters is that someone with the authority to do so marked them as classified information,whether that be Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret. All classifications even FOUO are so marked because of national security. Some asshole has now hurt that national security and could possibly cause the death of some of our troops.

A traitor during a time of war? Shoot the bastard.

Sometimes I feel like you are a robot....

 

[JakeStarkey]

SFC Ollie is OK, an uber patriot, but a fine American, unlike some of his colleagues on the right, and some of the funnies on the left. The most sane of Americans are those in the center, like me!

 

[SFC Ollie]

Doesn't matter when the Documents were dated or what is contained in them. What matters is that someone with the authority to do so marked them as classified information,whether that be Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret. All classifications even FOUO are so marked because of national security. Some asshole has now hurt that national security and could possibly cause the death of some of our troops.

A traitor during a time of war? Shoot the bastard.

Totally. If some rogue soldier wipes out 50 civilians and the documentation of the incident is marked "Top Secret" we shouldn't know about it. In fact, the soldier should be given a promotion and the person who leaked the information should be shot.

It's so disgusting that someone would leak the truth about civilian deaths and what is actually happening. We need to go back to the days where we could firmly plant our heads in the sand and pretend this stuff didn't happen without it being shoved in our face on a day to day basis.

God Bless America.

Are you that stupid in real life?

 

[JimH52]

You guys are being ridicules. Some American who had clearance for this shit decided to give it to them, Knowing they would leak it. And you want to sit around and bitch about the messenger? For gods sake man why would he not publish them. Clearly the Person with Clearance who gave them to him, Wanted him to. Hell we may find out it was the Obama Admin that did it... LOL

You are as delusional as anyone I have seen post on here. Do you also sit around and talk to yourself all day?

 

[blu]

Doesn't matter when the Documents were dated or what is contained in them. What matters is that someone with the authority to do so marked them as classified information,whether that be Confidential, Secret, or Top Secret. All classifications even FOUO are so marked because of national security. Some asshole has now hurt that national security and could possibly cause the death of some of our troops.

A traitor during a time of war? Shoot the bastard.

Totally. If some rogue soldier wipes out 50 civilians and the documentation of the incident is marked "Top Secret" we shouldn't know about it. In fact, the soldier should be given a promotion and the person who leaked the information should be shot.

It's so disgusting that someone would leak the truth about civilian deaths and what is actually happening. We need to go back to the days where we could firmly plant our heads in the sand and pretend this stuff didn't happen without it being shoved in our face on a day to day basis.

God Bless America.

Are you that stupid in real life?

hes mocking people like you who trust the government with everything and don't care about oversight of them by ordinary people.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Totally. If some rogue soldier wipes out 50 civilians and the documentation of the incident is marked "Top Secret" we shouldn't know about it. In fact, the soldier should be given a promotion and the person who leaked the information should be shot.

It's so disgusting that someone would leak the truth about civilian deaths and what is actually happening. We need to go back to the days where we could firmly plant our heads in the sand and pretend this stuff didn't happen without it being shoved in our face on a day to day basis.

God Bless America.

Are you that stupid in real life?

hes mocking people like you who trust the government with everything and don't care about oversight of them by ordinary people.

He may mock whatever he likes, fact is that there are many things that we the people shouldn't know about because if we know the enemy knows. Anyone who can't see the damage this can cause is either stupid or blind.

 

[bodecea]

Find the American ASSHOLE who leaked them in the first place. Any one want to place a bet on that person being a lefty?

Possibly....but then again, who would gain by making this Administration look really bad and not succeed? There is always that possibility too.

 

[blu]

Are you that stupid in real life?

hes mocking people like you who trust the government with everything and don't care about oversight of them by ordinary people.

He may mock whatever he likes, fact is that there are many things that we the people shouldn't know about because if we know the enemy knows. Anyone who can't see the damage this can cause is either stupid or blind.

people know that, even wikileaks does as they held back a number of documents and said they will release them in less sensitive times. Personally, I think way more documents should be released like this and there should be a much shorter time limit on when information becomes declassified than there is today. people put 25 and 50 year holds on things so that they can cover up atrocities that will no one will outrage about when they come out decades later

 

[MaggieMae]

Find the American ASSHOLE who leaked them in the first place. Any one want to place a bet on that person being a lefty?

Likely a DOD employee subscribing to child porn, or a Dept. of Ag. employee, or member of the NAACP.

Or some tit-for-tat asshole who's extent of patriotism is "Hey, they did it to Bush, I'm gonna do it to Obama."

 

[MaggieMae]

Hero. I heard about a contractor beheaded. Seeing that nightly on the news will speed up the withdrawal big time. We are swapping spit over their. Our boys victory parade is long overdue.

Yep, the more info they have, quicker and more they can kill. Thus leading to a quick and dishonorable defeat. Bravo!

I don't think there would be any dishonor in changing the strategy from boots on the ground to use of special ops and drones. It's become clear to just about everyone that the war in Afghanistan can't be "won" by conventional warfare. The terrain alone makes it impossible, and the inability to distinguish which members of the Taliban warriors are good guys or bad guys only compounds the problem. And we still aren't working with a unified government that wants us to be there in the first place.

 

[MaggieMae]

What they've done is admirable, but whether he's a hero or traitor is up to debate. Quite frankly, canonizing him or demonizing him as either isn't really going to do anything. Instead of arguing over the morality of what they've done, why not examine the bloody documents they've released? Julian Assange has stated that the documents released contains nothing about current troop movements. There are 15,000 other documents waiting to be released until the names are redacted and those already released are at the very least are seven months old. Hell, Gibbs and even Karzai are saying most of the information isn't even new.

We were promised a more transparent government after all, looks like WikiLeaks stepped up to fulfill that. At any rate, I think the more important question here is the content of the documents themselves. Because it looks like there's a lot of new civilian causalities that weren't reported, which raises the question of just how are we conducting ourselves over there? Does no one else here find it worrying we weren't told about a lot if civilian causalities?

I can't believe you just opened with the word "admirable" and closed with mention of "government transparency".
We got +/-300 pillow biters in DC that can't be bothered to read a 1,500 page healthcare bill, before voting on it, but it's fucking "Admirable" to give the entire planet >90k pages of Classified documents?

the documents released contains nothing about current troop movements

With the slightest amount of logical elimination, any Haji with a computer can calculate where we've been, to what result, and where we're likely to go next.

And, as to why **we weren't told about a lot if civilian causalities?**:
Because we already have enough computer-desk-generals surfing yahoo, google, wiki, and snopes trying to find any-fucking-thing they can to discredit this operation and thus demoralizing my troops.

Sorry, but even with the voluminous reporting and Internet noise, I see very little (if any) demoralization of the troops. It just doesn't happen. Even when the Iraq war was at its bloodiest, when anyone started mouthing off about the behavior of our soldiers and Marines, they were quickly tamped down by people of both political persuasion (at least on the three sites I posted on at the time). The only exception was the immoral activities of those involved in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

 

[Gunny]

he released tons of classified info (traitor) while on the other hand he exposed war crimes and other criminal acts that had been covered up (hero)

so which is it?

There's no right way to do the wrong thing.

He violated the law leaking classified material; regardless, what YOUR politically biased mind wants to believe.

 

[MaggieMae]

Are you that stupid in real life?

hes mocking people like you who trust the government with everything and don't care about oversight of them by ordinary people.

He may mock whatever he likes, fact is that there are many things that we the people shouldn't know about because if we know the enemy knows. Anyone who can't see the damage this can cause is either stupid or blind.

As I posted yesterday, the number of government employees AND employees who work for private contractors who have access to classified information is unacceptable. Perhaps that's where the OA needs to start in order to plug leaks like this.

As for who done it? I'm still plowing through the Washington Post's three-part investigation on national security/intelligence operations, the most shocking revelation so far being that there are literally thousands of private contractors each employing thousands of "analysts" in addition to the thousands of CIA/FBI/NSA/DOD employees who also now have top secret clearances and would be privy to that data. So it's anybody's guess. Maybe it's that dull needle somewhere in the five-mile long, hundred-foot high haystack.

^Post #15

* Some 1,271 government organizations and 1,931 private companies work on programs related to counterterrorism, homeland security and intelligence in about 10,000 locations across the United States.

* An estimated 854,000 people, nearly 1.5 times as many people as live in Washington, D.C., hold top-secret security clearances.

* In Washington and the surrounding area, 33 building complexes for top-secret intelligence work are under construction or have been built since September 2001. Together they occupy the equivalent of almost three Pentagons or 22 U.S. Capitol buildings - about 17 million square feet of space.

A hidden world, growing beyond control | washingtonpost.com

 

[Woyzeck]

It's also come to light through these documents that friendly-fire may have inadvertently killed some Canadian soldiers. The Canadian military said it was insurgents. Looks like somebody may have lied.

Also of note, soldiers are going to be in danger whether documents are released or not, being that they are in a war-zone after all.

 

[hortysir]

Find the American ASSHOLE who leaked them in the first place. Any one want to place a bet on that person being a lefty?

Possibly....but then again, who would gain by making this Administration look really bad and not succeed? There is always that possibility too.

*ahem*
The leaked documents are from a time period that this admin would have zero culpability for.

 

[hortysir]

What they've done is admirable, but whether he's a hero or traitor is up to debate. Quite frankly, canonizing him or demonizing him as either isn't really going to do anything. Instead of arguing over the morality of what they've done, why not examine the bloody documents they've released? Julian Assange has stated that the documents released contains nothing about current troop movements. There are 15,000 other documents waiting to be released until the names are redacted and those already released are at the very least are seven months old. Hell, Gibbs and even Karzai are saying most of the information isn't even new.

We were promised a more transparent government after all, looks like WikiLeaks stepped up to fulfill that. At any rate, I think the more important question here is the content of the documents themselves. Because it looks like there's a lot of new civilian causalities that weren't reported, which raises the question of just how are we conducting ourselves over there? Does no one else here find it worrying we weren't told about a lot if civilian causalities?

I can't believe you just opened with the word "admirable" and closed with mention of "government transparency".
We got +/-300 pillow biters in DC that can't be bothered to read a 1,500 page healthcare bill, before voting on it, but it's fucking "Admirable" to give the entire planet >90k pages of Classified documents?

the documents released contains nothing about current troop movements

With the slightest amount of logical elimination, any Haji with a computer can calculate where we've been, to what result, and where we're likely to go next.

And, as to why **we weren't told about a lot if civilian causalities?**:
Because we already have enough computer-desk-generals surfing yahoo, google, wiki, and snopes trying to find any-fucking-thing they can to discredit this operation and thus demoralizing my troops.

Sorry, but even with the voluminous reporting and Internet noise, I see very little (if any) demoralization of the troops. It just doesn't happen. Even when the Iraq war was at its bloodiest, when anyone started mouthing off about the behavior of our soldiers and Marines, they were quickly tamped down by people of both political persuasion (at least on the three sites I posted on at the time). The only exception was the immoral activities of those involved in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

Thanks for a civil reply to my over-the-top post, Maggie.
I was tired and irritable, and this leak really gets under my skin.

As to the highlighted section, I should ask if we should add a, "that is reported" qualifier to that statement.
Being in the comfort of our homes, we can't accurately testify to our troops morale can we?

 

[Colin]

Sorry, but even with the voluminous reporting and Internet noise, I see very little (if any) demoralization of the troops. It just doesn't happen. Even when the Iraq war was at its bloodiest, when anyone started mouthing off about the behavior of our soldiers and Marines, they were quickly tamped down by people of both political persuasion (at least on the three sites I posted on at the time). The only exception was the immoral activities of those involved in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

It isn't situations like this that affect the morale of troops. It's grey suited polticians and Generals playing politics by fucking around with ROEs, where the right to self defence suddenly becomes 'courageous restraint'!