Zone1 Is the death penalty un-Christian or un-civilized? Poll

[GreatestIam]

Fair question, but hear me out – God didn’t make murderers, He made mankind good. Sin broke man’s nature. “God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes” (Eccl. 7:29). Evil is never the product of someone’s upbringing or “nature” – Jesus said it originates in the human heart: “Out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander” (Matt. 15:19).

This is why justice exists – not to rehabilitate sin, but to restrain it. God has ordained governments to bear the sword (Rom. 13:4) to deter evil and preserve righteousness. When a murderer takes an innocent life, he renders his own forfeit by that moral law (Gen. 9:6). It’s not revenge, it’s justice – because life is valuable to God.

If justice miscarries and the innocent are killed, that’s why Scripture commands truth and fairness: “One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity… at the mouth of two or three witnesses shall the matter be established” (Deut. 19:15). God hates injustice. If the system breaks, it’s man’s failure, not God’s intent. Justice must be prudent, but it must be executed.

The point is, the fact that sin exists doesn’t negate justice – it shows why we need it.

Sin did not break our nature. We are naturally born as sinners. That is why you likely sing along on your Exsultet hymn that calls Adam's sin a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh's plan, then Adam did the right thing in sinning. Right?

As to justice, would you go to Hitler for good justice? If not, why go to an even bigger genocidal prick?

 

[GreatestIam]

There is no death, no disease, no oppression, no evil in the world until man has rebelled

There was also no reproduction as the knowledge of the good and evil aspects of it were denied A & E. They had to eat of knowledge of it before being able to do it.

No sin = no world.

We were to stupid to know how to screw.

 

[GreatestIam]

Thank what god? Who is your god? How did you learn of him? So far, all I can tell is that you just made him up. Did you?

But, that is not what the Bible says.

Quantrill

Do, you believe in talking serpents and donkeys?

Should you be reading the bible literally?

 

[bdavidc]

Sin did not break our nature. We are naturally born as sinners. That is why you likely sing along on your Exsultet hymn that calls Adam's sin a happy fault and necessary to Yahweh's plan, then Adam did the right thing in sinning. Right?

As to justice, would you go to Hitler for good justice? If not, why go to an even bigger genocidal prick?

Actually, you have it backwards. Scripture never says man was created sinful. To the contrary, “God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good” (Genesis 1:31). Sin entered later through one man’s disobedience (Romans 5:12). That’s not a design flaw, it’s rebellion. Adam wasn’t created to sin, he chose to. And ever since, mankind has been born into a fallen condition, not created that way. There’s a difference between being created good and later corrupted by sin.

Calling God a “genocidal prick” is just ignorant talk that never changes truth, only reveals contempt for the Judge you’ll one day face. God’s justice isn’t like man’s. “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18:25). When God judges, He does so perfectly, without bias, without error, and with full knowledge of every heart.

Comparing God to Hitler is blasphemous. Hitler murdered the innocent. God executes perfect justice on the guilty. There’s a vast difference between sinful wrath and righteous judgment. The cross of Christ proves that God is both “just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:26). That’s mercy and justice meeting in one place.

The real issue isn’t whether you approve of God’s justice, it’s whether you’ll humble yourself before Him while mercy is still offered.

 

[bdavidc]

There was also no reproduction as the knowledge of the good and evil aspects of it were denied A & E. They had to eat of knowledge of it before being able to do it.

No sin = no world.

We were to stupid to know how to screw.

That's nonsense. Adam and Eve were created male and female and commanded to reproduce before the fall. "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth." (Genesis 1:28). That was before the fall, not after. Their reproductive capability was not dependent on sin or "knowledge of good and evil." It was part of God's perfect original design.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil had nothing to do with sexual intercourse, it had to do with moral authority. Only God has the right to say what is good and what is evil. When Adam and Eve ate of that tree they were attempting to arrogate that authority to themselves. That is rebellion, not enlightenment.

Your assertion that "no sin = no world" is the exact opposite of Scripture. Sin did not create life, it corrupted life. "Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin" (Romans 5:12). The world was created in perfection before sin, and it will be recreated in perfection when sin is finally done away with (Revelation 21:4).

Making a mockery of what God has made holy does not make it foolish, it only reveals how low human pride has fallen.

 

[DGS49]

The DP, when properly carried out, is a very Christian thing to do, and is entirely appropriate for crimes that the Sovereign deems "capital."

One might remember that the late JC submitted without serious protest to the death penalty to end his own life - at least temporarily.

In a rational society of True Believers, the death penalty is a very compassionate thing to do, both to the victims and to the condemned person. You are giving them advanced notice of the time of their demise, along with sufficient time to make peace with the Creator.

Nothing could be more compassionate.

Those "Christians" who say it would be better to lock him up in a dungeon with other killers and violent felons for decades are...how shall I say?...stupid on steroids. On this matter, my own beloved RC Church is out of its collective mind.

 

[Mr Natural]

Thou shalt not kill.

 

[bdavidc]

Thou shalt not kill.

“Thou shalt not kill” (Exodus 20: 13) is the text commonly raised against capital punishment, but we need to understand what God was saying by that in context. The Hebrew word for “kill” there, ratsach, means murder (the illegal, personal taking of life), not every killing.

God also commanded capital punishment in the same Law. “Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God He made man” (Genesis 9:6). This predates the Mosaic Law by thousands of years, when God gave this to Noah. It was not part of the Law given to Moses. It was a principle established by God for the governing of man by man. The civil authorities in Romans 13:4 are described as “the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.”

So, individuals may not take life out of anger or revenge, but the government, on behalf of God, may and should.

A Christian may oppose the death penalty personally as an act of mercy, but not on the basis that Scripture prohibits it. Scripture forbids murder, not capital justice.

 

[playtime]

You have to make stuff up to justify your position.

you mean like:

Nice zone 1 racism accusation there.

 

[Meathead]

Thou shalt not kill.

Exactly. When was the last time anyone was executed for anything else but heinous murder.

Think it was the Rosenbergs back in the 50s.

 

[GreatestIam]

Actually, you have it backwards. Scripture never says man was created sinful. To the contrary, “God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good” (Genesis 1:31). Sin entered later through one man’s disobedience (Romans 5:12). That’s not a design flaw, it’s rebellion. Adam wasn’t created to sin, he chose to. And ever since, mankind has been born into a fallen condition, not created that way. There’s a difference between being created good and later corrupted by sin.

Calling God a “genocidal prick” is just ignorant talk that never changes truth, only reveals contempt for the Judge you’ll one day face. God’s justice isn’t like man’s. “Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18:25). When God judges, He does so perfectly, without bias, without error, and with full knowledge of every heart.

Comparing God to Hitler is blasphemous. Hitler murdered the innocent. God executes perfect justice on the guilty. There’s a vast difference between sinful wrath and righteous judgment. The cross of Christ proves that God is both “just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus” (Romans 3:26). That’s mercy and justice meeting in one place.

The real issue isn’t whether you approve of God’s justice, it’s whether you’ll humble yourself before Him while mercy is still offered.

What is Baptism? Now stop lying if you wish to continue.

The real issue is why you adore a genocidal prick of a God who can cure as easily as kill? What is wrong with your morals?

 

[GreatestIam]

That's nonsense. Adam and Eve were created male and female and commanded to reproduce before the fall. "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth." (Genesis 1:28). That was before the fall, not after. Their reproductive capability was not dependent on sin or "knowledge of good and evil." It was part of God's perfect original design.

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil had nothing to do with sexual intercourse, it had to do with moral authority. Only God has the right to say what is good and what is evil. When Adam and Eve ate of that tree they were attempting to arrogate that authority to themselves. That is rebellion, not enlightenment.

Your assertion that "no sin = no world" is the exact opposite of Scripture. Sin did not create life, it corrupted life. "Through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin" (Romans 5:12). The world was created in perfection before sin, and it will be recreated in perfection when sin is finally done away with (Revelation 21:4).

Making a mockery of what God has made holy does not make it foolish, it only reveals how low human pride has fallen.

So Satan was a part of the perfection before sin.

You make my case. You also forgot about the rib woman so you might read the whole bible some time.

 

[GreatestIam]

it corrupted life

All while you sing of Adam's sin as necessary to God's plan.

Explain that and we can chat.

Hint. Without sin, you would not need Jesus.

 

[GreatestIam]

One might remember that the late JC submitted without serious protest to the death penalty to end his own life - at least temporarily.

An outright lie only believed by those whose minds have been corrupted by supernatural thinking or belief.

Wasn't there even a commandment about not killing, that fools now define as murder, going against the spirit of that commandment?

 

[GreatestIam]

Exactly. When was the last time anyone was executed for anything else but heinous murder.

Think it was the Rosenbergs back in the 50s.

Not to knit pick, but our error rates on executing the wrong people should not be ignored, given how often we are killing the wrong victim.

 

[Quantrill]

Do, you believe in talking serpents and donkeys?

Should you be reading the bible literally?

Again, thank what god? Who is your god? What is his name? How did you learn of him?

Yes, the Bible is interpreted literally.

Quantrill

 

[DGS49]

"Thou shalt not MURDER." One would think that every literate human understands the correct translation by this time. "Thou shalt not kill," is absurd and easily refuted. Killing - even mass killing - can often be justified as correct moral behavior, in response to mass inhumanity (e.g., attempted genocide).

 

[Woodznutz]

The church has put people to death for all sorts of reasons for thousands of years. Blasphemy, adultery, witchcraft, etc. The death penalty was super common back in the day. They burned little girls at the stake for crying out loud! They even tortured a bunch of very unfortunate people to death.

That was the false church, which also persecuted and murdered members of the true church.