Is carnivorism ethical?

[Coyote]

Meat eaters kill those animals that have served people for thousands of years with faith and truth, who were friends both in peace and in war, who shed their blood (horses) for us, and they do not kill vile predatory creatures that at least would have received for their deeds if they would be killed.

Why are predators vile?

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Assuming….of course…that the courts got it right.

I neglected to mention that FALSE ACCUSERS in any of the cases I mentioned should also receive the death penalty.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Actually, I have. Have you?

William Clifford Roberts, MD and former Editor in Chief of The American Journal of Cardiology argued in a Letter from the Editor that humans are anatomically and physiologically herbivores. Herbivores, he says, have hands or hoofs, flat teeth, long intestines, sweat to cool the body, sip water (cheeks and lips facilitate the creation of a vacuum in the mouth), and get our vitamin C from our diet. Carnivores have claws, sharp teeth, short intestines, pant to cool themselves, lap up water (because they lack cheeks and lips), and make their own vitamin C.

Plants have tough cell walls made of fiber, sugar molecules bonded together, that provides protection and rigidity without using cholesterol. No mammal produces an enzyme that can digest fiber. Instead, herbivores developed a mobile jaw and flat teeth that slide past each other horizontally to chew their food and crush the cell wall, plus a long digestive tract to provide time to extract nutrients.

Carnivore’s food, animal cells, have a flexible, fat-based cell membrane embedded with cholesterol to give it some rigidity. Animal cells are easily digestible but the bones in animals are not, so carnivores have strong stomach acid and a short digestive tract. No chewing is necessary beyond reducing the size of the chunks enough to swallow because there’s no cell wall. As a result, carnivores like cats and omnivorous carnivores like the bear and dog can only move their jaw up and down; their molars slide past each other vertically like a pair of scissors.

Animals like rabbits, cows, and humans can easily move their lower jaw side to side, and most experts agree that humans have generalized herbivorous dentition that, if anything, is best suited for eating seeds.

Humans are herbivores

Many people think of humans as omnivores, designed to eat a diet with a substantial contribution of nutrients coming from both plants and animals. However, there is strong evidence that humans are in fact herbivores, meaning that the overwhelming majority of their diet should be comprised of...

www.uiargonaut.com

 

[fncceo]

Why did some species become domesticated?

Why the horse but not the zebra?

Why the goat but not the deer?

Why the dog and not the wolf?

There is a very good book on this subject titled, "Guns, Germs, and Steel", by Jared Diamond.

In it, he explains exactly that. Zebras are actually much more aggressive than pre-domesticated horses, and therefore harder to domesticate. Also, the production of domesticated wild plants typically precedes the domestication of animals, because a non-farming hunter-gatherer society doesn't have the fixed facilities required for large-animal domestication. Exceptions of this are typically already domesticated animals being adopted by nomadic societies. Horses by the American Indians, camels and goats by the Arabian Bedouin.

Deer have been domesticated as both food and draft animals but are typically too skittish and hard to domestic versus the auroch.

A dog IS a domesticated wolf.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Again Omnivore, which means we eat plants and meat. and we have the characteristics of both herbivore and carnivore,

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Why did some species become domesticated?

Why the horse but not the zebra

The zebra isnt found in Europe. Africans never developed beyond the Stone Age until the Europeans made contact

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Again Omnivore, which means we eat plants and meat. and we have the characteristics of both herbivore and carnivore,

No we don't. Name them. See post 403

Both scientifically and Biblically, we were CREATED as plant eaters

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No we don't. Name them.

Both scientifically and Biblically, we were CREATED as plant eaters

we Have canine teeth. Why if all we are meant to eat is plants? So you are right and science is wrong?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Humans are Omnivores - Evidence - Biology Online Archive Article

Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits.

www.biologyonline.com

 

[Carl in Michigan]

we Have canine teeth. Why if all we are meant to eat is plants? So you are right and science is wrong?

No, we DONT have canine teeth

Contrary to popular belief, human canines are not for tearing and ripping meat. Instead, our ancestors used them to fight male rivals for mating rights. Over time, human species evolved smaller and smaller canines as we stopped using our teeth as weapons.Apr 5, 2021

Just because we call these "canine teeth" doesn't mean they are. They have NOTHING in common

 

[Carl in Michigan]

This is what carnivore teeth look like

 

[Coyote]

William Clifford Roberts, MD and former Editor in Chief of The American Journal of Cardiology argued in a Letter from the Editor that humans are anatomically and physiologically herbivores. Herbivores, he says, have hands or hoofs, flat teeth, long intestines, sweat to cool the body, sip water (cheeks and lips facilitate the creation of a vacuum in the mouth), and get our vitamin C from our diet. Carnivores have claws, sharp teeth, short intestines, pant to cool themselves, lap up water (because they lack cheeks and lips), and make their own vitamin C.

He leaves out a third very important grouping: omnivores. We….much like swine..occupy that category.

We lack the efficient and complex digestive apparatus of true herbivores. We lack the teeth and jaw structure necessary for masticating tough fiberous plants and the GI system to process them efficiently, just as we lack the teeth and jaw structure to crack bones.

Unlike herbivores we have trouble getting certain nutrients, such as iron from plants. How we sweat and drink water has nothing to with what we eat. For example, hippos and rhinos, both herbivores, do not sweat. Rabbits, herbivores, lap water, they do not sip.

Plants have tough cell walls made of fiber, sugar molecules bonded together, that provides protection and rigidity without using cholesterol. No mammal produces an enzyme that can digest fiber. Instead, herbivores developed a mobile jaw and flat teeth that slide past each other horizontally to chew their food and crush the cell wall, plus a long digestive tract to provide time to extract nutrients.

We humans lack that. Our jaws and teeth are weak, and unlike herbivores like cattle, rabbits, horses, deer, sheep, goats etc. we lack key adaptations that allow us to efficiently extract nutrients not normally bioavailable: we do not chew. Cud’s, have multiple stomachs or specialized sections of intestine t hat act as fermentation systems to break down cellulose.

Carnivore’s food, animal cells, have a flexible, fat-based cell membrane embedded with cholesterol to give it some rigidity. Animal cells are easily digestible but the bones in animals are not, so carnivores have strong stomach acid and a short digestive tract. No chewing is necessary beyond reducing the size of the chunks enough to swallow because there’s no cell wall. As a result, carnivores like cats and omnivorous carnivores like the bear and dog can only move their jaw up and down; their molars slide past each other vertically like a pair of scissors.

That is correct.

Animals like rabbits, cows, and humans can easily move their lower jaw side to side, and most experts agree that humans have generalized herbivorous dentition that, if anything, is best suited for eating seeds.

Seeds, meat, fruit, some greens….(look at chimps)….when Raven/Coyote brought man fire…I.e. humanity learned to cook….many more plants and meats became bioavailable.

We are omnivore.

Here’s the issue I have with your argument….we are obviously not designed to be herbivores…so WHY use that as a rationale for becoming vegan?

If you you wanted to argue it as an ethical choice, I get it.

If you want to argue we (Americans) should eat LESS meat, I get it.

But don’t try to to claim we are really herbivores when our biology screams “omnivore!”.

 

[Coyote]

There is a very good book on this subject titled, "Guns, Germs, and Steel", by Jared Diamond.

In it, he explains exactly that. Zebras are actually much more aggressive than pre-domesticated horses, and therefore harder to domesticate. Also, the production of domesticated wild plants typically precedes the domestication of animals, because a non-farming hunter-gatherer society doesn't have the fixed facilities required for large-animal domestication. Exceptions of this are typically already domesticated animals being adopted by nomadic societies. Horses by the American Indians, camels and goats by the Arabian Bedouin.

Deer have been domesticated as both food and draft animals but are typically too skittish and hard to domestic versus the auroch.

A dog IS a domesticated wolf.

I’ll look that up! This is a topic that fascinates me. One book I read was “Covenant of the Wild”, which I think says similar to what you describe. A dog is and isn’t a domesticated wolf. They diverged long ago from several different canine ancesters and structural differences such as weaker jaws were evident before true domestication. One prevailing theory is a canine ancester hung around human habitations where picking through refuse was quite nutritious and those with reduced flight/fight responses became successful at adapting to living among humans. A bit off topic, but, we are seeing this occurring even now as various wild species are becoming successful urban dwellers and losing their fear of human beings.

I’ll look up that book!

 

[Coyote]

The zebra isnt found in Europe. Africans never developed beyond the Stone Age until the Europeans made contact

That isn’t true. Cattle, dogs, donkeys and guinea fowls were all domesticated in Africa

 

[Coyote]

No we don't. Name them. See post 403

Both scientifically and Biblically, we were CREATED as plant eaters

Humans are Omnivores -- The Vegetarian Resource Group

Vegetarian nutrition information, recipes, books, and a magazine. The Vegetarian Resource Group (VRG) is a non-profit organization dedicated to educating the public on vegetarianism and the interrelated issues of health, nutrition, ecology, ethics, and world hunger. In addition to publishing the...

www.vrg.org

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

In my opinion, this cannot be justified by logical means, because if you can eat someone else's meat, then someone else can eat your meat, therefore nothing prevents cannibalism. If you accept the point of view of a meat-eater, then you should not be indignant that someone ate your child.

Not only did you put that sentence together yourself, but you actually posted it.

I give precisely the same amount of ***** to theories of flat earthers as I do to the theories of militant plant eaters.

Go ahead. Guess how many ***** I give.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

For those arguing for Satans version of "stewards" over God's creation, this is BIBLICAL STEWARDSHIP

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Humans are Omnivores -- The Vegetarian Resource Group

Vegetarian nutrition information, recipes, books, and a magazine. The Vegetarian Resource Group (VRG) is a non-profit organization dedicated to educating the public on vegetarianism and the interrelated issues of health, nutrition, ecology, ethics, and world hunger. In addition to publishing the...

www.vrg.org

People tend to lie to themselves to make themselves comfortable and to ease their conscience

 

[Coyote]

People tend to lie to themselves to make themselves comfortable and to ease their conscience

Ok…so…you can’t refute it.

 

[Coyote]

For those arguing for Satans version of "stewards" over God's creation, this is BIBLICAL STEWARDSHIP

View attachment 546277

This is any good Stewardship of Earth, whether biblical or Gaia…

but so is fighting climate change, pollution, environmental degradation…