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Is religion as such a false concept in any form?

anotherlife

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Religions of all kinds have one purpose, to save the soul from torture and destruction upon death. Or even during life.

But all religions rely on the knowing of cause and effect, the anticipation of consequences. Such a thing is not part of the soul. That is part of the spirit.

So how can religions aim at saving souls when they demand souls to perform what is not in them? Spirits could perform, but it is not the spirit but the soul that can be lost.

So, are all religions a failed concept categorically?
 
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C_Clayton_Jones

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Religions of all kinds have one purpose, to save the soul from torture and destruction upon death. Or even during life.

But all religions rely on the knowing of cause and effect, the anticipation of consequences. Such a thing is not part of the soul. That is part of the spirit.

So how can religions aim at saving souls when they demand souls to perform what is not in them? Spirits could perform, but it is not the spirit but the soul that can be lost.

So, are all religions a failed concept categorically?
The one purpose of all religions is to control – and for more than 10,000 years religion has been very successful at realizing that purpose.
 

ding

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Religion provides answers to the origin questions. Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Religion teaches that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit. Religion serves to bind the community together. Religion inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion serves to create traditions. Religion brings order to our lives. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill. Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork. Religion gave us incredible music. Religion gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII.
 

onefour1

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When the doctrines of religions conflict with each other, either both religions are false or 1 of the religions is true, but both cannot be true. Because of this, not all religions can be true. So I would have to say that I believe some religions would have to be false because of the conflicting doctrines they have with each other. As an example, if God is thought to be a man in one religion and not a woman, but in another religion God is thought to be a woman and not a man, then they both cannot be true. It is however possible that both are false coming from a logical point of view.
 
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anotherlife

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Religions of all kinds have one purpose, to save the soul from torture and destruction upon death. Or even during life.

But all religions rely on the knowing of cause and effect, the anticipation of consequences. Such a thing is not part of the soul. That is part of the spirit.

So how can religions aim at saving souls when they demand souls to perform what is not in them? Spirits could perform, but it is not the spirit but the soul that can be lost.

So, are all religions a failed concept categorically?
The one purpose of all religions is to control – and for more than 10,000 years religion has been very successful at realizing that purpose.
Some religions are for control but not all. The ones that are for control are dominant. They are usually covert. They are often called cults, but usually they prefer to have no name.
 
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anotherlife

anotherlife

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Religion provides answers to the origin questions. Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Religion teaches that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit. Religion serves to bind the community together. Religion inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion serves to create traditions. Religion brings order to our lives. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill. Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork. Religion gave us incredible music. Religion gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII.

These are possible to understand except these three:

Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Religion teaches that actions have consequences.

These assume a unity between spirit and soul. At death or under torture this unity doesn't exist. A religion should definitely consider the impossibility of this.
 

Batcat

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Religions of all kinds have one purpose, to save the soul from torture and destruction upon death. Or even during life.

But all religions rely on the knowing of cause and effect, the anticipation of consequences. Such a thing is not part of the soul. That is part of the spirit.

So how can religions aim at saving souls when they demand souls to perform what is not in them? Spirits could perform, but it is not the spirit but the soul that can be lost.

So, are all religions a failed concept categorically?

The basic idea of religion historically was to control the population cheaply.

You tell the people that a god is watching them and if they behave they will prosper and enjoy a good life. If they don’t obey the rules the god will bring droughts, floods and enemies to ruin their lives.

It works better than hiring an enormous number of cops to watch over everybody. Plus you can get them to give donations to the god that you can use or give to the priest class to keep them happy And loyal to you.

Plus you can often fire up your people to attack other tribes or nations with different gods to increase your power and wealth.

You can sacrifice virgins or babies to appease your god. Intense ceremonies for your people.

In some religions you can have a whole bunch of gods which will keep the people busy trying to keep all of them happy.
 

ding

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Religion provides answers to the origin questions. Religion promotes the virtues of thankfulness, forgiveness, humility, chastity, temperance, charity, diligence, patience and kindness. Religion creates wonderful charities and organizations. Religious persons and institutions are usually the first source of literacy, education, and healthcare in the poorer regions. Religion has been the source of abundant human services from hospitals, orphanages, nursing homes, and schools, to advocacy on behalf of those with no voice, to supporting cultural outreaches, and seeking always to find ways in which to protect and promote human life and its authentic flourishing. Religion gave us the concept of subsidiarity. Religion has done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Religion teaches that actions have consequences. Religion inspires a sense of wonder in nature and the universe. Religion helps us feel connected to one another and to nature. Religion helps us feel less alone in the world. Religion serves to ennoble the human spirit. Religion serves to bind the community together. Religion inspires love, peace and happiness. Religion serves to create traditions. Religion brings order to our lives. Religion brings comfort to the terminally ill. Religion can act as a source of hope for the oppressed. Religion teaches that we can transform ourselves. Christian values were the foundation which Western Civilization was built upon. No other institution played a greater role in shaping Western Civilization than the Catholic Church. Modern science was born in the Catholic Church. Catholic priests developed the idea of free-market. The Catholic Church invented the university. Western law grew out of Church canon law. The Church humanized the West by insisting on the sacredness of all human life. The Church constantly sought to alleviate the evils of slavery and repeatedly denounced the mass enslavement of conquered populations and the infamous slave trade, thereby undermining slavery at its sources. Religion gave us great thinkers, leaders and humanitarians. Religion gave us America. Religion gave us incredible artwork. Religion gave us incredible music. Religion gave us incredible architecture. Christianity has spread democracy. Christians fought other Christians in WWII to end their aggression. Christians rebuilt Europe and Japan after WWII.

These are possible to understand except these three:

Religion teaches accountability and responsibility. Religion teaches that we have a choice in how we behave. Religion teaches that actions have consequences.

These assume a unity between spirit and soul. At death or under torture this unity doesn't exist. A religion should definitely consider the impossibility of this.
Religion is effectively the more in tune teaching the less in tune. It is no different than any other subject that is taught. The relationship between God and man is personal and independent of religion and the teachings of those that are more in tune.
 

BreezeWood

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faith is a goal to be accomplished for it to be a true religion.

evolution is a religion of its own whose destination is little known however the spiritual content can be separate and live independently free from its physiology through purity accomplished by triumph over the regressive self destructive tendency's that in most cases are the true cause of death for who are no longer able to put them to rest.
 

Taz

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Religions of all kinds have one purpose, to save the soul from torture and destruction upon death. Or even during life.

But all religions rely on the knowing of cause and effect, the anticipation of consequences. Such a thing is not part of the soul. That is part of the spirit.

So how can religions aim at saving souls when they demand souls to perform what is not in them? Spirits could perform, but it is not the spirit but the soul that can be lost.

So, are all religions a failed concept categorically?
Religion was invented to explain the unknown, which frightens people, especially simpletons. When the leaders realized that they could control whole populations with it, the game was on!
 

Meriweather

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Religion was invented to explain the unknown, which frightens people, especially simpletons. When the leaders realized that they could control whole populations with it, the game was on!
We may agree partly. Religion came from observing and experiencing events beyond what is physical. Rather than evolving from simpletons, it most likely arose from those who were respected and trusted.

Notice what happened with Covid: People who craved power and notoriety leaped in front of those who were scared, and before we knew it we were all in lock-down and wearing masks. Schools were closed. By "leaders" and by those who could make a book either by squashing small businesses to their own advantage or by investing in masks. Notice Coke running to advertise, "Be less white".

Religion is no less exempt from "leaders" whose only wish to feed themselves on any available flock. We were warned of this...to be as wise as serpents but as harmless as the dove.

As everyone is learning and will have to learn again and again, populations are not that easily controlled. Even those of us who regularly attend community rites and services know that most of our journey is solo or within a small family. We refuse to let self-proclaimed "leaders" get in our way, whether those leaders are in advertising, church, health services, or government. The thing to keep in mind is not to throw good leadership/service out with the self-appointed elites.
 

beautress

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Ding (above)
[/QUOTE]
Lovely and good thoughts on the wonderful portion that religion, ding. You been studying the word well. Thanks for sharing it. I came here to pray about our country returning to its religious roots. Your panacea in word is excellent. Hopefully our nation will commit its focus on the things of our dear Lord and King, as the founders asked God to go with us for the duration. :thup:
 

schmidlap

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Religions of all kinds have one purpose, to save the soul from torture and destruction upon death. Or even during life.

But all religions rely on the knowing of cause and effect, the anticipation of consequences. Such a thing is not part of the soul. That is part of the spirit.

So how can religions aim at saving souls when they demand souls to perform what is not in them? Spirits could perform, but it is not the spirit but the soul that can be lost.

So, are all religions a failed concept categorically?
Humans have always conceived of gods and other etherial creatures that take an inordinate interest in humans for inexplicable reasons. The identities of these immutable deities change over time, and there has been a study shift to consolidation and monopolization of divinity. One enduring characteristics of gods is their coyness, never manifesting themselves in conspicuously perceptible ways.

Most folks no longer believe in most of the gods. Most folks are now borderline atheists.

Religions have served well as imaginative answers to unanswerable questions. For many who feel they need one, they establish a raison d'être and moral code by a poetic approach that many have come to take far too literally. Taking religions literally demeans them by subjecting their poetic essence to inappropriate empirical metrics, antithetical to the realm of the spirit.
 

emilynghiem

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Religions of all kinds have one purpose, to save the soul from torture and destruction upon death. Or even during life.

But all religions rely on the knowing of cause and effect, the anticipation of consequences. Such a thing is not part of the soul. That is part of the spirit.

So how can religions aim at saving souls when they demand souls to perform what is not in them? Spirits could perform, but it is not the spirit but the soul that can be lost.

So, are all religions a failed concept categorically?
Dear anotherlife
I would advise to make three distinctions between:
2. the religion (which is a cultural language for laws)
1. the universal self-existent laws that govern human nature and the world *independent of manmade expression* of these principles and process
and
3. the history, current practice and evolution of how these religions are exercised in real life

I think you are talking about level #3.

And you are questioning the effectiveness of using #2 if it is corrupted so much by #3 that it is hopeless, so why bother.

From the very beginning, of course, since humans are selfishly biased toward ourselves, and we are not infinite, perfect or omniscient to understand all things or treat others equally as ourselves, we can never fully grasp #1 which is infinite eternal and beyond our finite perception and ability to understand and express in limited words.

But the same is true of our limited science vocabulary, or knowledge in medicine that is still sorely lacking or ignored when we know better than to do things that damage our health. Even Math, as objective and neutral as a language can get, is limited and has to evolve and grow to express values and relations in a consistent way to communicate accurately.

All these systems evolve to express greater understanding as humanity develops. We still use systems in #2 (whether religion, science, art or other expressions) to share experiences and gain greater understanding of #1 while we learn and teach from problems with #3 that help us t ok grow and develop as we go.

To appreciate what works in religions, I focus on which teach skills or process of SELF Correction.
Ex:
A. Meditation is a universal process.
But Buddhism focuses on teaching discipline to meditate inward on what is causing conflict suffering and attachment to past emotions INSIDE the mind, so this can be let go in order to think more objectively to solve problems effectively.
This is a combination of
1. A universal process the mind already does to try to understand and fix problems, out of desire for peace and satisfaction and wanting to avoid stress and prevent inconvenience and worse problems
2. The teachings in Buddhism
3. The actual practice and what has become religious tradition and cultural ceremonies around the family community or national culture
Buddhism recognizes human limitations, and provides teaching on inner understanding by self checking to grow to more mature awareness by detaching from issues from the past holding us back instead of learning from them and moving forward.


B. Christianity teaches several levels of prayer to correct oneself first, and healing the mind body and spirit while addressing the same in RELATIONS with neighbors
www.christianhealingmin.org
Because we are not perfect, we make biased decisions that cause conflicts or even injury wrongs or damage to ourselves and others. So Christianity teaches of higher forgiveness and transformation by grace given through Christ Jesus as the central connection between man's conscience will and laws (including #2) and the universal laws (#1) where receiving this spiritual connection brings higher peace as represented by the Holy Spirit. Again, it is because we will experience faults and flaws in our relations, that we need to learn Forgiveness in order to make Corrections that restore and heal relations. Faith in Christ makes the connection between our individual inner process, and the impact on relations with neighbors as well as collective salvation of all humanity by breaking the cycle of karmic bondage from the past.

The Correction process in Christianity is given in Matthew 18:15-20, James 5:16, Matthew 5:44 and other verses where forgiveness is required to be forgiven, and we correct ourselves if we want others to do the same, by the Golden Rule of reaping what we sow.

Again, three levels of the universal laws, the expression of them through religious language and symbols, and the physical practice expression and changes in relationships and historical development and outreach in the real world.

C. Constitutionalism
ta

Takes the belief in equal due process and equal protection of laws to a public level with govt. I don't know anyone who can perfectly assume and treat all people to be equally innocent and deserving of equal protections until proven otherwise. Every human I have ever met will put their beliefs and interests first, as the default position, then add in other people while defending themselves and their current commitments first. That is human nature to prioritize with these biases that will skew our perception of laws and justice toward what we want.

Yet we all want a govt, which is run by flawed biased people, that reflects what we want equally as our neighbors biased toward themselves and their party interests. Is this not a seeming hopeless task to keep using govt when it is inherently flawed and will get biased toward whichever group dominates?

This is by far the hardest most impossible to expect people to really uphold "equal justice under law" and respect and protect equal rights for all citizens.
But the Constitutional system has built in process for "petitioning to redress grievances" using free speech and free press.
Again, these democratic principles and process are universal to all humanity #1.
Our Constitutional laws #2 are limited and were written only to apply to US govt, before "equal protections" were amended to apply to all States (14th Amendment) and later all public institutions receiving federal or tax funding (Civil Rights Act).
Now we face the challenge of expanding these protections to parties, people, corporations or other collective institutions, by voluntary compliance by the Golden Rule of equal respect for others as we want protections for ourselves.
So level 3 the real life practice is an ongoing struggle to achieve the ideal of "equal justice and protections of the law" that Constitutionalists believe and preach.

Does this mean it is hopeless?
Yes and no.
Because we are going to be politically biased and flawed, we will rely on all groups to protect and represent the interests of their members. Then work on collaborating between Religious and Political groups to agree on corrections and public policy.

All religions are limited and we are flawed in practice of any of them


But we can still use Religions as tools to coordinate between people by groups with a common language and cultural community between them.

Not perfect. But like an orchestra with diverse instruments, if we organize by section we can make sure every group plays their part "in harmony" in tune and in timing with everyone else. The music on the page is written to work out. The playing is never 100% perfect, but when we stick to our parts, we can identify and correct errors *by listening and correcting each other*, and make the symphony work.

Not by trying to defeat each other as hopelessly imperfect. But helping each other to achieve common ideals and goals, knowing we are flawed and our systems are not perfect. But respecting each other's commitments, and making the most of the talents and resources we have, for the best interests of both the individuals and collective society for the sake of common humanity.
 
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Iamartiewhitefox

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How is Jamie's 1:26 - 27, KJV, a false consept? The church is false through, and through, leaving many in the dark.
 

emilynghiem

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How is Jamie's 1:26 - 27, KJV, a false consept? The church is false through, and through, leaving many in the dark.
Yes the people are the church body
and human beings are imperfect by our flawed self serving biases we constantly guard against. So collectively in larger groups and society / institutions tribes and nations, this corruption gets magnified and multiplied.
False govt is worse because it is mandated and militarized. False media, hate speech, bullying abuse / harassment, we run into this daily.

Nothing new just human nature.
Bible warns against Antichrist and False Prophet. We as the church or people are all prone to suffer these influences while we make efforts to correct and rise above

Thank you for seeking and reaching out in this final stage of receiving peace and justice by establishing common truth. Agreeing 2 or 3 at a time which also magnifies and multiplies collectively. Good is more powerful and so is the power of forgiveness and grace when it comes to healing and correcting the causes of ill error wrongs falsehood injustice and abuses by either we the people as the church or we the people as the govt or state. Both reflect the stages of humanity on an up and down learning curve and recovery healing process.

More Peace and uplifting Truth to you Iamartiewhitefox BreezeWood GreatestIam Let's all converge and focus on the real truth to be fully received restored and received individually mutually in relations and collectively as a result
 

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