Is Caitlin Jenner a lesbian?

[gallantwarrior]

I refer the confused to ~ Gender Identity Vs. Sexual Orientation Gender Blog by Darlene Tando LCSW

"Gender identity refers to what gender your brain is, who you are, and how you want others to see you. What gender you identify with is going to impact many areas of your life, if not all. It will affect how you are seen in society, how others respond to you, how you are addressed, expectations for your behavior, where you go to the bathroom, your role in your family, and much more.

Sexual orientation refers to who you are attracted to, who you would like to receive romantic attention/affection from, and who you would like to be sexually intimate with. I’d even like to say sexual orientation not only refers to the sex (anatomy) one is attracted to, but also the gender. Certainly, anatomy plays a big part in sexual relationships, but the gender of the individual is likely what captures your attention in the first place. I would also suggest that gender is more of a factor in dating and relationships than one’s anatomy."

Yes, there is something seriously wrong with these individuals. They need help, not cosmetic surgery because cosmetic surgery is NOT going to make them into women or men. Not to mention it is extremely risky, as is any surgery with general anesthetics. It is overall very unhealthy.

Hey, where did you study psychology at? I did like 2 years worth at the local college back in the 90s. I basically decided I don't have a mental issue, just a gender identity misfire - kind of makes sense that I'm odd wired as I have synaesthesia too (that's crossed senses, like I can feel sounds and colors and I hear touch and taste. My keyboard literally sings to me while I'm typing; I oft blame it for my wall-o-texts cause it has a pretty "voice." I also have rainbow sex, in every sense of the word - bu dum cha )

Or were you basing your "professional" opinion on "its icky"?

You are not the only one here who focused on psychological studies. Such individuals need help, not surgery. But that concept is not PC, is it? People who identify as the opposite gender are confused, at best. But that doesn't get much press, does it?

 

[gallantwarrior]

I was pondering and I think maybe I can help explain gender identity a bit better.

Ya know how some folks get plastic surgery because the way they look is having a negative impact on their life? Or they buy diet pills, get their stomach stapled, or w/e because they don't like the looks they get when they are overweight? That is akin to Gender Identity, which like the above things, has absolutely /nothing/ to do with what those people find attractive on a mate. AKA getting a chin tuck has nothing to do with if you find men or women attractive (which would be ones sexual orientation.)

So it makes perfect sense to have someone who wants a sex change operation to become a woman, because they /feel/ like a woman inside, yet they find women attractive.

A typical straight male is:
Gender Identity: Male (non-op)
Sexual Orientation: Heterosexual

Jenner [might be]:
Gender Identity: Female (op/pre-op)
Sexual Orientation: Lesbian (Though I believe s/he's actually bisexual and just happens to have a transMF girlfriend at the time)

Mine would be:
Gender Identity: Male (non-op)
Sexual Orientation: Bisexual

Dude, I didn't like the way is looked/felt, so I lost 50 lbs and quit eating McDonalds (etc). Amazing how skipping the super-sized fries changes your waistline. I'm down 50 lbs and going. Gender identity? Yeah, that's bullshit. Men and women are prey to the PC perception of appearance.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I refer the confused to ~ Gender Identity Vs. Sexual Orientation Gender Blog by Darlene Tando LCSW

"Gender identity refers to what gender your brain is, who you are, and how you want others to see you. What gender you identify with is going to impact many areas of your life, if not all. It will affect how you are seen in society, how others respond to you, how you are addressed, expectations for your behavior, where you go to the bathroom, your role in your family, and much more.

Sexual orientation refers to who you are attracted to, who you would like to receive romantic attention/affection from, and who you would like to be sexually intimate with. I’d even like to say sexual orientation not only refers to the sex (anatomy) one is attracted to, but also the gender. Certainly, anatomy plays a big part in sexual relationships, but the gender of the individual is likely what captures your attention in the first place. I would also suggest that gender is more of a factor in dating and relationships than one’s anatomy."

Yes, there is something seriously wrong with these individuals. They need help, not cosmetic surgery because cosmetic surgery is NOT going to make them into women or men. Not to mention it is extremely risky, as is any surgery with general anesthetics. It is overall very unhealthy.

Hey, where did you study psychology at? I did like 2 years worth at the local college back in the 90s. I basically decided I don't have a mental issue, just a gender identity misfire - kind of makes sense that I'm odd wired as I have synaesthesia too (that's crossed senses, like I can feel sounds and colors and I hear touch and taste. My keyboard literally sings to me while I'm typing; I oft blame it for my wall-o-texts cause it has a pretty "voice." I also have rainbow sex, in every sense of the word - bu dum cha )

Or were you basing your "professional" opinion on "its icky"?

I took some classes in college too. I'm not degreed, but I can definitely spot a malfunction when I see one. It's not rocket science after all. I don't care about how you identify yourself. I stick to the facts. And you are biologically and anatomically still whatever it was you were at birth. Sorry, but your pseudo psychiatry not based in reality is no excuse for mutilating people who have some serious issues, by convincing them that this will cure them or make them into the opposite sex. It does not. If you were born a male, you have a vas deferens, you have a prostate, you have a completely different bone structure, DNA and hormonal makeup. Those are just facts. I happen to also have a background in the medical field, so I am quite familiar with anatomy and biology that makes the differences between the sexes.

So spot on,Chris!

 

[Asclepias]

I refer the confused to ~ Gender Identity Vs. Sexual Orientation Gender Blog by Darlene Tando LCSW

"Gender identity refers to what gender your brain is, who you are, and how you want others to see you. What gender you identify with is going to impact many areas of your life, if not all. It will affect how you are seen in society, how others respond to you, how you are addressed, expectations for your behavior, where you go to the bathroom, your role in your family, and much more.

Sexual orientation refers to who you are attracted to, who you would like to receive romantic attention/affection from, and who you would like to be sexually intimate with. I’d even like to say sexual orientation not only refers to the sex (anatomy) one is attracted to, but also the gender. Certainly, anatomy plays a big part in sexual relationships, but the gender of the individual is likely what captures your attention in the first place. I would also suggest that gender is more of a factor in dating and relationships than one’s anatomy."

Yes, there is something seriously wrong with these individuals. They need help, not cosmetic surgery because cosmetic surgery is NOT going to make them into women or men. Not to mention it is extremely risky, as is any surgery with general anesthetics. It is overall very unhealthy.

Hey, where did you study psychology at? I did like 2 years worth at the local college back in the 90s. I basically decided I don't have a mental issue, just a gender identity misfire - kind of makes sense that I'm odd wired as I have synaesthesia too (that's crossed senses, like I can feel sounds and colors and I hear touch and taste. My keyboard literally sings to me while I'm typing; I oft blame it for my wall-o-texts cause it has a pretty "voice." I also have rainbow sex, in every sense of the word - bu dum cha )

Or were you basing your "professional" opinion on "its icky"?

You are not the only one here who focused on psychological studies. Such individuals need help, not surgery. But that concept is not PC, is it? People who identify as the opposite gender are confused, at best. But that doesn't get much press, does it?

You may be confused but they arent.

 

[gallantwarrior]

At this point in time, Bruce is nothing but an attention whore who likes to dress up as a woman.

Can I give you multiple agrees?

 

[gallantwarrior]

I refer the confused to ~ Gender Identity Vs. Sexual Orientation Gender Blog by Darlene Tando LCSW

"Gender identity refers to what gender your brain is, who you are, and how you want others to see you. What gender you identify with is going to impact many areas of your life, if not all. It will affect how you are seen in society, how others respond to you, how you are addressed, expectations for your behavior, where you go to the bathroom, your role in your family, and much more.

Sexual orientation refers to who you are attracted to, who you would like to receive romantic attention/affection from, and who you would like to be sexually intimate with. I’d even like to say sexual orientation not only refers to the sex (anatomy) one is attracted to, but also the gender. Certainly, anatomy plays a big part in sexual relationships, but the gender of the individual is likely what captures your attention in the first place. I would also suggest that gender is more of a factor in dating and relationships than one’s anatomy."

Yes, there is something seriously wrong with these individuals. They need help, not cosmetic surgery because cosmetic surgery is NOT going to make them into women or men. Not to mention it is extremely risky, as is any surgery with general anesthetics. It is overall very unhealthy.

Hey, where did you study psychology at? I did like 2 years worth at the local college back in the 90s. I basically decided I don't have a mental issue, just a gender identity misfire - kind of makes sense that I'm odd wired as I have synaesthesia too (that's crossed senses, like I can feel sounds and colors and I hear touch and taste. My keyboard literally sings to me while I'm typing; I oft blame it for my wall-o-texts cause it has a pretty "voice." I also have rainbow sex, in every sense of the word - bu dum cha )

Or were you basing your "professional" opinion on "its icky"?

I took some classes in college too. I'm not degreed, but I can definitely spot a malfunction when I see one. It's not rocket science after all. I don't care about how you identify yourself. I stick to the facts. And you are biologically and anatomically still whatever it was you were at birth. Sorry, but your pseudo psychiatry not based in reality is no excuse for mutilating people who have some serious issues, by convincing them that this will cure them or make them into the opposite sex. It does not. If you were born a male, you have a vas deferens, you have a prostate, you have a completely different bone structure, DNA and hormonal makeup. Those are just facts. I happen to also have a background in the medical field, so I am quite familiar with anatomy and biology that makes the differences between the sexes.

Well it's clear you didn't read the link:

"If you can’t remember thinking about your gender as a child, it’s likely because your assigned gender matched with your natal* sex. (*Natal meaning “of, relating to, or present at birth; associated with one’s birth”. In this blog when I say “natal male” or “natal female” it is referring to one’s anatomy, or sex, present at birth.)"

I don't know what Tran's you've been talking to for your data here, but /not a single one/ I know doesn't understand their /birth/ gender as it physically was - that's why they want sex change operations... I kind of have the feeling you didn't even bother reading the short description I cited, or if you did, you're not real bright when it comes to connecting dots in how a trans wishes to be treated by others and fitting the gender identity they /feel/ they are, despite your claimed classes in "psychology". One of the of the "basics," and we're taking pre-Psych 101, is that psychology is not the same thing as anatomy...

However, lets give you another shot, this time actually engage your supposed "education" on psychology hmm?

How is ones [mental] "gender identity" any different, on a psychological level, from one being an "uncomfortable" introvert? And in such a comparison of ones "gender identity" vs being an introvert, how is it /mentally ill/, or even wrong, for said introvert to seek to remedy, through various methods, to lessen or remove the "uncomfortable feeling" of being thusly introverted?


~ For the record, I don't think parents should be letting kids go through sex change surgery, I do not feel that children are emotionally mature enough to make that decision so it needs to be made after the child has mentally matured.

However, I am a bit on the fence if medications to halt or delay the onset of the physiological changes of puberty should be given - on the one hand it can lessen a lot of emotional turmoil for the child, on the other, the typical growth spurt (height, etc.) associated with puberty could be delayed or eliminated, and ultimately the whole process is mostly irrelevant if a child stays the course of having a sex change operation into adulthood - the actual operation would be necessary either way.

I am similarly a bit on the fence if allowing a male born child to dress as a girl, or vice versa, is ultimately a benefit or a might actually be harm in a child's emotional experience/growth; not that I think any school or government should have /any/ say in that matter, merely what advice doctors should give the parents.

liberals don't believe biology has anything at all to do with gender identity; therefore the fact that his new crush was born a man cannot be used by liberals to argue that Jenner is bisexual.

It is very difficult for aa liberal to explain why Jenner is not a lesbian in their logic.

I fixed that for you, though I'm not a liberal.

Though in the end, it appears that Jenner actually describes him/herself as asexual - meaning s/he lacks sexual attraction to /either/ sex.

When I was a child, the last thing I was thinking of was whether I was feeling like a "girl" or a "boy". Things were pretty clear cut and I suffered no confusion.

 

[Asclepias]

I refer the confused to ~ Gender Identity Vs. Sexual Orientation Gender Blog by Darlene Tando LCSW

"Gender identity refers to what gender your brain is, who you are, and how you want others to see you. What gender you identify with is going to impact many areas of your life, if not all. It will affect how you are seen in society, how others respond to you, how you are addressed, expectations for your behavior, where you go to the bathroom, your role in your family, and much more.

Sexual orientation refers to who you are attracted to, who you would like to receive romantic attention/affection from, and who you would like to be sexually intimate with. I’d even like to say sexual orientation not only refers to the sex (anatomy) one is attracted to, but also the gender. Certainly, anatomy plays a big part in sexual relationships, but the gender of the individual is likely what captures your attention in the first place. I would also suggest that gender is more of a factor in dating and relationships than one’s anatomy."

Yes, there is something seriously wrong with these individuals. They need help, not cosmetic surgery because cosmetic surgery is NOT going to make them into women or men. Not to mention it is extremely risky, as is any surgery with general anesthetics. It is overall very unhealthy.

Hey, where did you study psychology at? I did like 2 years worth at the local college back in the 90s. I basically decided I don't have a mental issue, just a gender identity misfire - kind of makes sense that I'm odd wired as I have synaesthesia too (that's crossed senses, like I can feel sounds and colors and I hear touch and taste. My keyboard literally sings to me while I'm typing; I oft blame it for my wall-o-texts cause it has a pretty "voice." I also have rainbow sex, in every sense of the word - bu dum cha )

Or were you basing your "professional" opinion on "its icky"?

I took some classes in college too. I'm not degreed, but I can definitely spot a malfunction when I see one. It's not rocket science after all. I don't care about how you identify yourself. I stick to the facts. And you are biologically and anatomically still whatever it was you were at birth. Sorry, but your pseudo psychiatry not based in reality is no excuse for mutilating people who have some serious issues, by convincing them that this will cure them or make them into the opposite sex. It does not. If you were born a male, you have a vas deferens, you have a prostate, you have a completely different bone structure, DNA and hormonal makeup. Those are just facts. I happen to also have a background in the medical field, so I am quite familiar with anatomy and biology that makes the differences between the sexes.

Well it's clear you didn't read the link:

"If you can’t remember thinking about your gender as a child, it’s likely because your assigned gender matched with your natal* sex. (*Natal meaning “of, relating to, or present at birth; associated with one’s birth”. In this blog when I say “natal male” or “natal female” it is referring to one’s anatomy, or sex, present at birth.)"

I don't know what Tran's you've been talking to for your data here, but /not a single one/ I know doesn't understand their /birth/ gender as it physically was - that's why they want sex change operations... I kind of have the feeling you didn't even bother reading the short description I cited, or if you did, you're not real bright when it comes to connecting dots in how a trans wishes to be treated by others and fitting the gender identity they /feel/ they are, despite your claimed classes in "psychology". One of the of the "basics," and we're taking pre-Psych 101, is that psychology is not the same thing as anatomy...

However, lets give you another shot, this time actually engage your supposed "education" on psychology hmm?

How is ones [mental] "gender identity" any different, on a psychological level, from one being an "uncomfortable" introvert? And in such a comparison of ones "gender identity" vs being an introvert, how is it /mentally ill/, or even wrong, for said introvert to seek to remedy, through various methods, to lessen or remove the "uncomfortable feeling" of being thusly introverted?


~ For the record, I don't think parents should be letting kids go through sex change surgery, I do not feel that children are emotionally mature enough to make that decision so it needs to be made after the child has mentally matured.

However, I am a bit on the fence if medications to halt or delay the onset of the physiological changes of puberty should be given - on the one hand it can lessen a lot of emotional turmoil for the child, on the other, the typical growth spurt (height, etc.) associated with puberty could be delayed or eliminated, and ultimately the whole process is mostly irrelevant if a child stays the course of having a sex change operation into adulthood - the actual operation would be necessary either way.

I am similarly a bit on the fence if allowing a male born child to dress as a girl, or vice versa, is ultimately a benefit or a might actually be harm in a child's emotional experience/growth; not that I think any school or government should have /any/ say in that matter, merely what advice doctors should give the parents.

liberals don't believe biology has anything at all to do with gender identity; therefore the fact that his new crush was born a man cannot be used by liberals to argue that Jenner is bisexual.

It is very difficult for aa liberal to explain why Jenner is not a lesbian in their logic.

I fixed that for you, though I'm not a liberal.

Though in the end, it appears that Jenner actually describes him/herself as asexual - meaning s/he lacks sexual attraction to /either/ sex.

When I was a child, the last thing I was thinking of was whether I was feeling like a "girl" or a "boy". Things were pretty clear cut and I suffered no confusion.

Thanks for sharing but you arent Caitlyn. What you felt doesnt apply to everyone else. You cant even prove its "normal".

 

[gallantwarrior]

So, in your "connections" is it /typical/ for trans-inclined children to cross dress at school then? Is that California?

In any event, so basically we agree to a point.

And what's the effective post-op suicide rate difference of folks who get cosmetic surgery?

Children will do what is encouraged for them to do, totally in order to be "accepted"... whether encouraged by fellow students, or more likely, by their PC motivated indoctrinators.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Yes, there is something seriously wrong with these individuals. They need help, not cosmetic surgery because cosmetic surgery is NOT going to make them into women or men. Not to mention it is extremely risky, as is any surgery with general anesthetics. It is overall very unhealthy.

Hey, where did you study psychology at? I did like 2 years worth at the local college back in the 90s. I basically decided I don't have a mental issue, just a gender identity misfire - kind of makes sense that I'm odd wired as I have synaesthesia too (that's crossed senses, like I can feel sounds and colors and I hear touch and taste. My keyboard literally sings to me while I'm typing; I oft blame it for my wall-o-texts cause it has a pretty "voice." I also have rainbow sex, in every sense of the word - bu dum cha )

Or were you basing your "professional" opinion on "its icky"?

I took some classes in college too. I'm not degreed, but I can definitely spot a malfunction when I see one. It's not rocket science after all. I don't care about how you identify yourself. I stick to the facts. And you are biologically and anatomically still whatever it was you were at birth. Sorry, but your pseudo psychiatry not based in reality is no excuse for mutilating people who have some serious issues, by convincing them that this will cure them or make them into the opposite sex. It does not. If you were born a male, you have a vas deferens, you have a prostate, you have a completely different bone structure, DNA and hormonal makeup. Those are just facts. I happen to also have a background in the medical field, so I am quite familiar with anatomy and biology that makes the differences between the sexes.

Well it's clear you didn't read the link:

"If you can’t remember thinking about your gender as a child, it’s likely because your assigned gender matched with your natal* sex. (*Natal meaning “of, relating to, or present at birth; associated with one’s birth”. In this blog when I say “natal male” or “natal female” it is referring to one’s anatomy, or sex, present at birth.)"

I don't know what Tran's you've been talking to for your data here, but /not a single one/ I know doesn't understand their /birth/ gender as it physically was - that's why they want sex change operations... I kind of have the feeling you didn't even bother reading the short description I cited, or if you did, you're not real bright when it comes to connecting dots in how a trans wishes to be treated by others and fitting the gender identity they /feel/ they are, despite your claimed classes in "psychology". One of the of the "basics," and we're taking pre-Psych 101, is that psychology is not the same thing as anatomy...

However, lets give you another shot, this time actually engage your supposed "education" on psychology hmm?

How is ones [mental] "gender identity" any different, on a psychological level, from one being an "uncomfortable" introvert? And in such a comparison of ones "gender identity" vs being an introvert, how is it /mentally ill/, or even wrong, for said introvert to seek to remedy, through various methods, to lessen or remove the "uncomfortable feeling" of being thusly introverted?


~ For the record, I don't think parents should be letting kids go through sex change surgery, I do not feel that children are emotionally mature enough to make that decision so it needs to be made after the child has mentally matured.

However, I am a bit on the fence if medications to halt or delay the onset of the physiological changes of puberty should be given - on the one hand it can lessen a lot of emotional turmoil for the child, on the other, the typical growth spurt (height, etc.) associated with puberty could be delayed or eliminated, and ultimately the whole process is mostly irrelevant if a child stays the course of having a sex change operation into adulthood - the actual operation would be necessary either way.

I am similarly a bit on the fence if allowing a male born child to dress as a girl, or vice versa, is ultimately a benefit or a might actually be harm in a child's emotional experience/growth; not that I think any school or government should have /any/ say in that matter, merely what advice doctors should give the parents.

liberals don't believe biology has anything at all to do with gender identity; therefore the fact that his new crush was born a man cannot be used by liberals to argue that Jenner is bisexual.

It is very difficult for aa liberal to explain why Jenner is not a lesbian in their logic.

I fixed that for you, though I'm not a liberal.

Though in the end, it appears that Jenner actually describes him/herself as asexual - meaning s/he lacks sexual attraction to /either/ sex.

When I was a child, the last thing I was thinking of was whether I was feeling like a "girl" or a "boy". Things were pretty clear cut and I suffered no confusion.

Thanks for sharing but you arent Caitlyn. What you felt doesnt apply to everyone else. You cant even prove its "normal".

No, thankfully, I am not Cailyn. I am happy and satisfied in the skin Nature provided me. But I do understand that it is not (so sadly, unfortunately) abnormal.

 

[boedicca]

Caitlin Jenner is reportedly attracted to a transgender man-to-woman person . Should we start referring to him as a lesbian?
Caitlyn Jenner dating fellow transgender woman Candis Cayne after meeting at gay pride - 3am Mirror Online

I believe the proper term is Trans Lesbian as opposed to CIS Lesbian or whatever.

I do know a Former Man who is now a Trans Woman and has decided to that S/He is a Lesbian. The Ex-wife still doesn't want to have said person back as a partner as she herself is not a Lesbian, CIS-Trans-Or-Otherwise.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I believe the proper term is Trans Lesbian as opposed to CIS Lesbian or whatever.

I do know a Former Man who is now a Trans Woman and has decided to that S/He is a Lesbian. The Ex-wife still doesn't want to have said person back as a partner as she herself is not a Lesbian, CIS-Trans-Or-Otherwise.

Um . . . what?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Bruce Jenner is male, will always be male no matter how much surgery he has or hormones he takes. Same with Chastity Bono. "Feeling" you are one gender in your head while in reality being the opposite gender is not normal and should not be treated as normal. These people need psychiatric help, not surgery.

And another thing . . . if they feel they are one gender in their head and it does not match the gender that their body is, why in the world would chopping off/adding things/screwing your body up via surgery be the route to try and fix the problem? Wouldn't leaving the body as-is and tackling the mental disorder be a safer, less invasive route? Of course it would.

Trans-whatever is abnormal and we should immediately stop treating these people as normal and get them the mental/therapy/whatever help they need.

 

[Silhouette]

Bruce Jenner is male, will always be male no matter how much surgery he has or hormones he takes. Same with Chastity Bono. "Feeling" you are one gender in your head while in reality being the opposite gender is not normal and should not be treated as normal. These people need psychiatric help, not surgery.

And another thing . . . if they feel they are one gender in their head and it does not match the gender that their body is, why in the world would chopping off/adding things/screwing your body up via surgery be the route to try and fix the problem? Wouldn't leaving the body as-is and tackling the mental disorder be a safer, less invasive route? Of course it would.

Trans-whatever is abnormal and we should immediately stop treating these people as normal and get them the mental/therapy/whatever help they need.

You know, being like 1/8 or 1/16th Sioux...depending on which member of the family is tracing the lineage at the time...the thought occured to me: "how long will it be before an indian child destined to be a shaman animal-spirit be suing for rights as a "Eagle-American". Perhaps roosts will have to be installed in public areas in order to accomodate those who factually believe they are not merely human, but also animal spirit as well.

I myself was certain as a child that because I could fly in dreams, I was a bird. I mean, if you interviewed me at the time I would start to cry if you told me I was not a bird. And finally when my parents found me on the roof with cardboard wings strapped to my arms, reality's rubber hit the road. My world was crushed. But you know what? I got over it with the proper handling and instruction. Now I still fly in my dreams but I don't insist that my dreams or fantasies have reality bend to their whims. I am not God and I was born human.

 

[emilynghiem]

Who told you it was a delusion? People need to get something straight. You dont define reality for anyone but yourself. If you want to call her a man you are free to do so as long as you dont expect her to agree.

How do you know the forensic scientists will determine she is a male? By the time they find her the definition may have changed. You see this is all defined by labels parading as reality.

Umm, sorry but reality is REAL. Hence REAL-ITY.

How do I know? Lol. Because bone structure is completely different in a man than in a woman. Also, like I told you, internal organs. Derp.

Life lesson here. Reality is defined and labeled. Part of our human attempt to control our world.. If the definition of man changes so will what people call men and women.

Um, no, men cannot be women. Women cannot be men. It is biologically impossible to change from a man to a woman and vice versa. A woman is more than mutilated genitals, fake breasts, a shit ton of cosmetic surgery and makeup. There are many differences in skin texture, the larynx, the internal organs. . . we are generally softer, less sweaty and less smelly too; pathological factors too, for just a few more examples. He is not a woman and will never be a woman.

I'm sorry you are having a hard time dealing with labels and calling them reality.

Labels do NOT equal reality. Sorry to disappoint you. If one is born with the plumbing for a "male", one is, and always will be "male" (or female), regardless of the amount of self-mutilation one chooses to submit oneself to.

Dear gallantwarrior

I don't think I am defined by being born in a Vietnamese body to two Vietnamese Parents.
My genetics make me 100% Vietnamese. Science and genes and DNA will tell you I am Vietnamese by birth.
When I register for bone marrow donation, I will be matched to Vietnamese first, then other Asian by science.

But I don't speak the language, don't follow the culture or the traditions.
I have to work to relate to the Vietnamese, with my family background being an advantage in how
much other people work with me, but it doesn't give me some magic shortcut to work with them.
I have to work at it like my American friends, with some advantage that I have more years of experience
and exposure.

But just being born physically Vietnamese does not make me that culture. I inherit a lot from my parents,
but if I don't develop and foster it, then I don't have that at my disposal or in my vocabulary.

My friends will tell you my personality and culture is very very Texan, very Southern,
very Conservative. None of this is in my genes.

There is NOTHING in my genetics that would tie me to the European Founding Fathers
and American Constitutionalism that came through Europe.

My genetics are NOT European, but my language, thinking perceptions and personality are definitely shaped in that culture. I have Asian spiritual and cultural values mixed in there, but my predominant persona is definitely American. Even though all my genetics will tell you I am full blooded Asian / Vietnamese.

 

[emilynghiem]

Bruce Jenner is male, will always be male no matter how much surgery he has or hormones he takes. Same with Chastity Bono. "Feeling" you are one gender in your head while in reality being the opposite gender is not normal and should not be treated as normal. These people need psychiatric help, not surgery.

And another thing . . . if they feel they are one gender in their head and it does not match the gender that their body is, why in the world would chopping off/adding things/screwing your body up via surgery be the route to try and fix the problem? Wouldn't leaving the body as-is and tackling the mental disorder be a safer, less invasive route? Of course it would.

Trans-whatever is abnormal and we should immediately stop treating these people as normal and get them the mental/therapy/whatever help they need.

Dear Zoom-boing
Not all cases are the same. Some people are mixed up and need counseling and that's it.
I met someone whose father transitioned to female, and thought he needed to also. But after deep spiritual healing prayer, counseling and working through it, those impulses went away and he decided he was okay as is. He did not follow in his father's footsteps, but needed to go through that process to decide for himself. [my friend who prayed for him during one crisis attack said she felt the spirit of a female tormenting this young man, at the same time she was also asked to pray for a female who was tormented by a male spirit. And after praying for both of them, she felt the spirits "switched places," and the male spirit went to the man and the female spirit went to the woman, and both got rid of the confusion that was tormenting them into thinking they were the other gender.]

Another friend was the opposite. Born male but resented it, and never felt honest or at ease; but later came to terms with being a female personality, and went all out to change her physical body to be female.

These two cases cannot be compared.

Look at the comedy actor who was a practicing doctor and then quit and went into comedy, and is highly successful. Other doctors don't do that. Nor do other comedians start off as doctors. Each path is different.

Just because one person takes one path in life, doesn't mean that's true for others.

I am probably more like you, and prefer people go through counseling and make sure before they change anything permanently. My friend who went through the changes decided that living in that body was like living in an apartment, house or temple. And decorating it any way you want to be happy in that house.

You are right, there are some people who remain unsatisfied no matter how nice they fix up their house.
They have some other issue that changing the house is not going to fix.

But someone else may just need to do a few renovations and be perfectly fine in that house.
It really depends on the person, their path and process in life. I've never seen two paths that were the same.
Have you?

 

[Roudy]

Bottom line is the guy is a fraud. He hasn't removed his penis, and doesn't have plans to. Doesn't take much "courage" to take a bunch of hormones, have breast implant surgery, and dress up like a woman.

Bruce Jenner to KEEP his penis in sex change as more details emerge from Diane Sawyer interview - 3am Mirror Online

VIDEO KUWTK Bruce Jenner Removing Penis Reveals He Has No Plans Yet - Hollywood Life

Bruce Jenner Hasn t Made an Appointment to Remove His Penis - Us Weekly

 

[Papageorgio]

Bruce is still a guy, that wants to dress as a woman who is romantically involved with another guy. That is pretty much it. It isn't genetics, it is pure desire and choice. Not courageous.

 

[emilynghiem]

Bottom line is the guy is a fraud. He hasn't removed his penis, and doesn't have plans to. Doesn't take much "courage" to take a bunch of hormones, have breast implant surgery, and dress up like a woman.

Bruce Jenner to KEEP his penis in sex change as more details emerge from Diane Sawyer interview - 3am Mirror Online

VIDEO KUWTK Bruce Jenner Removing Penis Reveals He Has No Plans Yet - Hollywood Life

Bruce Jenner Hasn t Made an Appointment to Remove His Penis - Us Weekly

Sorry Roudy
I don't know any man who would do all that just for ego, marketing and attention.
Has to be some kind of drive in there to go that far.

Maybe I could imagine a non-trans man going through this extent of surgery to
HIDE identities in case of murder or some other criminal history.

But no, sorry. If you can show me a case of a non-transgender person doing all that
I might be convinced. The only people I have ever heard of going through this much trouble and trauma
is if they really are transgender and this is the only avenue of relief they can find for feeling so trapped.

 

[Roudy]

I appreciate your viewpoint. There are people who are born with a penis and a vagina, believe it or not. It's totally understandable in that case. But this guy is just another psychologically disturbed individual that is being glorified by the politically correct media, in my opinion.

 

[emilynghiem]

I appreciate your viewpoint. There are people who are born with a penis and a vagina, believe it or not. It's totally understandable in that case. But this guy is just another psychologically disturbed individual that is being glorified by the politically correct media, in my opinion.

Boy, that is some powerful influence the media has then!!
If you can convince a male to go through breast and facial surgery just for the attention and politics.

When you bring up "turning a man gay" to any straight man,
you KNOW the response you get. The men I know would rather die or kill someone first before going there.

The liberal media must be more powerful than I previously imagined!