Is it ever ok to have an Abortion?

Tipsycatlover

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Only if the mother's life is in danger or rape
Abortion To save the life of the mother is just about never necessary. Almost all dangerous pregnancies can be resolved by cesarean section.
 

Billyboom

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Hey Bob, I never saw a response on this post. I’m actually very curious to know your thoughts... here I’ll paste my statement/question...
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I commend you on your convictions and think you take the most logical and easy to follow stance on your side of the issue... it’s very black and white. However it does come off like you lack understanding or respect of other people’s perspectives. For example the question about when life begins... What is life? What determines the value of life?
I don't see why the question even needs to be asked. The answer is obvious.

There are only two events in the entire human life cycle, where something comes into existence, that didn't exist a moment before.

One of these events is meiosis, the process by which gametes (sperm and egg cells) are produced. The parent's DNA are copied, divided up, and shuffled, in a process by which one diploid cell bearing the parent's complete DNA is split up into four haploid cells, each containing only half of the parent's DNA.

The other event is syngamy, or conception, in which two of these haploid gametes join to form a new, genetically-unique, diploid organism. This is the beginning of a new human being. At this point, a living organism now exists, that did not exist a moment before. From this point, until the end of its life, it will never again undergo so abrupt a transformation from one thing into another. From here, it's just a slow process of cell division, growth, differentiation, development, and aging, by which it will slowly change and develop over the next seventy, eighty, or ninety years or so.

if I asked you what makes your life more value able than that of a cow... what would your answer be?
I did answer that. You might not like my answer, but my answer is there,and I stand by it.
I understand how reproduction works but that wasn’t my question...

Im asking about what determines the value of “Life” and why a human life is more valuable than a cows life?
Only how you personally feel. To me a human life is not necessarily more valuable than a cow's life. If I was making the choice between a random human life and the life of a beloved animal you would be looking at a dead human.
Not enough black babies are being aborted.
 

Bob Blaylock

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You poor thing. It is a growth that is a collection of human cells. But nothing will ever cause this collection of cells to live. Not even in a deformed condition. There is no either or. No decision as to who would live.
Again, from a scientific point of view, you're just plain wrong.
 

Tipsycatlover

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You poor thing. It is a growth that is a collection of human cells. But nothing will ever cause this collection of cells to live. Not even in a deformed condition. There is no either or. No decision as to who would live.
Again, from a scientific point of view, you're just plain wrong.
No I'm not but you are. Removing an ectopic pregnancy is a surgical procedure. Not an abortion.
 

Bob Blaylock

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Only if the mother's life is in danger or rape
I absolutely disagree with rape as an excuse. It is not anywhere close to justifiable to put an innocent person to death, for a crime in which he had no willing part.

Put the fragment of solid digestive waste to death, who committed the rape to death, and I'm OK with that. But never, never never never an innocent child. I cannot grasp the degree of sociopathy and evil that it takes to support such a position.
 

Dragonlady

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It has everything to do with an individual's rights to freedom of religion and physical sovereignty.
Even atheistic or sectarian societies recognize that homicide is wrong, and that except under extreme and drastic circumstances, is not something to be tolerated. It has nothing to do with religion.

You can't govern another person's body with your sectarian beliefs. This is absolutely unacceptable.
The defense of human life is not a religious or sectarian issue. It's an issue of basic decency and ethics.

Killing human beings, in the absence of extreme circumstances which make it necessary and justified, is wrong, and allsocieties are obligated to prohibit it,and to protect the lives of anyone who would be so victimized.

This is not Iran. Your assertion that abortion is murder is flat-out absurd.
Again, repeating the same lie over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over 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and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again will not imbue it with even the faintest vestige of truth.

Abortion is the intentional killing of an innocent human being, and absent the extreme circumstances necessary to justify such a killing, it is murder.

The only thing that you accomplish by repeating the lie that it is not murder is to demonstrate what an evil, lying, murderous, soulless subhuman piece of shit you truly are.
The only thing you accomplished by repeated your lie over and over again was to drive home the point that you wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and slapped you in the face.

An ectopic pregnancy doesn't have a "nearly zero" chance of survival, it has NO chance of survival. And it has a very high chance of killing the mother when the fallopian tube ruptures. You have about 10 minutes to stop the bleeding and save the mother when the tube ruptures. The tube will rupture when the zygot grows too large to contain it. And there is no surgery in which the zygot is removed from the fallopian tube and implanted in the uterus. It does not exist.
 

Tipsycatlover

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Only if the mother's life is in danger or rape
I absolutely disagree with rape as an excuse. It is not anywhere close to justifiable to put an innocent person to death, for a crime in which he had no willing part.

Put the fragment of solid digestive waste to death, who committed the rape to death, and I'm OK with that. But never, never never never an innocent child. I cannot grasp the degree of sociopathy and evil that it takes to support such a position.
It is an act of unutterable cruelty to force a woman to carry and bear a child of rape. It is an act of unutterable cruelty to take that child's life. Perhaps the rapist should be charged with murder and executed just for setting into motion the need to make such a choice.

I have known women that made both decisions, some had abortions, some did not. The most extreme ended up horribly. The woman elected to keep the baby. The child committed suicide at 17. The mother never recovered from the rape and died of complications of acute alcoholism in her 50s.
 
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Slade3200

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Well. In an ectopic pregnancy it is just a growth. It will never be a baby. It will never be the size of a kidney bean. It isn't alive in any real sense of the word.
From a scientific standpoint, you're just plain wrong.

Even at that point, in that circumstance, it meets every accepted scientific definition of a living organism, and its DNA tells us, without question, what kind of organism it is, viz., a member of the species Homo sapiens, in other words a human being. Denying this puts you in the same category of nutcasery as those who believe that Bruce Jenner is a woman.
You poor thing. It is a growth that is a collection of human cells. But nothing will ever cause this collection of cells to live. Not even in a deformed condition. There is no either or. No decision as to who would live.
At what point do you consider the cells living?
 
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Slade3200

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You poor thing. It is a growth that is a collection of human cells. But nothing will ever cause this collection of cells to live. Not even in a deformed condition. There is no either or. No decision as to who would live.
Again, from a scientific point of view, you're just plain wrong.
No I'm not but you are. Removing an ectopic pregnancy is a surgical procedure. Not an abortion.
It’s a surgical abortion procedure. You don’t know what you’re talking about as usual crazy cat lady
 

Tipsycatlover

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Well. In an ectopic pregnancy it is just a growth. It will never be a baby. It will never be the size of a kidney bean. It isn't alive in any real sense of the word.
From a scientific standpoint, you're just plain wrong.

Even at that point, in that circumstance, it meets every accepted scientific definition of a living organism, and its DNA tells us, without question, what kind of organism it is, viz., a member of the species Homo sapiens, in other words a human being. Denying this puts you in the same category of nutcasery as those who believe that Bruce Jenner is a woman.
You poor thing. It is a growth that is a collection of human cells. But nothing will ever cause this collection of cells to live. Not even in a deformed condition. There is no either or. No decision as to who would live.
At what point do you consider the cells living?
I actually can't force you to understand. These cells will never be a baby. Not even a horribly deformed baby. A fallopian tube is .05 cm around. The cells grow until that .05 is reached. Then the tube ruptures. In ten minutes the woman is dead. The cells are much the same as a tumor. They are alive like a tumor they they survive on blood flow.
 

Dragonlady

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Only if the mother's life is in danger or rape
I absolutely disagree with rape as an excuse. It is not anywhere close to justifiable to put an innocent person to death, for a crime in which he had no willing part.

Put the fragment of solid digestive waste to death, who committed the rape to death, and I'm OK with that. But never, never never never an innocent child. I cannot grasp the degree of sociopathy and evil that it takes to support such a position.
A zygot us not a person. A person is an "individua", and since the zygot cannot exist without its host, it does not meet the definition of a "person". It is not living either. It has no heart beat and no breath of life. A fetus has a heartbeat but cannot breathe on its own.

There is no term or condition except in your feeble brain, in which the gestating fetus is a "person" with rights separate from its host. Filling a page with "over and over" won't change the fallacies in your logic.
Well. In an ectopic pregnancy it is just a growth. It will never be a baby. It will never be the size of a kidney bean. It isn't alive in any real sense of the word.
From a scientific standpoint, you're just plain wrong.

Even at that point, in that circumstance, it meets every accepted scientific definition of a living organism, and its DNA tells us, without question, what kind of organism it is, viz., a member of the species Homo sapiens, in other words a human being. Denying this puts you in the same category of nutcasery as those who believe that Bruce Jenner is a woman.
You poor thing. It is a growth that is a collection of human cells. But nothing will ever cause this collection of cells to live. Not even in a deformed condition. There is no either or. No decision as to who would live.
At what point do you consider the cells living?
When they can draw breath on their own.
 

22lcidw

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Well. In an ectopic pregnancy it is just a growth. It will never be a baby. It will never be the size of a kidney bean. It isn't alive in any real sense of the word.
From a scientific standpoint, you're just plain wrong.

Even at that point, in that circumstance, it meets every accepted scientific definition of a living organism, and its DNA tells us, without question, what kind of organism it is, viz., a member of the species Homo sapiens, in other words a human being. Denying this puts you in the same category of nutcasery as those who believe that Bruce Jenner is a woman.
You poor thing. It is a growth that is a collection of human cells. But nothing will ever cause this collection of cells to live. Not even in a deformed condition. There is no either or. No decision as to who would live.
At what point do you consider the cells living?
I actually can't force you to understand. These cells will never be a baby. Not even a horribly deformed baby. A fallopian tube is .05 cm around. The cells grow until that .05 is reached. Then the tube ruptures. In ten minutes the woman is dead. The cells are much the same as a tumor. They are alive like a tumor they they survive on blood flow.
The abortion issue is a behavior one.
 

Bob Blaylock

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It is an act of unutterable cruelty to force a woman to carry and bear a child of rape. It is an act of unutterable cruelty to take that child's life. Perhaps the rapist should be charged with murder and executed just for setting into motion the need to make such a choice.
It is never, ever, ever justifiable to put an innocent child to death, for a crime in which he had no willing part. Ever.

It takes an extreme, soulless sociopath to even suggest such a thing.
 

Dragonlady

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It depends on what the woman's personal beliefs are.
It seems the the "it is my body" theme works for abortions but not for taking potential medicines for the plague.
That's because desperate people will take desperate risks and there are those willing to exploit their situation for personal gain. Doctors have an obligation not to do harm to the patient, which also means not giving them a drug which won't help their condition, even if they want it.
 
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Slade3200

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Well. In an ectopic pregnancy it is just a growth. It will never be a baby. It will never be the size of a kidney bean. It isn't alive in any real sense of the word.
From a scientific standpoint, you're just plain wrong.

Even at that point, in that circumstance, it meets every accepted scientific definition of a living organism, and its DNA tells us, without question, what kind of organism it is, viz., a member of the species Homo sapiens, in other words a human being. Denying this puts you in the same category of nutcasery as those who believe that Bruce Jenner is a woman.
You poor thing. It is a growth that is a collection of human cells. But nothing will ever cause this collection of cells to live. Not even in a deformed condition. There is no either or. No decision as to who would live.
At what point do you consider the cells living?
I actually can't force you to understand. These cells will never be a baby. Not even a horribly deformed baby. A fallopian tube is .05 cm around. The cells grow until that .05 is reached. Then the tube ruptures. In ten minutes the woman is dead. The cells are much the same as a tumor. They are alive like a tumor they they survive on blood flow.
Well you could start by just answering my simple question. Those who believe that life begins at contraception would disagree with your analysis. I happen to agree that there is a difference between a living human and a developing human
 
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Slade3200

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You know what should resolve the abortion debate? Technology. Developing a machine that can take a fertilized egg And nurture / Incubate it until it is ready to live independently. Boom. Problem solved!
 

Fiero425

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Only if the mother's life is in danger or rape
I absolutely disagree with rape as an excuse. It is not anywhere close to justifiable to put an innocent person to death, for a crime in which he had no willing part.

Put the fragment of solid digestive waste to death, who committed the rape to death, and I'm OK with that. But never, never never never an innocent child. I cannot grasp the degree of sociopathy and evil that it takes to support such a position.
It is an act of unutterable cruelty to force a woman to carry and bear a child of rape. It is an act of unutterable cruelty to take that child's life. Perhaps the rapist should be charged with murder and executed just for setting into motion the need to make such a choice.

I have known women that made both decisions, some had abortions, some did not. The most extreme ended up horribly. The woman elected to keep the baby. The child committed suicide at 17. The mother never recovered from the rape and died of complications of acute alcoholism in her 50s.
People who oppose abortion don't GAF about the future or the resulting chaos of being forced to give birth to a rapist's baby! You hear horror stories of him getting parental rights or his parents putting in their bid to the drama! This is one sick country when the legal process is brought into life and death dramas exacerbated by politics! :(
 

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