Is it ever ok to have an Abortion?

[Slade3200]

Fair point. What are your thoughts on birth control pills. Are those considered homicide in your POV?

As long as we're talking about methods that prevent contraception from occurring in the first place, I don't see how they would constitute homicide. I have no problem at all with the legality of any such methods.

condoms and diaphragms block the sperm from finding the egg but IUDs, birth control pills and other like forms can allow a sperm to fertilize an egg. They prevent the egg from attaching to the uterus. I’m guess that you’d want to outlaw these type of birth control methods, is that correct?

 

[Slade3200]

Well it’s kind of interesting that we are 4 pages deep now and you are the only pro lifer that has given a serious and direct answer to the question. Says a little something about our ability, or inability in this case, as a people to have a straight forward and productive discussion

Well, although, as I said earlier, my position is probably considered extreme, even among those opposed to abortion,but I think it is truly the only position that is rooted in common decency and common sense.

The other extreme is to deny the humanity of the innocent victim of abortion, and on that basis, to deny that abortion itself is homicide, or in any other way, morally or ethically wrong.

Anywhere between these two extremes, one has to engage in irrational and self-contradictory exercises in Orwellian doublethink. Some issues truly are binary, black and white,and this is one of them. Either one extreme is right, or the other extreme is right, and all the positions that try to claim any middle ground are simply wrong. Abortion is either homicide, or it is not. There is no such thing as “partial homicide”.

And if it is homicide, then no position can rationally be defended that holds that it should be treated any more lightly under the law than any other form of homicide.

I think the inability on the part of others to form a clear argument is a direct result of trying to claim some middle-ground position that simply isn't there to claim. Stop trying to make excuses to defend what you know is wrong and indefensible, and the argument becomes more clear.

You are correct. This issue is an extremely difficult one and something that I as a man would never presume to understand in the same way as a woman. I don’t think many people who are pro choice enjoy the thought of abortion, it’s a tragic event, but they don’t think the state should be making that call and they don’t think poor girls that get knocked up should risk their lives with black market or self induced abortions which was what was happening before roe...

 

[Slade3200]

I read this article about a mother who found out in her second trimester that the fetus had a condition that was preventing its bones and brain to grow. The doctor told her that the baby would likely not survive the term of her pregnancy and there was a risk to her health so she decided to terminate. I’m curious about what the pro-lifers think about this. Should this be legal or illegal?

Laura Prepon Reveals Heartbreaking Decision She Made to Terminate Her Second Pregnancy — People

"I feel in order to have a real conversation about motherhood, you need to share truths and talk about what's really going on," the star tells PEOPLE

apple.news

How much risk, and which condition? Is the baby even going to make it term? It sounds like you’re referring to craniosynostosis. Which as far as I know most, if not all. cases are treatable. I’m can’t think of any conditions where the bones grow enough to house a brain, and then just stop growing in the womb. Craniosynostosis on the other hand is when the skull sutures prematurely close up. Either surgery or even a helmet can fix that. From what it sounds like to me you read an article written by a journalist who doesn’t know medicine or biology, and gave a cliff notes version of the story with their limited understanding of biology.

I posted the article. You can read for yourself and learn about the condition

 

[Contumacious]

I read this article about a mother who found out in her second trimester that the fetus had a condition that was preventing its bones and brain to grow. The doctor told her that the baby would likely not survive the term of her pregnancy and there was a risk to her health so she decided to terminate. I’m curious about what the pro-lifers think about this. Should this be legal or illegal?

Laura Prepon Reveals Heartbreaking Decision She Made to Terminate Her Second Pregnancy — People

"I feel in order to have a real conversation about motherhood, you need to share truths and talk about what's really going on," the star tells PEOPLE

apple.news

Women are free individuals who fully control their reproductive organs and must be permitted to do what THEY think is right.

**** the theocratic police state and its anti-abortion Laws.

.

 

[Slade3200]

I read this article about a mother who found out in her second trimester that the fetus had a condition that was preventing its bones and brain to grow. The doctor told her that the baby would likely not survive the term of her pregnancy and there was a risk to her health so she decided to terminate. I’m curious about what the pro-lifers think about this. Should this be legal or illegal?

Laura Prepon Reveals Heartbreaking Decision She Made to Terminate Her Second Pregnancy — People

"I feel in order to have a real conversation about motherhood, you need to share truths and talk about what's really going on," the star tells PEOPLE

apple.news

Women are free individuals who fully control their reproductive organs and must be permitted to do what THEY think is right.

**** the theocratic police state and its anti-abortion Laws.

.

To a degree, right? Like you wouldn’t think it acceptable for a woman to abort and kill a baby the day before it’s delivery date when it could be born and survive on its own... would you agree?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I read this article about a mother who found out in her second trimester that the fetus had a condition that was preventing its bones and brain to grow. The doctor told her that the baby would likely not survive the term of her pregnancy and there was a risk to her health so she decided to terminate. I’m curious about what the pro-lifers think about this. Should this be legal or illegal?

Laura Prepon Reveals Heartbreaking Decision She Made to Terminate Her Second Pregnancy — People

"I feel in order to have a real conversation about motherhood, you need to share truths and talk about what's really going on," the star tells PEOPLE

apple.news

I didn't read the article...and I don't really see the point you are making.

What you are talking about here is triage.

Saving one life over another that has a lesser chance of survival.

If a woman has gangrene, her leg may have to be amputated.

That doesn't mean we should cut off healthy legs of people who find legs inconvenient.

I wasn’t making a point. I was asking a question. Appears that your answer is that you think it’s fine to have an abortion in the cases noted in the article. That’s all you had to say

Okay.

I believe in triage. I was a soldier. There are times when a person cannot be saved, and a doctor has to do what he or she can to save those who can be saved.

Ok so legally speaking how does that get legislated? Is there a way to measure the risk factors and a threshold that needs to be met before an abortion would be legally permitted?

Why not use history as a guide. No woman was ever forced to endure an ectopic pregnancy before Roe V Wade. So how was that legislated?

Ectopic pregnancies are excised surgically. There is no abortion.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

condoms and diaphragms block the sperm from finding the egg but IUDs, birth control pills and other like forms can allow a sperm to fertilize an egg. They prevent the egg from attaching to the uterus. I’m guess that you’d want to outlaw these type of birth control methods, is that correct?

If a form of birth control allows conception, but then prevents the child thus created from being able to develop any further, then yes, that is homicide, and on that basis, should be illegal.

 

[Slade3200]

I read this article about a mother who found out in her second trimester that the fetus had a condition that was preventing its bones and brain to grow. The doctor told her that the baby would likely not survive the term of her pregnancy and there was a risk to her health so she decided to terminate. I’m curious about what the pro-lifers think about this. Should this be legal or illegal?

Laura Prepon Reveals Heartbreaking Decision She Made to Terminate Her Second Pregnancy — People

"I feel in order to have a real conversation about motherhood, you need to share truths and talk about what's really going on," the star tells PEOPLE

apple.news

I didn't read the article...and I don't really see the point you are making.

What you are talking about here is triage.

Saving one life over another that has a lesser chance of survival.

If a woman has gangrene, her leg may have to be amputated.

That doesn't mean we should cut off healthy legs of people who find legs inconvenient.

I wasn’t making a point. I was asking a question. Appears that your answer is that you think it’s fine to have an abortion in the cases noted in the article. That’s all you had to say

Okay.

I believe in triage. I was a soldier. There are times when a person cannot be saved, and a doctor has to do what he or she can to save those who can be saved.

Ok so legally speaking how does that get legislated? Is there a way to measure the risk factors and a threshold that needs to be met before an abortion would be legally permitted?

Why not use history as a guide. No woman was ever forced to endure an ectopic pregnancy before Roe V Wade. So how was that legislated?

Ectopic pregnancies are excised surgically. There is no abortion.

Haha, is that another fact you think you are dropping? I’m sorry ma’am and I do mean this with the upmost respect... but you’re a moron. Thank you for playing

 

[Slade3200]

condoms and diaphragms block the sperm from finding the egg but IUDs, birth control pills and other like forms can allow a sperm to fertilize an egg. They prevent the egg from attaching to the uterus. I’m guess that you’d want to outlaw these type of birth control methods, is that correct?

If a form of birth control allows conception, but then prevents the child thus created from being able to develop any further, then yes, that is homicide, and on that basis, should be illegal.

yes, that is what the pill and most other ingested forms of BC do

 

[Bob Blaylock]

You are correct. This issue is an extremely difficult one…

It's not at all a difficult issue, if you can sort our the basic distinction between right and wrong, good and evil, and you don't try to make excuses for that which you know deep down to be on the wrong/evil side.

Intentionally killing an innocent human being, in the absence of extreme circumstances that make it necessary to prevent a greater tragedy, is evil. Always. No exceptions.

You only think this is a difficult issue,because you're trying to make excuses for killing an innocent human being, where no circumstances exist that are anywhere close to drastic enough to justify it.

…and something that I as a man would never presume to understand in the same way as a woman. I don’t think many people who are pro choice enjoy the thought of abortion, it’s a tragic event, but they don’t think the state should be making that call…

As someone who is not an inner-city criminal gang members, should I presume to understand the point of view of someone who is, and thus presume to judge whether a gang member should be allowed to commit murder?

Murder is murder, and I don't give a solid digestive waste how the murderer's point of view may differ from my own. Yes, I want the state to make that call, always, to prohibit murder, and to impose the most serious criminal penalties on those convicted of engaging in it.

…and they don’t think poor girls that get knocked up should risk their lives with black market or self induced abortions which was what was happening before roe...

Spare me the crocodile tears for these “poor girls”. Trying to play on sympathy for a cold-blooded murderer gets nowhere with me. I have no sympathy for murderers. I certainly give no weight to arguments based on sparing murderers any risk to their own lives or safety as a result of their crimes.

Anyone who willingly participates the murder of an innocent human being, especially a helpless child, deserves to be put to death. Period. A murderer who survives, but with serious injury, but no further consequences, is already getting off too easy.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Ectopic pregnancies are excised surgically. There is no abortion.

Dishonest semantic game-playing.

The fact is, an ectopic pregnancy involves an innocent human being who, in this case, has nearly no chance of surviving, and who must be killed in order to spare his mother's safety and possibly her life.

You can try to redefine “abortion” to exclude this procedure, but regardless of what words we decide are or are not applicable, the tragedy and reality of this situation is unchanged.

 

[Slade3200]

You are correct. This issue is an extremely difficult one…

It's not at all a difficult issue, if you can sort our the basic distinction between right and wrong, good and evil, and you don't try to make excuses for that which you know deep down to be on the wrong/evil side.

Intentionally killing an innocent human being, in the absence of extreme circumstances that make it necessary to prevent a greater tragedy, is evil. Always. No exceptions.

You only think this is a difficult issue,because you're trying to make excuses for killing an innocent human being, where no circumstances exist that are anywhere close to drastic enough to justify it.

…and something that I as a man would never presume to understand in the same way as a woman. I don’t think many people who are pro choice enjoy the thought of abortion, it’s a tragic event, but they don’t think the state should be making that call…

As someone who is not an inner-city criminal gang members, should I presume to understand the point of view of someone who is, and thus presume to judge whether a gang member should be allowed to commit murder?

Murder is murder, and I don't give a solid digestive waste how the murderer's point of view may differ from my own. Yes, I want the state to make that call, always, to prohibit murder, and to impose the most serious criminal penalties on those convicted of engaging in it.

…and they don’t think poor girls that get knocked up should risk their lives with black market or self induced abortions which was what was happening before roe...

Spare me the crocodile tears for these “poor girls”. Trying to play on sympathy for a cold-blooded murderer gets nowhere with me. I have no sympathy for murderers. I certainly give no weight to arguments based on sparing murderers any risk to their own lives or safety as a result of their crimes.

Anyone who willingly participates the murder of an innocent human being, especially a helpless child, deserves to be put to death. Period. A murderer who survives, but with serious injury, but no further consequences, is already getting off too easy.

I think you try and simplify it too much. I commend you on your convictions and think you take the most logical and easy to follow stance on your side of the issue... it’s very black and white. However it does come off like you lack understanding or respect of other people’s perspectives. For example the question about when life begins? What is life? What determines the value of life?

if I asked you what makes your life more value able than that of a cow... what would your answer be?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Ectopic pregnancies are excised surgically. There is no abortion.

Dishonest semantic game-playing.

The fact is, an ectopic pregnancy involves an innocent human being who, in this case, has nearly no chance of surviving, and who must be killed in order to spare his mother's safety and possibly her life.

You can try to redefine “abortion” to exclude this procedure, but regardless of what words we decide are or are not applicable, the tragedy and reality of this situation is unchanged.

Removing an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion. It's a surgical procedure to remove a dangerous growth. There is no "nearly" no chance of survival. It will grow until the fallopian tube ruptures then the woman dies. The fetal cells aren't said to die because they were no more alive than a growing tumor.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

A very good friend of mine had an abortion in her 7th month. Everything was going well until the baby just died. I don't know why. I think they had an autopsy so they knew and never said. By the time the death was known it had already turned septic. My friend was very sick for awhile. But she went on to have two more children so no harm done.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I think you try and simplify it too much. I commend you on your convictions and think you take the most logical and easy to follow stance on your side of the issue... it’s very black and white. However it does come off like you lack understanding or respect of other people’s perspectives. For example the question about when life begins? What is life? What determines the value of life?

Some things really are black and white; and it is trying to find and claim the nonexistent shades of grey that create the confusion and difficulty that you are experiencing on this issue.

When you recognize the scientific and moral reality of abortion, and stop trying to selectively deny parts of this reality where you wish they didn't apply, then the moral confusion all goes away.

if I asked you what makes your life more value able than that of a cow... what would your answer be?

I'm a human being. A rightful occupant of the apex of the food chain. A cow is just a cow.

What makes the life of a lion more valuable than that of a gazelle?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Removing an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion. It's a surgical procedure to remove a dangerous growth. There is no "nearly" no chance of survival. It will grow until the fallopian tube ruptures then the woman dies. The fetal cells aren't said to die because they were no more alive than a growing tumor.

That “dangerous growth” is a live, innocent human being, who has had the misfortune of coming into existence under circumstances which give him almost zero chance of long-term survival, and make his very existence a serious threat to someone else's life as well. And no responsible doctor or scientist would deny that this human being was alive. That's just a lie that you tell yourself, to make yourself more comfortable with the hard reality that in this situation, the life of one human being has to be sacrificed in order to save another.

 

[Slade3200]

Ectopic pregnancies are excised surgically. There is no abortion.

Dishonest semantic game-playing.

The fact is, an ectopic pregnancy involves an innocent human being who, in this case, has nearly no chance of surviving, and who must be killed in order to spare his mother's safety and possibly her life.

You can try to redefine “abortion” to exclude this procedure, but regardless of what words we decide are or are not applicable, the tragedy and reality of this situation is unchanged.

Removing an ectopic pregnancy is not an abortion. It's a surgical procedure to remove a dangerous growth. There is no "nearly" no chance of survival. It will grow until the fallopian tube ruptures then the woman dies. The fetal cells aren't said to die because they were no more alive than a growing tumor.

Wow, when it’s convenient you just jump right into calling the baby a growth no more alive than a tumor huh?!. There’s a mighty jump. Unbelievable

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Wow, when it’s convenient you just jump right into calling the baby a growth no more alive than a tumor huh?!. There’s a mighty jump. Unbelievable

The same confusion and doublethink occurs on both sides; everywhere except at the two extremes, and for exactly the same reason, that most people try to stake out some piece of the nonexistent grey area between the two poles of what truly is a black or white issue.

 

[DOTR]

Fair point. What are your thoughts on birth control pills. Are those considered homicide in your POV?

As long as we're talking about methods that prevent contraception from occurring in the first place, I don't see how they would constitute homicide. I have no problem at all with the legality of any such methods.

condoms and diaphragms block the sperm from finding the egg but IUDs, birth control pills and other like forms can allow a sperm to fertilize an egg. They prevent the egg from attaching to the uterus. I’m guess that you’d want to outlaw these type of birth control methods, is that correct?

That not how they work. Pills stop ovalation.

 

[DOTR]

I read this article about a mother who found out in her second trimester that the fetus had a condition that was preventing its bones and brain to grow. The doctor told her that the baby would likely not survive the term of her pregnancy and there was a risk to her health so she decided to terminate. I’m curious about what the pro-lifers think about this. Should this be legal or illegal?

Laura Prepon Reveals Heartbreaking Decision She Made to Terminate Her Second Pregnancy — People

"I feel in order to have a real conversation about motherhood, you need to share truths and talk about what's really going on," the star tells PEOPLE

apple.news

Women are free individuals who fully control their reproductive organs and must be permitted to do what THEY think is right.

**** the theocratic police state and its anti-abortion Laws.

.

Women vote pro-life.