Is it Possible for Israel and Palestine to Peacefully Coexist?

[Toddsterpatriot]

In other words, the Palestinian refugees can cause social and political disturbances in the host nations, yes.

But that wasn't the sole reason of Egypt closing their border with Gaza. The Palestinian state is an idea that intertwined with Arab minds and their view of the Middle East picture. They can't afford to give up on it. De-Arabization of Gaza (not entirely, but even in a way when the Arab population will be a clear minority there) will be a significant blow to these sentiments.

In the past, they tried to overthrow their host government.
Overstayed their welcome.

 

[ESay]

Are the Russian soldiers fighting the Ukrainians military-to-military, or are they in homes, hospitals, mosques, schools, and tunnels?

The both sides use abandoned homes, schools and hospitals for their needs. Sometimes not abandoned too.

 

[Shusha]

Yes, I think so. And I’ll put it this way.

There is a time and need for a military campaign but when that has gone as far as it can towards achieving their goals then the priorities need to be adjusted. At some point (in my opinion) the lives of the remaining hostages need to become more important than the goal of completely eradicating Hamas, which might not even be possible.

Yes. This is where we are disagreeing. You believe that the military objectives of dismantling Hamas and destroying its military infrastructure are not possible to be achieved, but that the return of the hostages can be. I, on the other hand, believe that the return of the hostages can not be achieved while the other two objectives can be.

 

[ESay]

In the past, they tried to overthrow their host government.
Overstayed their welcome.

Okay, above I virtually admitted that. But that is not only about domestic policies, it is also about the whole map of the Middle East and justice (or as they perceive it). Rephrasing my previous post, for the Arabs 'giving' the Palestinian state to Israel is the same that for the Americans giving one of their states to Mexico. An impossible idea.

 

[Shusha]

The both sides use abandoned homes, schools and hospitals for their needs. Sometimes not abandoned too.

So, mostly soldier vs soldier, yes? Civilians not usually part of the equation. That would account for a lower civilian casualty count, yes?

 

[sparky]

Yes, I think we (Western "we") do not correctly understand ME culture which is relevant. Things like family and tribal affiliations, religious undercurrents, honor codes and values.

All 'we' need know is they are self righteous theocracies with 'gods' that dictate they're better than anyone else Shusha

~S~

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Okay, above I virtually admitted that. But that is not only about domestic policies, it is also about the whole map of the Middle East and justice (or as they perceive it). Rephrasing my previous post, for the Arabs 'giving' the Palestinian state to Israel is the same that for the Americans giving one of their states to Mexico. An impossible idea.

What "Palestinian" state?

 

[ESay]

So, mostly soldier vs soldier, yes? Civilians not usually part of the equation. That would account for a lower civilian casualty count, yes?

Mostly, yes. Yes. And I understand where you lead to. The tactic of human shields and not letting civilians out of the war zone is disgraceful and dirty one. But I also can't say whether the amount of force employed by Israel is justifiable by military reasons.

 

[ESay]

What "Palestinian" state?

The one that occupied by Israel, in their view.

 

[Shusha]

The one that occupied by Israel, in their view.

The latest creeping vine of (cough) "international law" is that the State of Palestine was created in 1948 and that the entire territory (river to sea) is "Palestine" and that Israel stole it. When Arabs speak of "Palestine" they mean all of it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The one that occupied by Israel, in their view.

An imaginary one.

 

[Deadstick]

In other words, the Palestinian refugees can cause social and political disturbances in the host nations, yes.

But that wasn't the sole reason of Egypt closing their border with Gaza. The Palestinian state is an idea that intertwined with Arab minds and their view of the Middle East picture. They can't afford to give up on it. De-Arabization of Gaza (not entirely, but even in a way when the Arab population will be a clear minority there) will be a significant blow to these sentiments.

Why would Egypt take part in the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, what Egypt should have done once the Genocide started was send their army into Gaza but they like most Arab Countries are gutless, as for the Genocide only people who consider themselves to be a master race or the Chosen ones are capable of that.

 

[ESay]

The latest creeping vine of (cough) "international law" is that the State of Palestine was created in 1948 and that the entire territory (river to sea) is "Palestine" and that Israel stole it. When Arabs speak of "Palestine" they mean all of it.

Yes, from the river to the sea. They rejected the partition in the 1940s, that did it again in the 1990s, and I see no reason why they would change their mind somewhere in the future.

 

[gipper]

You realize that was a quote from the link Coyote posted, yes? Try to keep up.

You might want to also think about this: If there is no state of Gaza in the territory, and if Israel has no legal claim to the territory, and if Egypt renounced claim to it - whose territory is it?

Also, again you can try to put words in my mouth, but you are fooling no one.

It’s obviously Israel’s territory, at least in the minds of murderous Zionists like you.

 

[Shusha]

It’s obviously Israel’s territory, at least in the minds of murderous Zionists like you.

IF not Israel's, then whose? It can definitely be argued that Israel renounced all legal claim to Gaza in 2005. So, when a group of people demand self-determination and the sovereign says, "sure, here ya go!", does not sovereignty pass to the newly elected government by that self-determining people?

 

[gipper]

IF not Israel's, then whose? It can definitely be argued that Israel renounced all legal claim to Gaza in 2005. So, when a group of people demand self-determination and the sovereign says, "sure, here ya go!", does not sovereignty pass to the newly elected government by that self-determining people?

I’m certain this makes you happy.

 

[Shusha]

I’m certain this makes you happy.

Lol. Not able to have a discussion, huh? Just have to keep imagining things about me.

Is that the doctor who turned out to have been lying about being in Gaza?

 

[toomuchtime_]

How can anyone ever get a solid understanding of our solar system using the geocentric model??

Even if Ptolemy and all the ancient and medieval astronomers had lived for 2000 years they would still fail at explaining the workings of our tiny corner of the galaxy BECAUSE THEY WOULD STILL BE STARTING FROM THE WRONG ASSUMPTIONS.

When your starting point is a set of wrong postulates most of your conclusions are bound to be wrong as well.

All my zionist wives and little babies of the US Message Board commit the same error as Ptolemy.

They use the wrong model to analyze this conflict.

They view the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as two countries (or 1 country and a would-be state) disputing territory when in reality it is a textbook example of an ethnocratic conflict between settlers and natives.

And just like the greek astronomer 95% of their statements and conclusions will be wrong, trash, absolute garbage due to their false premise.

Such nonsense. It is a conflict between Muslims and everyone who is not a Muslim. When the early Muslims streamed out of Arabia designating everyone else as second class citizens and demanding everyone else change their language, religion calendars, etc. to what was normal in Arabia, that was a true ethnocratic conflict between natives and settlers, but when the Zionists returned to Palestine, they made no demands on the people already there. The source of the conflict was never anything other than the Muslims' continuing demand that everyone else accept being second class citizens.

From the 7th century on, a core belief of Islan is that everyone else in the world is inferior to Muslims and it in embedded in Muslim culture, Muslim las and Muslim religion.

 

[gipper]

Lol. Not able to have a discussion, huh? Just have to keep imagining things about me.

Is that the doctor who turned out to have been lying about being in Gaza?

Sorry but why would I discuss anything with a fucking Nazi Zionist?

 

[Shusha]

Sorry but why would I discuss anything with a fucking Nazi Zionist?

You are already discussing things with your imagination of me, why don't you try discussing things with actual me? Otherwise, aren't you just talking to yourself?