Is it Possible for Israel and Palestine to Peacefully Coexist?

[Rigby5]

Wait are you arguing that the people of Gaza havebeen “starving to death” prior to the current war? Source?

Taking civilians hostages is never permissible, legal, or moral. This should not have to be said.

Of course.
Israel cut off all international trade with Palestine, and was deliberately trying to starve them to death.

From the NY Times:
{...

Gaza Has Suffered Under 16-Year Blockade​

Held in place by Israel and Egypt, the blockade restricts imports to the region and prevents most people from leaving.

• Oct. 7, 2023

For some Gazans, Saturday morning’s surprise Palestinian attack into southern Israel seemed a justified response to a 16-year Israeli blockade. Others worried that the coordinated attack would only add to Gaza’s misery as the tiny enclave braced for a large-scale response from Israel.
The Palestinian territory of Gaza has been under a suffocating Israeli blockade, backed by Egypt, since Hamas seized control of the coastal strip in 2007. The blockade restricts the import of goods, including electronic and computer equipment, that could be used to make weapons and prevents most people from leaving the territory.
More than two million Palestinians live in Gaza. The tiny, crowded coastal enclave has a nearly 50 percent unemployment rate, and Gaza’s living conditions, health system and infrastructure have all deteriorated under the blockade.
Israel says the blockade is necessary to stop the flow of arms into the territory, but Palestinians and aid groups say it is collective punishment and exacerbates dire economic and social conditions.

Diplomats say that Hamas had repeatedly indicated in recent months that it did not want a major military escalation in Gaza, in part to avoid worsening the humanitarian situation so soon after the devastation of a war in 2021.

The Gazan authorities are still repairing buildings damaged or destroyed by Israeli airstrikes during previous rounds of fighting, including five days of war in May between Israel’s military and Islamic Jihad, the second-largest armed group in Gaza. And some Gazans are worried about losing access to Israeli work permits, a major lifeline for the enclave’s limping economy.

Gaza’s hospitals regularly suffer from equipment and medicine shortages because of the blockade, and Palestinians in Gaza must apply for permits to leave the enclave to seek treatment either in the West Bank or inside Israel.

In the past, Gaza’s sole power plant has at times been forced to shut down for lack of fuel when Israel has closed the border crossings for goods.

Civilians, especially children, in Gaza have paid a high price. In 2021, at least 67 children were killed in Gaza during 11 days of fighting between Israel and Hamas. In May, at least 12 civilians were killed by Israeli strikes during the fighting in May this year.
...}

There are NO innocent civilians in Israel.
They not only all serve in the military, but they all illegally occupy homes they know they never paid for and were stolen from Palestinian natives.
Every single Israel is a criminal who is illegal and knowingly in possession of stolen goods.

I know because being Jewish, Israel many times has offered me free homes.

 

[Rigby5]

Coyote

Not going to agree with Rigby5, but noting that I suspect there is not quite the equivalence between the Ukrainian children and the Israeli hostages as you imply. I am SO not an expert on that other conflict. But I am investigating.

The equivalence is that both Russia and Hamas are the good guys, and it is Zelensky and Netanyahu who are the criminals trying to commit genocide on the natives.
The natives in the Ukraine are ethnic Russian, and the native in Palestine are Arab Moslems or Christians.

 

[Rigby5]

Lol. The only "dictatorship" in the world which has had 326 elections in the past 3 years.

Wrong.
The Jewish Israelis are 6 million illegal immigrants, while there are 13 million natives, of whom 12 million are not allowed to vote at all.

 

[Shusha]

Of course.
Israel cut off all international trade with Palestine, and was deliberately trying to starve them to death.

From the NY Times:
{...

Gaza Has Suffered Under 16-Year Blockade​

Held in place by Israel and Egypt, the blockade restricts imports to the region and prevents most people from leaving.

• Oct. 7, 2023

For some Gazans, Saturday morning’s surprise Palestinian attack into southern Israel seemed a justified response to a 16-year Israeli blockade. Others worried that the coordinated attack would only add to Gaza’s misery as the tiny enclave braced for a large-scale response from Israel.
The Palestinian territory of Gaza has been under a suffocating Israeli blockade, backed by Egypt, since Hamas seized control of the coastal strip in 2007. The blockade restricts the import of goods, including electronic and computer equipment, that could be used to make weapons and prevents most people from leaving the territory.
More than two million Palestinians live in Gaza. The tiny, crowded coastal enclave has a nearly 50 percent unemployment rate, and Gaza’s living conditions, health system and infrastructure have all deteriorated under the blockade.
Israel says the blockade is necessary to stop the flow of arms into the territory, but Palestinians and aid groups say it is collective punishment and exacerbates dire economic and social conditions.

Diplomats say that Hamas had repeatedly indicated in recent months that it did not want a major military escalation in Gaza, in part to avoid worsening the humanitarian situation so soon after the devastation of a war in 2021.

The Gazan authorities are still repairing buildings damaged or destroyed by Israeli airstrikes during previous rounds of fighting, including five days of war in May between Israel’s military and Islamic Jihad, the second-largest armed group in Gaza. And some Gazans are worried about losing access to Israeli work permits, a major lifeline for the enclave’s limping economy.

Gaza’s hospitals regularly suffer from equipment and medicine shortages because of the blockade, and Palestinians in Gaza must apply for permits to leave the enclave to seek treatment either in the West Bank or inside Israel.

In the past, Gaza’s sole power plant has at times been forced to shut down for lack of fuel when Israel has closed the border crossings for goods.

Civilians, especially children, in Gaza have paid a high price. In 2021, at least 67 children were killed in Gaza during 11 days of fighting between Israel and Hamas. In May, at least 12 civilians were killed by Israeli strikes during the fighting in May this year.
...}

There are NO innocent civilians in Israel.
They not only all serve in the military, but they all illegally occupy homes they know they never paid for and were stolen from Palestinian natives.
Every single Israel is a criminal who is illegal and knowingly in possession of stolen goods.

I know because being Jewish, Israel many times has offered me free homes.

So by “starving to death” you mean no actual people starved to death.

Got it.

 

[Coyote]

Coyote

Not going to agree with Rigby5, but noting that I suspect there is not quite the equivalence between the Ukrainian children and the Israeli hostages as you imply. I am SO not an expert on that other conflict. But I am investigating.

Another example I can think of as well are the kidnappings in Nigeria.

Of course.
Israel cut off all international trade with Palestine, and was deliberately trying to starve them to death.

From the NY Times:
{...

Gaza Has Suffered Under 16-Year Blockade​

Held in place by Israel and Egypt, the blockade restricts imports to the region and prevents most people from leaving.

• Oct. 7, 2023

For some Gazans, Saturday morning’s surprise Palestinian attack into southern Israel seemed a justified response to a 16-year Israeli blockade. Others worried that the coordinated attack would only add to Gaza’s misery as the tiny enclave braced for a large-scale response from Israel.
The Palestinian territory of Gaza has been under a suffocating Israeli blockade, backed by Egypt, since Hamas seized control of the coastal strip in 2007. The blockade restricts the import of goods, including electronic and computer equipment, that could be used to make weapons and prevents most people from leaving the territory.
More than two million Palestinians live in Gaza. The tiny, crowded coastal enclave has a nearly 50 percent unemployment rate, and Gaza’s living conditions, health system and infrastructure have all deteriorated under the blockade.
Israel says the blockade is necessary to stop the flow of arms into the territory, but Palestinians and aid groups say it is collective punishment and exacerbates dire economic and social conditions.

Diplomats say that Hamas had repeatedly indicated in recent months that it did not want a major military escalation in Gaza, in part to avoid worsening the humanitarian situation so soon after the devastation of a war in 2021.

The Gazan authorities are still repairing buildings damaged or destroyed by Israeli airstrikes during previous rounds of fighting, including five days of war in May between Israel’s military and Islamic Jihad, the second-largest armed group in Gaza. And some Gazans are worried about losing access to Israeli work permits, a major lifeline for the enclave’s limping economy.

Gaza’s hospitals regularly suffer from equipment and medicine shortages because of the blockade, and Palestinians in Gaza must apply for permits to leave the enclave to seek treatment either in the West Bank or inside Israel.

In the past, Gaza’s sole power plant has at times been forced to shut down for lack of fuel when Israel has closed the border crossings for goods.

Civilians, especially children, in Gaza have paid a high price. In 2021, at least 67 children were killed in Gaza during 11 days of fighting between Israel and Hamas. In May, at least 12 civilians were killed by Israeli strikes during the fighting in May this year.
...}

There are NO innocent civilians in Israel.
They not only all serve in the military, but they all illegally occupy homes they know they never paid for and were stolen from Palestinian natives.
Every single Israel is a criminal who is illegal and knowingly in possession of stolen goods.

I know because being Jewish, Israel many times has offered me free homes.

No matter how bad the blockade was (and it was certainly nothing like to say the Seige of zLeningrad) you can never justify the taking and murder of innocent people.

And to say there are no innocent Israeli civilians is as abhorrent as to say there are no innocent Gaza civilians. It’s simply wrong and an excuse that has been to justify some of the world’s worst atrocities.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

{...
After the end of World War I, Palestinian Muslim and Christian associations met in Jerusalem at the beginning of 1919. This ‘First Arab Palestinian Congress’ demanded independence for Palestine in a ‘national charter’, and rejected the Balfour Declaration as well as British rule over Palestine.

A majority sought the incorporation of Palestine into an independent Syrian state. As a consequence, the delegates also denounced French claims to a mandate over Syria. The congress referred to the former American president Woodrow Wilson’s principles of the right of self-determination of subject peoples.

The following year, delegates from Palestine attended a Syrian congress in Damascus in March, where independence was proclaimed and Emir Faysal, son of Husayn ibn Ali, the Sharif of Mecca, was elected king of a united Syrian-Palestine nation. However, a month later at the Peace Conference of San Remo in Italy, the Allies divided the former territories of the defeated Ottoman Empire. Syria and Lebanon were mandated to France, Palestine to Great Britain. By July, the French had forced Faysal to give up his claims to the throne of a united Syria and Palestine.

The Arab Palestinian Congress met again in Haifa in December 1920. This time the delegates elected an executive committee, the Arab Executive, led by Musa Kazim al-Husayni, a member of a leading Jerusalem family (see also Escalation and revolt in Occupied Palestinian Territories).
...}
Historic Palestine: The Arab Executive (1920 -1934)

It is well known public knowledge that the Palestinians were owed independence from the Ottoman Empire, in return for helping Lawrence of Arabia.
So you know full well there not only was no Israel at all when Palestine was formally created, but that there were hardly any Jews living anywhere in Palestine at that time.
That is because REAL Jews were observing the Rabbinical Diaspora Decree of 160 AD, and were dutifully atoning for the sins of arrogance and pride, waiting for the coming of the Messiah.

You also must know full well that the Ottoman Empire and the British kept the Palestinians unarmed, while the illegal immigrant, European Zionists, were given the latest US weapons by Truman, including tanks and bombers.
The British were supposed to defend the Palestinians, but they were unaware that Menachim Begin had planted bombs in the kitchen of the King David Hotel and they were all murdered.
In fact, Menachim Begin also personally gunned down Folke Bernadotte, the UN moderator.
That was all so his gangs like Stern, Irgun, and Lehi, could start massacring hundred of native villages like Deir Yassin.

Sounds like a bunch of swell guys.
Why did they fuck it all up and end with nothing?

It is well known public knowledge that the Palestinians were owed independence from the Ottoman Empire, in return for helping Lawrence of Arabia.

They got Jordan. They could have had almost half the rest, but they pouted and stomped their feet and how'd that work for them?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Wrong.
The Jewish Israelis are 6 million illegal immigrants, while there are 13 million natives, of whom 12 million are not allowed to vote at all.

Native Arabs? DURR

They need to move back to Arabia.

 

[Shusha]

Coyote

While I had some basic idea of the Ukrainian children, I didn’t have much to go on. Again not by any means an expert on that conflict. But even a short cursory look clearly demonstrates that this is not equivalent to walking g across an international border and just taking people and holding them hostage. So nope.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Nah, Russia acted defensively since the Ukraine had violated treaties and was trying to put NATO nukes Russia's border.

The difference with Gaza is that Israel had illegally blockaded the Palestinians and was starving them to death.
So Hamas was totally defensive in their capture of hostages to trade for Palestinian hostages Israel had illegally held for over a decade.

LIAR

They violated no treaties and no one has tried to put nukes in Ukraine

 

[gipper]

Dude. Read my sig. You know I am a Zionist. Do you know what the word means?

Here's the thing - define "worse".

That’s exactly like admitting one is a Nazi, but you’ll never understand.

 

[gipper]

Haven't read the whole thing yet but curious about your thoughts on this:

What happened on October 7 is that the State of Gaza went to war against the State of Israel. State against state. Now, the state of Gaza does have vulnerabilities. It doesn’t have sufficient fuel, food and water of its own. You can impose a legitimate boycott on that state until the state returns all of your hostages. Humanitarian for humanitarian.

Dumb as always. There is no state of Gaza. It was an occupied oppressed area controlled by the Zionist apartheid state of Israel.

Israel has one of the most advanced and powerful militaries. What does Gaza have?

Gazans have been oppressed for decades. On 10/7 a few Gazan men attacked their oppressors. For this you Nazi Zionists want to mass murder defenseless women and children and destroy all of Gaza.

 

[Ringo]

Everyone knows that Jews divide all people into Jews and non-Jews (goyim).
I personally understand this ancient folk tradition.
I just don't understand why, when goyim start dividing people into goyim and non-goyim, it is called anti-Semitism?

 

[Lisa558]

Yes, I think so. And I’ll put it this way.

There is a time and need for a military campaign but when that has gone as far as it can towards achieving their goals then the priorities need to be adjusted. At some point (in my opinion) the lives of the remaining hostages need to become more important than the goal of completely eradicating Hamas, which might not even be possible.

But who says the military campaign has gone as far as can toward achieving its goal? Israel’s goal is to eradicate HAMAS.

 

[Lisa558]

Oh? I made my case. Read it.

No, you have not made your case. The situation with Ukraine is a perfect example of the double standard applied when Jews are involved.

Why is there no crying - or even mention - of all the innocent Russians that Ukraine has murdered? Why is there no claim that Ukraine is committing a “genocide” of Russians? Why is the Left undivided in their support to send $60 billion to help Ukraine in the war, but undivided in their support to send $18 billion to Israel?

If you don’t think antisemitism has something to do with these double standards, think again.

Look at Rigby. He calls Isrsel the terrorists and defends HAMAS’ barbaric massacre. You don’t think antisemitism underlies that? You don’t think the hostility toward Israel has anything to do with Jews? Then answer me this: why are Jewish kids being assaulted, bullied, and threatened on college campuses?

 

[Lisa558]

Everyone knows that Jews divide all people into Jews and non-Jews (goyim).
I personally understand this ancient folk tradition.
I just don't understand why, when goyim start dividing people into goyim and non-goyim, it is called anti-Semitism?

Coyote

And the above is another example of the antisemitism that underlies the response to the war. Just look at how the antisemite above ^^^ comes into a thread about Israel, with her “goyim” talk.

 

[gipper]

No, you have not made your case. The situation with Ukraine is a perfect example of the double standard applied when Jews are involved.

Why is there no crying - or even mention - of all the innocent Russians that Ukraine has murdered? Why is there no claim that Ukraine is committing a “genocide” of Russians? Why is the Left undivided in their support to send $60 billion to help Ukraine in the war, but undivided in their support to send $18 billion to Israel?

If you don’t think antisemitism has something to do with these double standards, think again.

Look at Rigby. He calls Isrsel the terrorists and defends HAMAS’ barbaric massacre. You don’t think antisemitism underlies that? You don’t think the hostility toward Israel has anything to do with Jews? Then answer me this: why are Jewish kids being assaulted, bullied, and threatened on college campuses?

You cry antisemitism while demanding the genocide of Palestinians continues unabated.

Psycho!

 

[ESay]

Why is there no crying - or even mention - of all the innocent Russians that Ukraine has murdered? Why is there no claim that Ukraine is committing a “genocide” of Russians?

Maybe the obvious answer is the numbers. The war in Gaza, as assumed, has a too high death toll among the civilians (at least if compared with the Ukraine war). Besides, Ukraine wages a war mostly on its territory (exceptions being rocket and drone strikes on Russian territory proper, and a tiny patch of land in the Kursk region).

 

[gipper]

Maybe the obvious answer is the numbers. The war in Gaza, as assumed, has a too high death toll among the civilians (at least if compared with the Ukraine war). Besides, Ukraine wages a war mostly on its territory (exceptions being rocket and drone strikes on Russian territory proper, and a tiny patch of land in the Kursk region).

Zionist Lisa doesn’t consider Palestinians human beings.

If Russia had massacred civilians like Israel, the US government would likely nuke them.

And besides, what Israel is doing in Gaza is incomparable. More women and children killed in Gaza by Israeli military than any other recent conflict in a single year – Oxfam | Oxfam International

 

[Deadstick]

LIAR

They violated no treaties and no one has tried to put nukes in Ukraine

They didn't get chance to put nukes on Russia's border and they broke Minsk.

 

[Deadstick]

Zionist Lisa doesn’t consider Palestinians human being.

If Russia had massacred civilians like Israel, the US government would likely nuke them.

And besides, what Israel is doing in Gaza is incomparable. More women and children killed in Gaza by Israeli military than any other recent conflict in a single year – Oxfam | Oxfam International

That's where we are at, Arabs are untermench to the Zionists and don't deserve to live, how low these creatures have sunk into depravity.