Zone1 Is habeas corpus a right in a free society ?

[Tommy Tainant]

What is habeas corpus and why might Donald Trump want to suspend it?

It is a safeguard against unlawful imprisonment - but the White House is "actively looking" at pausing it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently Pres Trump is looking to stop habeas corpus in order to speed up the deportation of people.
This is already happening and there are many examples of life changing errors happening.
The question is do you have the right to a trial ?
Does your neighbour ?
Should you have a right to counsel ?

Is it worth slowing the process down to ensure fairness ?

 

[DGS49]

I seriously do not know why Leftists are so stupid about "due process."

It is different in every case.

When an American citizen is accused of a crime, s/he is entitled to a whole cornucopia of rights, most of the originating in the Fourth Amendment and some dating back to English Common Law.

The same cornucopia of rights does not attach to everyone in the U.S., everyone apprehended by the U.S. government, or all circumstances.

If a non-citizen is apprehended in, let's say, a raid on an employer known to employ illegals, and it can easily be ascertained that they are in the country illegally, the person's "due process" rights may be nothing more than an interview with an ICE representative. Then they can be deported or detained for later deportation. They are not entitled to a trial, free government-provided legal representation, or any of that. "Due process" varies according to the situation.

The same is true of Habeas Corpus. American citizens have HC rights when they are detained against their will and it appears reasonably that their due process rights are being withheld. For illegals, this is not the case. Remember Noriega? No habeas corpus. He died in detention, as I recall.

We run into the same arguments with people detained at Gitmo. Enemy combatants are not entitled to a trial, legal counsel, and they have no Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

The sad fact is that the political Left WANTS these wretched third-world bastards to remain in the U.S. They want them to be counted for representation purposes, they want them to get the full benefit of our social Safety Net, and they want them eventually to be made U.S. citizens under a program they euphemistically call, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform." Leftists are evil. How can anyone not see it?

 

[luiza]

.
The question is do you have the right to a trial ?

The question is ,
Why do stupid people like you argue about whether a known illegal has a right to trial ?

Extenuating circumstances cannot change your status of being an Illegal .
You may produce any number of bad luck factors which led you to becoming an illegal .
So What ?

Who Cares , other than the Guilty Illegal?
Probably Extremist lefty Troll Bots like you care --- those who have probably now got changed brains and DNA from their Covid Killer Jabs . Mutants .
Unbalanced and simple people .

 

[hadit]

What is habeas corpus and why might Donald Trump want to suspend it?

It is a safeguard against unlawful imprisonment - but the White House is "actively looking" at pausing it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently Pres Trump is looking to stop habeas corpus in order to speed up the deportation of people.
This is already happening and there are many examples of life changing errors happening.
The question is do you have the right to a trial ?
Does your neighbour ?
Should you have a right to counsel ?

Is it worth slowing the process down to ensure fairness ?

Well, Abraham Lincoln did it, so it's not without precedent.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I seriously do not know why Leftists are so stupid about "due process."

It is different in every case.

When an American citizen is accused of a crime, s/he is entitled to a whole cornucopia of rights, most of the originating in the Fourth Amendment and some dating back to English Common Law.

The same cornucopia of rights does not attach to everyone in the U.S., everyone apprehended by the U.S. government, or all circumstances.

If a non-citizen is apprehended in, let's say, a raid on an employer known to employ illegals, and it can easily be ascertained that they are in the country illegally, the person's "due process" rights may be nothing more than an interview with an ICE representative. Then they can be deported or detained for later deportation. They are not entitled to a trial, free government-provided legal representation, or any of that. "Due process" varies according to the situation.

The same is true of Habeas Corpus. American citizens have HC rights when they are detained against their will and it appears reasonably that their due process rights are being withheld. For illegals, this is not the case. Remember Noriega? No habeas corpus. He died in detention, as I recall.

We run into the same arguments with people detained at Gitmo. Enemy combatants are not entitled to a trial, legal counsel, and they have no Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

The sad fact is that the political Left WANTS these wretched third-world bastards to remain in the U.S. They want them to be counted for representation purposes, they want them to get the full benefit of our social Safety Net, and they want them eventually to be made U.S. citizens under a program they euphemistically call, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform." Leftists are evil. How can anyone not see it?

So there is no habeas corpus in the US. Not under trump anyway.

 

[Darkwind]

Well, Abraham Lincoln did it, so it's not without precedent.

It has actually been suspended four times.

Instance	Date/Period	Context/Reason	Geographic Scope
Civil War (Abraham Lincoln)	1861–1865	To suppress rebellion and maintain public safety during the Civil War	Initially in Maryland, later throughout the Union
Reconstruction (Ku Klux Klan activity)	1871	To combat violent resistance by the Ku Klux Klan during Reconstruction	Eleven counties in South Carolina
Philippine Insurrection	1905	In response to armed insurrection against U.S. rule	Two provinces in the Philippines (then a U.S. territory)
World War II (Pearl Harbor)	1941–1944	After the attack on Pearl Harbor, for security and martial law purposes	Territory of Hawaii

• Civil War (1861–1865): President Abraham Lincoln first suspended habeas corpus in Maryland in 1861 to prevent Confederate sympathizers from disrupting Union troop movements. Congress later passed the Habeas Corpus Suspension Act (1863), giving the president broader authority to suspend the writ throughout the Union for the duration of the war and in cases involving prisoners of war, spies, traitors, or military personnel. The suspension lasted until it was revoked by President Andrew Johnson in 1865
  
  1​
  
  
  2​
  
  
  4​
  
  
  5​
  
  .
• Reconstruction (1871): President Ulysses S. Grant suspended habeas corpus in eleven South Carolina counties to suppress Ku Klux Klan violence and restore order during Reconstruction. This was authorized by the Civil Rights Act of 1871 (also known as the Ku Klux Klan Act)
  
  1​
  
  
  2​
  
  
  4​
  
  
  5​
  
  .
• Philippine Insurrection (1905): During an insurrection against American rule in the Philippines, habeas corpus was suspended in two provinces to address armed resistance and maintain control
  
  1​
  
  
  2​
  
  
  5​
  
  .
• World War II (1941–1944): Following the attack on Pearl Harbor, martial law was declared in Hawaii (then a U.S. territory), and habeas corpus was suspended to maintain security and order during the war
  
  1​
  
  
  2​
  
  
  5​
  
  .

These are the only four recognized instances where the writ of habeas corpus has been formally suspended in U.S. history

1
2
​

 

[hadit]

So there is no habeas corpus in the US. Not under trump anyway.

Do you ever differentiate between citizens and those in the country illegally, or do you deliberately conflate them so as to further your narrative?

 

[Zincwarrior]

Well, Abraham Lincoln did it, so it's not without precedent.

That was during the ACW.

 

[hadit]

That was during the ACW.

Yes, it was. The point being that it has been suspended before.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

I seriously do not know why Leftists are so stupid about "due process."

It is different in every case.

When an American citizen is accused of a crime, s/he is entitled to a whole cornucopia of rights, most of the originating in the Fourth Amendment and some dating back to English Common Law.

The same cornucopia of rights does not attach to everyone in the U.S., everyone apprehended by the U.S. government, or all circumstances.

If a non-citizen is apprehended in, let's say, a raid on an employer known to employ illegals, and it can easily be ascertained that they are in the country illegally, the person's "due process" rights may be nothing more than an interview with an ICE representative. Then they can be deported or detained for later deportation. They are not entitled to a trial, free government-provided legal representation, or any of that. "Due process" varies according to the situation.

The same is true of Habeas Corpus. American citizens have HC rights when they are detained against their will and it appears reasonably that their due process rights are being withheld. For illegals, this is not the case. Remember Noriega? No habeas corpus. He died in detention, as I recall.

We run into the same arguments with people detained at Gitmo. Enemy combatants are not entitled to a trial, legal counsel, and they have no Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

The sad fact is that the political Left WANTS these wretched third-world bastards to remain in the U.S. They want them to be counted for representation purposes, they want them to get the full benefit of our social Safety Net, and they want them eventually to be made U.S. citizens under a program they euphemistically call, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform." Leftists are evil. How can anyone not see it?

So as a non citizen visiting the US I can be locked up or sent to El Salvador without even being charged with a crime ?
Where is the fairness in that ?

 

[hadit]

So as a non citizen visiting the US I can be locked up or sent to El Salvador without even being charged with a crime ?
Where is the fairness in that ?

Do you contend that non-citizens have all the same rights as citizens? Let's start with that. Keep in mind while answering that Wales is fair game for comparison. How do you treat illegal aliens?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Do you contend that non-citizens have all the same rights as citizens? Let's start with that. Keep in mind while answering that Wales is fair game for comparison. How do you treat illegal aliens?

Non citizens cant vote so your straw man is worthless. But they are all equal under the law. Not in Americaa it would seem.
And remember trumpy wants to deport us born citizens he doesnt like.
That may include you. And if it doesnt it may be the next admin that decides you arent welcome.
So its good they can kick you out with your blessing.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Do you ever differentiate between citizens and those in the country illegally, or do you deliberately conflate them so as to further your narrative?

Why do you continue with these arbitary divisions ? If I am murdered in the US has my corpse got the same rights as a citizens corpse ?
The right to trial is not a nice thing to have. Its a fundamental human right.

 

[hadit]

Non citizens cant vote so your straw man is worthless. But they are all equal under the law. Not in Americaa it would seem.
And remember trumpy wants to deport us born citizens he doesnt like.
That may include you. And if it doesnt it may be the next admin that decides you arent welcome.
So its good they can kick you out with your blessing.

I didn't say diddly about US citizens being deported. That's YOUR strawman. You're dealing dishonestly.

 

[hadit]

Why do you continue with these arbitary divisions ? If I am murdered in the US has my corpse got the same rights as a citizens corpse ?
The right to trial is not a nice thing to have. Its a fundamental human right.

Arbitrary? Our Constitution maintains a difference in the way citizens and illegal aliens are treated, as does yours. You can pretend everyone is equal under the law, but they're not really.

 

[Zafira Cherry]

What is habeas corpus and why might Donald Trump want to suspend it?

It is a safeguard against unlawful imprisonment - but the White House is "actively looking" at pausing it.

www.bbc.co.uk

Apparently Pres Trump is looking to stop habeas corpus in order to speed up the deportation of people.
This is already happening and there are many examples of life changing errors happening.
The question is do you have the right to a trial ?
Does your neighbour ?
Should you have a right to counsel ?

Is it worth slowing the process down to ensure fairness ?

Tommy, if and when he stops it, he stops it for all.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Ask billy Clinton.....he didn't do no habeas corpus for illegals.....ooooops plus he deported more than Trump ....double oooops

 

[jc456]

I seriously do not know why Leftists are so stupid about "due process."

It is different in every case.

When an American citizen is accused of a crime, s/he is entitled to a whole cornucopia of rights, most of the originating in the Fourth Amendment and some dating back to English Common Law.

The same cornucopia of rights does not attach to everyone in the U.S., everyone apprehended by the U.S. government, or all circumstances.

If a non-citizen is apprehended in, let's say, a raid on an employer known to employ illegals, and it can easily be ascertained that they are in the country illegally, the person's "due process" rights may be nothing more than an interview with an ICE representative. Then they can be deported or detained for later deportation. They are not entitled to a trial, free government-provided legal representation, or any of that. "Due process" varies according to the situation.

The same is true of Habeas Corpus. American citizens have HC rights when they are detained against their will and it appears reasonably that their due process rights are being withheld. For illegals, this is not the case. Remember Noriega? No habeas corpus. He died in detention, as I recall.

We run into the same arguments with people detained at Gitmo. Enemy combatants are not entitled to a trial, legal counsel, and they have no Fifth Amendment right to remain silent.

The sad fact is that the political Left WANTS these wretched third-world bastards to remain in the U.S. They want them to be counted for representation purposes, they want them to get the full benefit of our social Safety Net, and they want them eventually to be made U.S. citizens under a program they euphemistically call, "Comprehensive Immigration Reform." Leftists are evil. How can anyone not see it?

they have to show legal residence. Garcia had no legal residence.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Tommy, if and when he stops it, he stops it for all.

That fact hasnt struck these dumbos yet. They are obviously happy to accept similar treatment under President Crocket.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

they have to show legal residence. Garcia had no legal residence.

His theft was a mistake that trump admitted. All the courts agreed he should be brought back. You cant condemn people on whispers.