Is NATO Dead?

[MarcATL]

NATO is not dead. US membership in it is dead.

That's the long and short of it.

 

[MarcATL]

Poland is building the largest armored force Europe has seen since the Warsaw pact.

With damn good reason now that America is walking hand-in-hand w/Mother Russia.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Ukraine can end the war quite easily, the key is NATO membership and to a lesser extent internal political forces.

Ukraine does not need US help to end the war but only to continue the war, so it should just come out and say that, that the United States has abandoned its decades old policy of NATO expansion and because of that Ukraine cannot and will not continue to be a pawn in the NATO v Russia geopolitical game.

Why trump feels he has any cards to play is a bit of mystery to me, because he only has a valuable hand if he wants to continue the war yet he keeps saying he wants to end it, well the US has nothing to offer with respect to ending the war so what is the dingbat rambling about?

 

[Scoutster]

Zelensky whipped them both.

No peace, no rare metals deal.

Good for him, get ready for more death of his people. The US needs to pull out of all support to Ukraine today.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Good for him, get ready for more death of his people. The US needs to pull out of all support to Ukraine today.

Wow, you're quick, this is what some of have been saying before trump was even inaugurated, so WTF is keeping him?

 

[Scoutster]

Ukraine can end the war quite easily, the key is NATO membership and to a lesser extent internal political forces.

Ukraine does not need US help to end the war but only to continue the war, so it should just come out and say that, that the United States has abandoned its decades old policy of NATO expansion and because of that Ukraine cannot and will not continue to be a pawn in the NATO v Russia geopolitical game.

Why trump feels he has any cards to play is a bit of mystery to me, because he only has a valuable hand if he wants to continue the war yet he keeps saying he wants to end it, well the US has nothing to offer with respect to ending the war so what is the dingbat rambling about?

We have a lot to offer in ending the war, it’s called pulling our fucking support. Let’s see how Zelensky does then! You are a fucking dumbass.

 

[martybegan]

Europe moves on, as it should.

America alone.

Europe likes to talk, and can spend money and send equipment, but they won't put their lives on the line.

That's the only thing that will restore Ukraine to its 2014 borders, maybe.

 

[martybegan]

Correction: NATO was created to oppose the Warsaw Pact, not Russia.

The Warsaw pact was Russia you dullard.

Just like the Soviet Union was dominated by Russia, The Warsaw Pact was run by the Soviet Union.

 

[Kondor3]

The Zelenski meeting with President Trump served to clarify several issues:
1. The US is not committed to a war with Russia over Ukraine.
2. The US would like to see a peaceful settlement, but that is up to Zelenski.
3. If Zelenski refuses a peaceful settlement, the US will withdraw its military aid to Ukraine.
4. Ukraine is not a member of NATO and is not a subject of NATO's mutual defense provisions.
5. If other NATO members wish to fight in Ukraine, they do so at their own peril.

This raises the question of whether the efficacy of NATO, which was originally intended to provide mutual (i.e., US) defense against an attack by Russia on member countries. If some of these countries now want to attack Russia, they have contravened NATO's original purpose and turned it into a pretentious European debate club.

If there is any consensus about European policy towards Ukraine and Russia, it should be formulated and applied by the European Union, not NATO. That being said, what purpose does NATO serve, other than bureaucratic entanglement in the foreign affairs of other countries?

No, I do not believe that NATO is dead.

The Grand Alliance still holds and it is likely to hold for years (or even decades) too come.

We are not happy with the Europeans because they are not doing enough for their own defense or regarding weapons to Ukraine.

The EU is not happy with the US because we are holding their feet to the fire to do more and to reclaim their lethality.

It will get sorted out quickly enough as history measures time, I expect.

 

[whitehall]

With damn good reason now that America is walking hand-in-hand w/Mother Russia.

Poland can't build a car that anyone wants but NATO fans trust Polish tanks?

 

[Scoutster]

Europe likes to talk, and can spend money and send equipment, but they won't put their lives on the line.

That's the only thing that will restore Ukraine to its 2014 borders, maybe.

They don’t have a lot of money to spend in the grand scheme and as soon as they do, and they have to realize they’re gonna have to cut their social spending to their people. Their people will be rioting in the streets for getting less of their freebies.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

We have a lot to offer in ending the war, it’s called pulling our fucking support.

Pulling support is not "offering" anything to Zelensky, maintaining support can be offered but not withdrawing it.

Let’s see how Zelensky does then! You are a fucking dumbass.

Zelensky has a problem, no doubt, but all trump can actually offer is military support, well how can trump offer that (as Biden did) without being confrontational with Putin? he cannot, so trump is the one who is also stuck.

He pretends he can make a "deal" but he can only do that IF he chooses to provide military support and confront Russia but he doesn't want to, we know he doesn't so he has no hand to play.

Zelensky wants US miliary aid and trump doesn't want to give any, the sooner Zelensky accepts that reality the better, he can then just disregard the US an impotent player.

Did you get all that dumbass or am I going too fast for you?

 

[Concerned American]

Pulling support is not "offering" anything to Zelensky, maintaining support can be offered but not withdrawing it.

Zelensky has a problem, no doubt, but all trump can actually offer is military support, well how can trump offer that (as Biden did) without being confrontational with Putin? he cannot, so trump is the one who is also stuck.

He pretends he can make a "deal" but he can only do that IF he choose to provide military support and confront Russia but he doesn't want to, we know he doesn't so he has no hand to play.

Zelensky wants US miliary aid and trump doesn't want to give any, the sooner Zelensky accepts that reality the better, he can then just disregard the US an impotent player.

Did you get all that dumbass or am I going too fast for you?

There is a big difference between providing FREE SUPPORT in return for laundered kick backs and SELLING military materiel in exchange for Ukrainian minerals. Glad I could clear that up for you.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Good for him, get ready for more death of his people. The US needs to pull out of all support to Ukraine today.

The USSR should have just given up in 1941.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

There is a big difference between providing FREE SUPPORT in return for laundered kick backs and SELLING military materiel in exchange for Ukrainian minerals. Glad I could clear that up for you.

What do you mean "free"? US military aid has never been free, it is supplied on the basis that Ukraine will violently resist Russia and enable the US to establish a military presence - as NATO - in Ukraine.

So the US has been feeding it's proxy (Ukraine) in return for Ukraine doing the fighting, with the ultimate US objective being a NATO presence in Ukraine.

trump does not want to provide any military support at all, that's the sticking point, read the news. If trump did he'd be at war with Russia and he has said he does not want that.

 

[kyzr]

China just watched the US abandon its military partner on live tv.

So what? Next time our "partner" needs to be smarter, like Taiwan.

China's rival eyes $10 billion US arms deal

Taiwan is waiting for an estimated $21 billion in backlogged U.S. weapons—much of it ordered during Trump's first term.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Zincwarrior]

Pulling support is not "offering" anything to Zelensky, maintaining support can be offered but not withdrawing it.

Zelensky has a problem, no doubt, but all trump can actually offer is military support, well how can trump offer that (as Biden did) without being confrontational with Putin? he cannot, so trump is the one who is also stuck.

He pretends he can make a "deal" but he can only do that IF he chooses to provide military support and confront Russia but he doesn't want to, we know he doesn't so he has no hand to play.

Zelensky wants US miliary aid and trump doesn't want to give any, the sooner Zelensky accepts that reality the better, he can then just disregard the US an impotent player.

Did you get all that dumbass or am I going too fast for you?

The other side of that, combine this snit and his multiple going back on agreements with Mexico and Canada means he is not going to be trusted internationally, including in all these tariff wars. They are all going to do the same as China and impose counter tariffs.

 

[kyzr]

NATO is not dead. US membership in it is dead.

The US is meeting all commitments, unlike many NATO deadbeats.

 

[Zincwarrior]

So what? Next time our "partner" needs to be smarter, like Taiwan.

China's rival eyes $10 billion US arms deal

Taiwan is waiting for an estimated $21 billion in backlogged U.S. weapons—much of it ordered during Trump's first term.

www.newsweek.com

China now sees a green light to attack Taiwan.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The US is meeting all commitments, unlike many NATO deadbeats.

Like in Real Estate, he has now burned all his bridges and no state is going to trust his word or agreements.