Zone1 Is the Catholic tradition of Papacy something Jesus mentioned ?

[lightspectera]

.

We see clearly in Mat 16:19 Jesus is speaking to Peter directly concerning the " KEYS TO THE KINGDOM "


but why is it that Roman Catholics do not mention that this was a message and meaning that Jesus mentions multiple times

we see that this conversation with Peter is where Jesus was located,

Jesus was = in the coasts of Caesarea Philippi

:13 Jesus was in the coasts of Caesarea Philippi - He tells Peter about the
" Keys To The Kingdom "

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus ......... bringeth them up into an high mountain apart

:9 And - they came down from the mountain,

Jesus then travels to Galilee and spends at least 1 day preaching to the people


Jesus then travels 20 miles to Capernaum and again he makes the same statement to all of his disciples with a little child sitting with them all.

Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them

this is at least a full week later and Jesus again makes the same exact statement - -

ONLY HE IS NOT SPEAKING TO PETER ALONE AND HE ALSO EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT IS THE EXACT MEANING OF " THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM "

WHAT THIS MEANS - - EXACLTY

Jesus speaking of his his disciples with a little child sitting there with them

Jesus explains to them all -----------


Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Again I say unto you,.............................

:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.



but why is it that Roman Catholics friends specifically fail to mention that a whole week later Jesus goes on to explain exactly in detail what this means

as he provides details that " THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM " are about praying and joining others in prayer - and coming together in agreement to pray

" THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM " - are described exactly - as two or more believers whom shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven

2 or more pray and agree on earth - it shall be done - in heaven


Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

how is this something that the Pope in Rome can make claim to insist that this strictly applies to his position of authority alone ?

Would not this one dishonest claim completely void the authority of the entire Roman Catholic Church and its Papal Traditions ?

 

[excalibur]

There was always intended to be a visible head of the Church upon Earth.

We see in Acts that they chose a successor to Judas, to fill what would have been his (Judas') bishopric.

Act 1:20 -

“For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms: “‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’ and, “‘May another take his place of leadership.’​

 

[JGalt]

AI Overview



The Bible doesn't explicitly mention the institution of the papacy as we know it,
but it contains key passages, especially in the Gospels, that Catholics interpret as establishing Peter's unique leadership role (the "rock") and granting him authority (the "keys of the kingdom"), which Catholic tradition extends to his successors, the Popes, forming the basis for the papacy, though Protestants often interpret these verses differently, emphasizing Christ as the sole foundation and the equality of apostles.

Key Biblical Passages & Interpretations:

• Matthew 16:18-19 (The "Rock" and Keys):
  • Catholic View: Jesus calls Simon "Peter" (rock) and says He will build His Church on this rock, giving Peter the keys to the kingdom, signifying supreme authority passed to the Bishop of Rome.
  • Protestant View: The "rock" is Peter's confession of faith (that Jesus is the Christ), or Christ Himself, not Peter as an individual, and the keys are general authority given to all apostles.
• John 21:15-17 (Feed My Sheep):
  • Catholic View: Jesus repeatedly commissioning Peter to "feed my lambs/sheep" shows his role as universal shepherd and leader of the Church, a role inherited by the Pope.
• Luke 22:31-32 (Strengthen Your Brethren):
  • Catholic View: Jesus prays for Peter's restoration after his denial, highlighting his unique role in upholding the faith of the other apostles.
• Isaiah 22:15-25 (Eliakim):
  • Catholic View: This Old Testament passage about Eliakim, the steward given the "key of the house of David" and authority over the palace, serves as a foreshadowing of Peter's role as Christ's chief steward.

Other Relevant Texts:

• Acts of the Apostles: Peter often takes the lead in decision-making (e.g., choosing Matthias in Acts 1) and evangelization (Acts 10), seen as early examples of his leadership.
• Revelation 21 The New Jerusalem has twelve foundations with the names of the twelve apostles, which some view as showing the apostles' equal standing, contrasting with papal claims.

In essence, while the term "papacy" isn't in the Bible, Catholic tradition sees specific texts and patterns of authority pointing to Peter as the first Pope, while other traditions emphasize Christ as the sole foundation and leaders' equality."

 

[TheInfiniteSadness]

No. Nothing Jesus preached had anything to do with Catholics because they didn't exist. Biblical verses can be interpreted anyway a person wants. It's all dependent on who's reading them. That's why there are so many different Christian religions. They didn't like what the Catholic Church was saying so they created their own church.

The best example is the Anglican Church. Henry the VIII wanted a divorce and the Pope wouldn't give him one so he made his own Christian Religion.

 

[luiza]

Would not this one dishonest claim completely void the authority of the entire Roman Catholic Church and its Papal Traditions ?

Not really , imho .
The Essene monk was referring to Manifestation throughout his ministry .
This is abundantly clear from the gospel of St Thomas .

Which is why Constantine made sure it had no place in the "bible" .
He could not have Sheeple believing that they had no need of an Emperor or God in the Sky .
Like all leaders he wanted Sheeple under full control . easy to manipulate , loyal and gullible .

 

[DennisPTate]

.

We see clearly in Mat 16:19 Jesus is speaking to Peter directly concerning the " KEYS TO THE KINGDOM "


but why is it that Roman Catholics do not mention that this was a message and meaning that Jesus mentions multiple times

we see that this conversation with Peter is where Jesus was located,

Jesus was = in the coasts of Caesarea Philippi

:13 Jesus was in the coasts of Caesarea Philippi - He tells Peter about the
" Keys To The Kingdom "

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus ......... bringeth them up into an high mountain apart

:9 And - they came down from the mountain,

Jesus then travels to Galilee and spends at least 1 day preaching to the people


Jesus then travels 20 miles to Capernaum and again he makes the same statement to all of his disciples with a little child sitting with them all.

Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them

this is at least a full week later and Jesus again makes the same exact statement - -

ONLY HE IS NOT SPEAKING TO PETER ALONE AND HE ALSO EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT IS THE EXACT MEANING OF " THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM "

WHAT THIS MEANS - - EXACLTY

Jesus speaking of his his disciples with a little child sitting there with them

Jesus explains to them all -----------


Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Again I say unto you,.............................

:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.



but why is it that Roman Catholics friends specifically fail to mention that a whole week later Jesus goes on to explain exactly in detail what this means

as he provides details that " THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM " are about praying and joining others in prayer - and coming together in agreement to pray

" THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM " - are described exactly - as two or more believers whom shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven

2 or more pray and agree on earth - it shall be done - in heaven


Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

how is this something that the Pope in Rome can make claim to insist that this strictly applies to his position of authority alone ?

Would not this one dishonest claim completely void the authority of the entire Roman Catholic Church and its Papal Traditions ?

In order to deal with the specific question in your title:
"Is the Catholic tradition of Papacy something Jesus mentioned ?" I would have to get into the teachings of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus about the greatest actually being the "servant" of all, and should be humble like a little child.

 

[lightspectera]

the facts show

Jesus is literally taking the message concerning the Keys to the Kingdom on a full week journey as he mentioned this then six days later he goes up and down a mountain and then makes a 20 mile journey to another city

he again mentions these same "" Keys to the Kingdom "" with all of his disciples and a congregation of people and little children gathered around him.,

he attempts to make known the meaning of the Keys to the Kingdom, he explains exactly what this means and does not leave it open for any other imaginative prophecy or further explanation or open for confusion and questioning debate, there is no fill the blank and insert what this possibly may mean...

the point I wanted to make was that the Roman Catholic faith system cannot connect or tie together these two events where Jesus first introduces this to Peter and then a full week later again introduces this to the whole world as

- all mankind are given these same keys. as if only selected and limited phrases, partial explanations that are ripped out of context from random select passages

Roman Catholic teaching is build solely upon partial passages and attempting to attach them to another random partial set of limited verses and simply making assumptions and doctrines and ideas about selected verses, half sentences, half phrases and partial chapters.

even the glomerating is selective across the spectrum. all it takes is a single word that is played upon and the rest of the surrounding body of context is meaningless - just that one word or half sentence that is elevated to a Catholic Spiritual Power Word or power phrase

 

[Cougarbear]

.

We see clearly in Mat 16:19 Jesus is speaking to Peter directly concerning the " KEYS TO THE KINGDOM "


but why is it that Roman Catholics do not mention that this was a message and meaning that Jesus mentions multiple times

we see that this conversation with Peter is where Jesus was located,

Jesus was = in the coasts of Caesarea Philippi

:13 Jesus was in the coasts of Caesarea Philippi - He tells Peter about the
" Keys To The Kingdom "

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus ......... bringeth them up into an high mountain apart

:9 And - they came down from the mountain,

Jesus then travels to Galilee and spends at least 1 day preaching to the people


Jesus then travels 20 miles to Capernaum and again he makes the same statement to all of his disciples with a little child sitting with them all.

Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them

this is at least a full week later and Jesus again makes the same exact statement - -

ONLY HE IS NOT SPEAKING TO PETER ALONE AND HE ALSO EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT IS THE EXACT MEANING OF " THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM "

WHAT THIS MEANS - - EXACLTY

Jesus speaking of his his disciples with a little child sitting there with them

Jesus explains to them all -----------


Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Again I say unto you,.............................

:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.



but why is it that Roman Catholics friends specifically fail to mention that a whole week later Jesus goes on to explain exactly in detail what this means

as he provides details that " THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM " are about praying and joining others in prayer - and coming together in agreement to pray

" THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM " - are described exactly - as two or more believers whom shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven

2 or more pray and agree on earth - it shall be done - in heaven


Mat 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

how is this something that the Pope in Rome can make claim to insist that this strictly applies to his position of authority alone ?

Would not this one dishonest claim completely void the authority of the entire Roman Catholic Church and its Papal Traditions ?

Keep trying. Doesn’t work. The keys were given to Peter. Then handed to other apostles until none were left. The authority of the keys were lost to those Christians left. And, the Pope is no apostle or prophet. The Catholic Church is in a state of apostasy along with being the counterfeit church of Jesus Christ. No apostles or prophets.

 

[Zebra]

The more I read that Catholics are all wrong, the more Catholic I feel ..

 

[lightspectera]

Keep trying. Doesn’t work. The keys were given to Peter. Then handed to other apostles until none were left. The authority of the keys were lost to those Christians left. And, the Pope is no apostle or prophet. The Catholic Church is in a state of apostasy along with being the counterfeit church of Jesus Christ. No apostles or prophets.

what if what you say about this " apostasy and counterfeit " is the very attitude of the Roman Catholic Church and this explanation is in exact very way the Catholic Church members describe their Church.

they freely admit they are in " apostasy and counterfeit " but they believe that this only because they need a new spiritual leader -

please consider
... ... - - Jesus gives the " Keys to the Kingdom " to Peter while they are in Caesarea Philippi

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus ......... bringeth them up into an high mountain apart
:9 And - they came down from the mountain,

Jesus then travels to Galilee and spends at least 1 day preaching to the people


Jesus then travels 20 miles to Capernaum and again he makes the same statement to all of his disciples with a little child sitting with them all.

this is at least a full week later and Jesus again makes the same exact statement - -

ONLY HE IS NOT SPEAKING TO PETER ALONE

AND HE ALSO EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT IS THE EXACT MEANING OF -
" THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM "

WHAT THIS MEANS - = EXACLTY

Jesus speaking directly to all his his disciples with a little child sitting there with them, there are children and families there and he is speaking to them all

Jesus explains to them all -----------


Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Again I say unto you ..,...................meaning..........

:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

is he speaking of two or three popes or two or three Christian believers ?

 

[Cougarbear]

what if what you say about this " apostasy and counterfeit " is the very attitude of the Roman Catholic Church and this explanation is in exact very way the Catholic Church members describe their Church. they freely admit they are in " apostasy and counterfeit " but they believe that this only because they need a new spiritual leader - please consider ... ... - - Jesus gives the " Keys to the Kingdom " to Peter while they are in Caesarea Philippi Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus ......... bringeth them up into an high mountain apart :9 And - they came down from the mountain, Jesus then travels to Galilee and spends at least 1 day preaching to the people Jesus then travels 20 miles to Capernaum and again he makes the same statement to all of his disciples with a little child sitting with them all. this is at least a full week later and Jesus again makes the same exact statement - - ONLY HE IS NOT SPEAKING TO PETER ALONE AND HE ALSO EXPLAINS EXACTLY WHAT IS THE EXACT MEANING OF - " THE KEYS TO THE KINGDOM " WHAT THIS MEANS - = EXACLTY Jesus speaking directly to all his his disciples with a little child sitting there with them, there are children and families there and he is speaking to them all Jesus explains to them all ----------- Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you ..,...................meaning.......... :19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. :20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. is he speaking of two or three popes or two or three Christian believers ?

I know there are many Catholics who think their current Pope is counterfeit to the "real" Catholic Church. Whether current Catholics reject their Church is not the issue. The issue is that the Catholic Church is in apostasy because their Priesthood does not hold the same Keys of the Kingdom that Peter was given. The Keys were originally given to Peter and the other Apostles only. The "Keys" are the "Authority" to administer the authority of Father in Heaven, through His Son, Jesus Christ, through the chief Apostle of the Lord. From that point, certain men in the Priesthood hold Keys of Authority to direct the Church to fulfill all of Father's Plan of Salvation and Exaltation. Which is to bring to past the immortality and eternal life of mankind.

Also, the word is "Keys" , Plural. While the Apostles hold all the keys, including sealing or binding people on earth so they can be sealed together in Heaven too, only one of the Apostles can exercise all the Keys at the same time and is therefore the Prophet of the Church as well. Peter had to remind Paul and others as well to follow his direction as Senior Apostle. So, there are others as well that hold keys like bishops and others. But not the general population of the Lord's true Church. I know protestants want to think it does but it didn't in Peter's days and not in our days. You are conflating two separate talks and their meanings with each other.

Lastly, since the Catholic Church began in Apostasy and continues to be in Apostasy, then anyone or organization that comes out of the Apostasy organization is also in the state of Apostasy. Pretty simple to deduce that logically. Right? The Church of Jesus Christ has to then be a Church of restoration. A restored Church of Jesus Christ.

 

[onefour1]

Is the Catholic tradition of Papacy something Jesus mentioned ?​

The word Pope means "father". Here is what Jesus mentions about it:

Matthew 23:7-10
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

 

[Cougarbear]

Is the Catholic tradition of Papacy something Jesus mentioned ?​

The word Pope means "father". Here is what Jesus mentions about it:

Matthew 23:7-10
7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Glad I never got a Master's degree.
When I was teaching at a private Catholic High School (for 16 years), every so often, we would have a mass before a teacher's meeting with the administration. The local "Father" at the Church next to the school came and lead the mass. In a prayer he led, he quoted that very scripture. When he said call no man your father, I open my eyes to see if there was any questionable looks on the teacher's faces. One teacher-coach did. I always wondered if he confronted the Father who led the mass. Maybe Mariweather could answer that one.

 

[ding]

how is this something that the Pope in Rome can make claim to insist that this strictly applies to his position of authority alone ?

How does knowing the answer to your question improve your relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

 

[Cougarbear]

How does knowing the answer to your question improve your relationship with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

Not sure of your point. The answer is simple. It’s Catholic doctrine. They think it’s because he’s in direct line with Peter. But, he’s not. If he was he would be called a prophet or apostle. He’s neither and the foundation is built on tradition and not sound doctrine of apostles and prophets.

 

[ding]

Not sure of your point. The answer is simple. It’s Catholic doctrine. They think it’s because he’s in direct line with Peter. But, he’s not. If he was he would be called a prophet or apostle. He’s neither and the foundation is built on tradition and not sound doctrine of apostles and prophets.

My point is pretty simple. No one should let their religious dogma or the religious dogma of anyone else interfere with their relationship with the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit. If that relationship is right, then everything else works itself out.

 

[Cougarbear]

My point is pretty simple. No one should let their religious dogma or the religious dogma of anyone else interfere with their relationship with the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit. If that relationship is right, then everything else works itself out.

Depends what “right” right is. If what you try to bring into someone is less than what they have I would agree with you. But, if it adds to someone’s faith, belief and eternal life then I would disagree. For instance, if what you say is true why did Jesus go and preach to those in spirit prison if you think it’s a nuisance to proselytize true and more correct doctrines.

 

[ding]

Depends what “right” right is. If what you try to bring into someone is less than what they have I would agree with you. But, if it adds to someone’s faith, belief and eternal life then I would disagree. For instance, if what you say is true why did Jesus go and preach to those in spirit prison if you think it’s a nuisance to proselytize true and more correct doctrines.

Do you believe you and I arguing over Peter will bring us closer to God?

 

[Cougarbear]

Do you believe you and I arguing over Peter will bring us closer to God?

Our doctrine gives hope for our ancestors of our individual families that never had the opportunity to hear the true and fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and receive by covenant through ordinances such as baptism by water and of the spirit. Hope! Your gospel does not give this hope. Your gospel damns everyone who ever lived and will lived without knowing and having the opportunity to be baptized by water and of the spirit with full authority. And, for most, even those with no authority attempting to baptize. We take the dead gospel you preach and make it alive for all who has ever lived. The gospel of hope!

 

[ding]

Our doctrine gives hope for our ancestors of our individual families that never had the opportunity to hear the true and fulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and receive by covenant through ordinances such as baptism by water and of the spirit. Hope! Your gospel does not give this hope. Your gospel damns everyone who ever lived and will lived without knowing and having the opportunity to be baptized by water and of the spirit with full authority. And, for most, even those with no authority attempting to baptize. We take the dead gospel you preach and make it alive for all who has ever lived. The gospel of hope!

Do you believe you and I arguing over this ^^^ will bring us closer to God?