Is it "Congress's" Constitutional Duty To Raise The Debt Ceiling?

[pknopp]

No, Democrats would not spend less under any of them.

I never argued they would. I'm arguing that just saying you would hasn't meant you will.

 

[task0778]

If we don't need to pay the debt down to zero...how does that make any sense?

You as always...are talking in circles

We do not need to pay down the debt to zero, although eventually that should be the plan. No interest payments at all is the best scenario, but obviously that is not going to happen anytime soon, so the next best thing is to get spending down to at least within the growth in revenue so that we are not creating an ever-larger problem for future generations to deal with. I am appalled that so many people do not realize the fiscal burden we are creating.

 

[pknopp]

We do not need to pay down the debt to zero, although eventually that should be the plan. No interest payments at all is the best scenario, but obviously that is not going to happen anytime soon, so the next best thing is to get spending down to at least within the growth in revenue so that we are not creating an ever-larger problem for future generations to deal with. I am appalled that so many people do not realize the fiscal burden we are creating.

Or what is going to happen when the dollar isn't used worldwide for trade. When that happens we become Venezuela.

 

[Independentthinker]

Provided the GDP is growing, and the so-called "national debt" isn't 100%+ our GDP, we're fine. If the money the federal government spends is for vital services and infrastructural development, there's zero danger of hyperinflation. Our current federal budget is peanuts when compared to our GDP.

LOL. We just went through a bout of hyperinflation and it is still double what it should be.

 

[Independentthinker]

If we don't need to pay the debt down to zero...how does that make any sense?

You as always...are talking in circles

Our debt should not be at 32 trillion dollars. Don't you agree?

 

[Independentthinker]

Actually Clinton had a surplus at the end of his second term and passed that on to Bush...who could blow it on tax cuts fast enough.

So....bullshit

The tax cuts did not bring in less revenue.

 

[Independentthinker]

I never argued they would. I'm arguing that just saying you would hasn't meant you will.

But we just did. Haven't you been reading the news over the last few days?

 

[pknopp]

But we just did. Haven't you been reading the news over the last few days?

I've addressed this many times.......rinse, repeat.

 

[Red Front]

LOL. We just went through a bout of hyperinflation and it is still double what it should be.

That's due to companies raising prices to capitalize on a crisis. Worldwide pandemic. The US federal government could very easily double its budget without a problem, but it doesn't even have to do that, to cancel student debt or even provide everyone with an education. It wouldn't even have to double its current income.

The type of inflation that we are experiencing now could very easily be stopped by government price controls, as Nixon did:

Nixon issued Executive Order 11615 (pursuant to the Economic Stabilization Act of 1970), imposing a 90-day freeze on wages and prices in order to counter inflation. This was the first time the U.S. government had enacted wage and price controls since World War II.

Nixon shock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In practically every case, the government can easily end inflation when it wants to. So again, if you think canceling student debt or providing Americans with an education or Medicare for all, is going to "bankrupt" America, you're wrong. The US federal government will never go insolvent. The US federal government is swimming in dollars. We have more than enough money.

 

[Lesh]

The tax cuts did not bring in less revenue.

Well that surplus certainly disappeared

 

[Lesh]

Our debt should not be at 32 trillion dollars. Don't you agree?

Our debt is what it is.

 

[Red Front]

That's due to companies raising prices to capitalize on a crisis. Worldwide pandemic. The US federal government could very easily double its budget without a problem, but it doesn't even have to do that, to cancel student debt or even provide everyone with an education. It wouldn't even have to double its current income.

The type of inflation that we are experiencing now could very easily be stopped by government price controls, as Nixon did:

Nixon issued Executive Order 11615 (pursuant to the Economic Stabilization Act of 1970), imposing a 90-day freeze on wages and prices in order to counter inflation. This was the first time the U.S. government had enacted wage and price controls since World War II.

Nixon shock - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In practically every case, the government can easily end inflation when it wants to. So again, if you think canceling student debt or providing Americans with an education or Medicare for all, is going to "bankrupt" America, you're wrong. The US federal government will never go insolvent. The US federal government is swimming in dollars. We have more than enough money.

This is a more relevant reference of President Nixon's move to stabilize prices in a recession:

Economic Stabilization Act of 1970 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Redfish]

Again. A fantasy

in your personal life would you be better off with no debt? of course, why does that not apply to a country ?

 

[Redfish]

Our debt is what it is.

yes, thanks to the criminals we have sent to DC who ran up our debt to fill their own pockets.

 

[Faun]

in your personal life would you be better off with no debt? of course, why does that not apply to a country ?

In your personal life, you only have to consider yourself. Whereas the country has 330 million people to consider.

 

[Redfish]

No sir, you're incorrect. The so-called "national debt" could just as well be called the "national surplus". Individuals like you and me, are currency users, not currency issuers. We don't issue the dollar, we use it. There's a vast difference between our personal or household debt and the US federal government's "debt". The federal government really doesn't have a debt, the "scary debt" or "31 trillion" both Republican and Democrat politicians like to throw around to terrify the public, is but a ledger of how much money is being saved in the economy in treasury bonds and in other assets, including personal savings. It's the money that the government prints that isn't returned to the government in taxes and in other fees (licenses, permits..etc.).

The government's "red ink" is our black ink. When our federal government "balances the budget" there is less money in the economy to invest. That's why there's a recession or even a deep depression whenever the government eliminates its "debt". Our federal government can never go insolvent or not have enough dollars to meet its obligations.

if its not real debt why is the government making interest payments on it?

 

[Redfish]

We do not need to pay down the debt to zero, although eventually that should be the plan. No interest payments at all is the best scenario, but obviously that is not going to happen anytime soon, so the next best thing is to get spending down to at least within the growth in revenue so that we are not creating an ever-larger problem for future generations to deal with. I am appalled that so many people do not realize the fiscal burden we are creating.

at some point the USA is just going to have to declare bankruptsy and tell China and the other creditors to pound sand. This ever increasing debt cannot go on forever.

 

[Red Front]

if its not real debt why is the government making interest payments on it?

It's not real debt, in the sense of your personal or household debt, because you don't create dollars by typing an amount into a keyboard at the FED, as the US federal government does. In an imaginary world, where everyone who owns treasury bonds decides to redeem them at the same time or let's say in the same year, that wouldn't cause the federal government to become insolvent or unable to pay its debts. Watch this:

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[Red Front]

at some point the USA is just going to have to declare bankruptsy and tell China and the other creditors to pound sand. This ever increasing debt cannot go on forever.

Mike Norman - Economist:

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