Is evading and cheating on your taxes patriotic?

[kaz]

"I am calling the voters who are voting for government to use force to take someone else's money the mob."Weird how this is America, but any voter who ever voted in favor of a tax is "the mob."

No wonder libertarians have such a harsh stereotype as being pedantic babies.

But there are much saner and more intelligent ones out there.

You really don't see the difference between what I said and what you did? Seriously? I apologize for insulting you, I don't pick on people who actually are retarded. I mean special.

 

[RKMBrown]

umm, takeastepback and bripat both said it specifically

Yeah neither of those guys are libertarian.

You asked them, or you're defining them for themselves?

What they self identify as is all that matters to me in this context.

I dont give a shit about kaz's pseudointellectual mental masturbation.

I've known bripat for a while on this forum. He's not libertarian and has stated such on numerous occasions. Takeastepback I don't know well but he explicitly stated that he is not a libertarian in this thread.

Cool. They're still pussies for paying taxes if all taxes are theft.

Sometimes people obey the law even if it is against their principles, if only to stay out of jail. Obeying the law to remain a free citizen while speaking out against said law is not being a *****.

For example, I don't agree with helmet laws, but I'll wear one if I have to, this to avoid having my assets taken from me in the form of fines.

Further, I would argue that unorganized guys who go nutz shooting people in anger about said laws... yeah well they are only heroes if they are part of an organized revolution otherwise it's just domestic terrorism, like the guys Obama's friends with... the weather underground folk.

 

[RKMBrown]

"I am calling the voters who are voting for government to use force to take someone else's money the mob."Weird how this is America, but any voter who ever voted in favor of a tax is "the mob."

No wonder libertarians have such a harsh stereotype as being pedantic babies.

But there are much saner and more intelligent ones out there.

You really don't see the difference between what I said and what you did? Seriously? I apologize for insulting you, I don't pick on people who actually are retarded. I mean special.

every tax is quite literally the govt using force to take someone else's money, dope.

Not true some taxes are arguably voluntary. Like sales taxes that exempt necessities like food products, medicine, utilities, and shelter. Additionally, property taxes where you sign a purchase agreement for property that includes a lien for paying said property tax, yeah you don't have to buy the property. Your signature is necessary for purchase, but it is voluntary.

 

[kaz]

"I am calling the voters who are voting for government to use force to take someone else's money the mob."Weird how this is America, but any voter who ever voted in favor of a tax is "the mob."

No wonder libertarians have such a harsh stereotype as being pedantic babies.

But there are much saner and more intelligent ones out there.

You really don't see the difference between what I said and what you did? Seriously? I apologize for insulting you, I don't pick on people who actually are retarded. I mean special.

every tax is quite literally the govt using force to take someone else's money, dope.

Not true some taxes are arguably voluntary. Like sales taxes that exempt necessities like food products, medicine, utilities, and shelter. Additionally, property taxes where you sign a purchase agreement for property that includes a lien for paying said property tax, yeah you don't have to buy the property. Your signature is necessary for purchase, but it is voluntary.

No, it's not. That you can sit in a cave doesn't make it not voluntary. If you live your life, you have to pay it.

The difference in this discussion though is about wealth redistribution. Einstein doesn't understand the difference between taxes for roads, police, military etc. that are available to everyone and taxes that money is simply taken from one person and given to another. The former is necessary, the latter is a crime. And our brainiac thinks that my voting against it is giving consent to their doing it. But no one else who objects to being victimized is consenting by objecting, only me.

 

[RKMBrown]

"I am calling the voters who are voting for government to use force to take someone else's money the mob."Weird how this is America, but any voter who ever voted in favor of a tax is "the mob."

No wonder libertarians have such a harsh stereotype as being pedantic babies.

But there are much saner and more intelligent ones out there.

You really don't see the difference between what I said and what you did? Seriously? I apologize for insulting you, I don't pick on people who actually are retarded. I mean special.

every tax is quite literally the govt using force to take someone else's money, dope.

Not true some taxes are arguably voluntary. Like sales taxes that exempt necessities like food products, medicine, utilities, and shelter. Additionally, property taxes where you sign a purchase agreement for property that includes a lien for paying said property tax, yeah you don't have to buy the property. Your signature is necessary for purchase, but it is voluntary.

A sales tax is not voluntary - buying the product is.
Property tax is not voluntary, buying the home is.

We disagree on the term voluntary in those scenarios. Because you dont have a choice to pay the tax or not when buying the product or house means the tax itself is involuntary while buying the product or house was a choice.

If the act of purchasing an item is voluntary, and the required tax for that item is known to the purchaser, then the act of purchasing the item is an agreement to voluntarily pay the tax. Your proposal is that the tax and purchase are two separate activities, but they are not.

However, I could understand the argument if you say the item is necessary and is a regulated item, thus through inclusion of the regulatory requirements the laws are forcing you to pay tax for the necessary item. However, as I pointed out most states with sales taxes exempt necessary items to avoid the issue of forcing people to pay taxes for necessities.

 

[RKMBrown]

"I am calling the voters who are voting for government to use force to take someone else's money the mob."Weird how this is America, but any voter who ever voted in favor of a tax is "the mob."

No wonder libertarians have such a harsh stereotype as being pedantic babies.

But there are much saner and more intelligent ones out there.

You really don't see the difference between what I said and what you did? Seriously? I apologize for insulting you, I don't pick on people who actually are retarded. I mean special.

every tax is quite literally the govt using force to take someone else's money, dope.

Not true some taxes are arguably voluntary. Like sales taxes that exempt necessities like food products, medicine, utilities, and shelter. Additionally, property taxes where you sign a purchase agreement for property that includes a lien for paying said property tax, yeah you don't have to buy the property. Your signature is necessary for purchase, but it is voluntary.

No, it's not. That you can sit in a cave doesn't make it not voluntary. If you live your life, you have to pay it.

The difference in this discussion though is about wealth redistribution. Einstein doesn't understand the difference between taxes for roads, police, military etc. that are available to everyone and taxes that money is simply taken from one person and given to another. The former is necessary, the latter is a crime. And our brainiac thinks that my voting against it is giving consent to their doing it. But no one else who objects to being victimized is consenting by objecting, only me.

Yes, it is.
Further most states with property taxes have a homeowner's exemption. So you don't have to live in a cave to avoid property tax, you just have to keep your chosen property to one having a value less than said exemption.

 

[RKMBrown]

Anyhoo, have a good one rkmbrown , we will talk in the future our exchange ended up being cordial. I can get charged up about stuff sometimes and a lot of people here do, too. It doesn't necessarily have to be that way though so, thanks.

Back at ya.
Cheers,...

 

[ChrisL]

oh so if they name it something completely different....................

its fine that they forcibly take the money in that case?


and im the retard?

take a break, dude

Well, the military and other such things used to be funded by other types of taxes before the existence of income tax, but that was a long, long time ago. I don't think other taxes alone could support the costs of having the most powerful military in the world. IMO, that is a GOOD expenditure. I feel good knowing that my country has the most powerful military presence in the world.

Maybe we could just have the best defensive military in the world and stop getting ourselves into everyone's shit

If what we are getting involved in will not benefit the United States in any way, then I would agree. The problem in the ME is that they have a lot of oil. When they act up and act like arses, they affect the entire world economy which we, unfortunately, are a part of . . . which sucks. Seems as if everyone else is too much of a ***** to stand up and do anything about it, so it's always left to the US to be everyone's daddy and take care of business so these insane asylum dwellers in the ME don't destroy everything, being the barbaric ignorant savages that they are.

We have plenty of energy here, why don't we put the effort into that instead of spending it on more military?

I agree with that and I wish we would use more of our own natural resources.

We actually get most of our oil from South America. We only get a small amount from the ME, but their oil supply is still an important global commodity.

Actually, we got a lot more from Canada than South America, though yes, we do import south american oil.

Really? I always thought we got most of our oil from South America. Oh well. My mistake I guess.

 

[kaz]

Actually, we got a lot more from Canada than South America, though yes, we do import south american oil.

Really? I always thought we got most of our oil from South America. Oh well. My mistake I guess.

You're right that Mexico and Venezuela are major suppliers, it's just saying we get most of our imports from there that isn't correct. Canada is a major producer and their exports go almost entirely to us. People don't realize that. They are actually the sixth largest oil producer. We are third. We do also get Saudi oil. BTW, I spent several years in management at GE Power.

We are also helping Russia produce more energy as well as several African countries. Then of course there's teh horizontal frackinjg boom in the US. These are all great ways to reduce the world's dependence on the despots and religious whack jobs on top of the oil in the middle east.

 

[Rozman]

Might be the most patriotic thing an american can do short of serving in the armed forces.
If one can use the tax laws to ones own advantage it's the american way.
And to hear a Lib whine about it makes it all that much sweeter.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

TASB is saying that asking for limited government is foolish, fairy tale stuff. No government in the history of government has ever stayed limited. Like cancer, it always metastasizes. Having a nice limited, libertarian style government would surely beat the leviathan of a beast the world has today, but that's kind of the point.

You dont ask for cancer and expect to have just a touch of it for long.