Is belief an intentional act?

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Before that, I was Catholic but did not understand why.

you were worshipping a virgin from 2000 years ago, but didn't know why? Weird!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I was raised in a family which was Christian and I simply assumed, as a young child, that that is what I was. But when I finally reached an age where I was able to understand what that meant it was clear to me that I was not a Christian. Despite being talked to by many, many people and reading the Bible cover to cover, I have never believed.

However, the first time I read a book on Buddhism, I understand immediately that that was what I believed. Not necessarily all of the details, but the gist of it. I don't mean to say I read and said to myself, "This is cool, I think I'll believe this." I just realized this was the name of what I already believed without ever coming across it before. I never decided to believe, I just did.

So the question to me is whether or not we actually have any control over belief. Has anyone actually sat down and decided that they were going to suddenly start believing that which they did not believe before?

humans are brainwashed when they are kids, by religion

Well, we all have to believe something. Interesting you believe what is objectively untrue.

Do you believe Buddha was born through a slit in his mother's side?

 

[zaangalewa]

... Have you ever changed your mind? Yes? Then belief can be intentional or unintentional.

Oh by the way: You can breathe intentionally and unintentionally - but you have always to breathe. One of the most difficult things is it to watch the own unintentional way how to breathe intentionally - but without influence of the own intentions to the way how to breathe.

 

[diver52]

I was raised in a family which was Christian and I simply assumed, as a young child, that that is what I was. But when I finally reached an age where I was able to understand what that meant it was clear to me that I was not a Christian. Despite being talked to by many, many people and reading the Bible cover to cover, I have never believed.

However, the first time I read a book on Buddhism, I understand immediately that that was what I believed. Not necessarily all of the details, but the gist of it. I don't mean to say I read and said to myself, "This is cool, I think I'll believe this." I just realized this was the name of what I already believed without ever coming across it before. I never decided to believe, I just did.

So the question to me is whether or not we actually have any control over belief. Has anyone actually sat down and decided that they were going to suddenly start believing that which they did not believe before?

humans are brainwashed when they are kids, by religion

Well, we all have to believe something. Interesting you believe what is objectively untrue.

Do you believe Buddha was born through a slit in his mother's side?

No.

 

[diver52]

I was raised in a family which was Christian and I simply assumed, as a young child, that that is what I was. But when I finally reached an age where I was able to understand what that meant it was clear to me that I was not a Christian. Despite being talked to by many, many people and reading the Bible cover to cover, I have never believed.

However, the first time I read a book on Buddhism, I understand immediately that that was what I believed. Not necessarily all of the details, but the gist of it. I don't mean to say I read and said to myself, "This is cool, I think I'll believe this." I just realized this was the name of what I already believed without ever coming across it before. I never decided to believe, I just did.

So the question to me is whether or not we actually have any control over belief. Has anyone actually sat down and decided that they were going to suddenly start believing that which they did not believe before?

Have you ever changed your mind? Yes? Then belief can be intentional or unintentional.

Have I ever changed my mind? Many times. But in this context we are talking about religious beliefs, which isn't quite the same thing as to whether this brand of soup is better than that brand of soup. I still think you can't just decide to believe in a god or not believe in a god. You can certainly justify the belief you have, but the basic belief itself doesn't seem to be in our control.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I was raised in a family which was Christian and I simply assumed, as a young child, that that is what I was. But when I finally reached an age where I was able to understand what that meant it was clear to me that I was not a Christian. Despite being talked to by many, many people and reading the Bible cover to cover, I have never believed.

However, the first time I read a book on Buddhism, I understand immediately that that was what I believed. Not necessarily all of the details, but the gist of it. I don't mean to say I read and said to myself, "This is cool, I think I'll believe this." I just realized this was the name of what I already believed without ever coming across it before. I never decided to believe, I just did.

So the question to me is whether or not we actually have any control over belief. Has anyone actually sat down and decided that they were going to suddenly start believing that which they did not believe before?

humans are brainwashed when they are kids, by religion

Well, we all have to believe something. Interesting you believe what is objectively untrue.

Do you believe Buddha was born through a slit in his mother's side?

No.

Okay.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Have I ever changed my mind? Many times. But in this context we are talking about religious beliefs, which isn't quite the same thing as to whether this brand of soup is better than that brand of soup.

nevertheless, people do change religions. And surely you admit that this can sometimes not be because something they always believed was told to them, but rather theyvwere influenced by new information.

 

[diver52]

Have I ever changed my mind? Many times. But in this context we are talking about religious beliefs, which isn't quite the same thing as to whether this brand of soup is better than that brand of soup.

nevertheless, people do change religions. And surely you admit that this can sometimes not be because something they always believed was told to them, but rather theyvwere influenced by new information.

Indeed they do and I will admit that outside influences are quite often involved. I believe I love my wife and then I discover she is having an affair and suddenly I no longer believe I love her. (That's just an example, mind you, not getting something off my chest.) But if the change is the result of outside influences, is it really an internal decision or just a modification of our beliefs to those influences?

Let me try to relate this in terms of Pascal's wager. The wager implies that the rational decision is to believe in God, since if God exists it is to your benefit and if not there are no consequences. That is a rational point of view, but I don't believe I have ever met anyone who was persuaded by it. Belief seems to be a much deeper psychological thing and is pretty much unaffected by rational thought. It can be justified by rational thought, but is not actually directed by it.

At least, that is how I see it. I fully admit I could be utterly wrong. The only thoughts I can read are my own and I'm not always successful with that.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

But if the change is the result of outside influences, is it really an internal decision or just a modification of our beliefs to those influences?

If you didn't believe that a godbaby turned water into wine and rose from the dead and never even considered either idea, and now you do after reading the bible...what do you think?

 

[diver52]

But if the change is the result of outside influences, is it really an internal decision or just a modification of our beliefs to those influences?

If you didn't believe that a godbaby turned water into wine and rose from the dead and never even considered either idea, and now you do after reading the bible...what do you think?

If I ever met someone who did, then I would certainly have to rethink my position. I just haven't.

 

[foggedinn]

A question that made me think. I am aware of my own faith journey and still the best I can come up with is "I don't know".
A second grade teacher told my class that if we wanted to learn how to read, we had to read, and we should read good books and newspapers. I went to church every Sunday and reasoning as a child reasons, I reasoned that the Good Book is probably a good book. Before I was nine, I had read the OT. I fell in love with the Word. I didn't read the NT until I was sixteen and all I wanted to do was argue with Paul. At 33, I was falsely accused by men who had built an absolutely damming, open and shut, airtight false case against me and was well on my way to spending the rest of my life in prison. I called on the Name of the Lord. He sent me words that have never been overcome and never will be. At this point in my faith journey, I believe and can't imagine anything that would change my mind.

 

[zaangalewa]

Everything which occurs, occurs through the grace of God.

Does that include 9/11 and the Holocaust? ...

Let me answer here in the name of the Holocaust victims of my own family with "yes" for the Holocaust. Yes - also the Holocaust was necessary in this best of all possible worlds here. If today a Holocaust - against whomever - should come again, no one had any chance to survive any longer. The Jews payed this highest price - and gods grace is with them.

And let me answer as a German for "9/11". Germany was a complete country down to the ground after world war 2. But we started to bring us back from this absolute disaster to the light. And you? Two bombs and you started to destroy yourselve. For what died all the millions of people, which the USA had murdered in their wars? The USA is so damned rich that everyone could live like a king and the country could be like a paradise on Earth - and what is the USA? A nation full of hate and weapons, a nation full of alcohol and drugs, an nation of mass-murder in wars and mass-muder of unborn babies, a nation without any scruple, moral and love to the truth ... even the system of juistice is more a system of injustice in the USA including an overflow of prisons and prisoners ... what for heavens sake are you fighting for, destroyer of the western world? Not for the survival of the world and not for all known life in the universe, as it looks like.

 

[ding]

Everything which occurs, occurs through the grace of God.

Does that include 9/11 and the Holocaust? ...

Let me answer here in the name of the Holocaust victims of my own family witzh "yes" for the Holocaust. Yes - also Holocaust was necesary in tis bets of all possible worlds. If today a Holocaust against whomever should come again, no one had any chance to survive any longer. The Jews payed this highetsbof all prices - and gods grace is with them. Stil the Jews are alive.

And let me answer as a German for "9/11". Germany was a cointyr wherh eeryhewrre was a 9/11 after world war 2. But we started to bring us back from this absolute disaster to the light. And you? Two bombs and you started to destroy yourselve. For what died all the millions of people, which the USA had murdered in their wars? The USA is so damned rich that everyone could live like a king and the country could be like a paradise on Earth - and what is the USA? A nation full of hate and weapons, a nation fukl of alcoihol and drugs, an aniton of mass+-murdree in wars and mass-muder of unborn babies, a nation without any scruple, moral and love to the truth ... even system of juistice is more a system of injustice ... what for heaverns sake are you fighting for, destroyer of the western world?

Yes, we are all of that, but we are also much more than that too.

The cosmic battle between good and evil wages on and on with no end in sight.

And yet, everything that was created is good.

 

[zaangalewa]

Everything which occurs, occurs through the grace of God.

Does that include 9/11 and the Holocaust? ...

Let me answer here in the name of the Holocaust victims of my own family witzh "yes" for the Holocaust. Yes - also Holocaust was necesary in tis bets of all possible worlds. If today a Holocaust against whomever should come again, no one had any chance to survive any longer. The Jews payed this highetsbof all prices - and gods grace is with them. Stil the Jews are alive.

And let me answer as a German for "9/11". Germany was a cointyr wherh eeryhewrre was a 9/11 after world war 2. But we started to bring us back from this absolute disaster to the light. And you? Two bombs and you started to destroy yourselve. For what died all the millions of people, which the USA had murdered in their wars? The USA is so damned rich that everyone could live like a king and the country could be like a paradise on Earth - and what is the USA? A nation full of hate and weapons, a nation fukl of alcoihol and drugs, an aniton of mass+-murdree in wars and mass-muder of unborn babies, a nation without any scruple, moral and love to the truth ... even system of juistice is more a system of injustice ... what for heaverns sake are you fighting for, destroyer of the western world?

Yes, we are all of that, but we are also much more than that too.

The cosmic battle between good and evil wages on and on with no end in sight.

And yet, everything that was created is good.

A nice title for a book "The dwarf USA on the way to the cosmic battle between good and evil". I hope it has many pages. The world needs toilet paper. Toilet paper is good - megalomania is evil.

 

[BreezeWood]

Everything which occurs, occurs through the grace of God.

Does that include 9/11 and the Holocaust? ...

Let me answer here in the name of the Holocaust victims of my own family with "yes" for the Holocaust. Yes - also the Holocaust was necessary in this best of all possible worlds here. If today a Holocaust - against whomever - should come again, no one had any chance to survive any longer. The Jews payed this highest price - and gods grace is with them.

And let me answer as a German for "9/11". Germany was a complete country down to the ground after world war 2. But we started to bring us back from this absolute disaster to the light. And you? Two bombs and you started to destroy yourselve. For what died all the millions of people, which the USA had murdered in their wars? The USA is so damned rich that everyone could live like a king and the country could be like a paradise on Earth - and what is the USA? A nation full of hate and weapons, a nation full of alcohol and drugs, an nation of mass-murder in wars and mass-muder of unborn babies, a nation without any scruple, moral and love to the truth ... even the system of juistice is more a system of injustice in the USA including an overflow of prisons and prisoners ... what for heavens sake are you fighting for, destroyer of the western world? Not for the survival of the world and not for all known life in the universe, as it looks like.

.

A nation full of hate and weapons, a nation full of alcohol and drugs, an nation of mass-murder in wars and mass-muder of unborn babies, a nation without any scruple, moral and love to the truth ...

save a few, reproductive rights for women your diatribe is the result of christian values including nazi germany derived from their forged christian bible as a primary source of evil on earth. your bible so why are you so unwilling to correct the errors you continue to embrace yourself. broken record.

the other desert religions as the same.

 

[zaangalewa]

ding

By the way: Your idea that in everything what's bad is also something what's good is Christian. Your idea that an evil god fights against a good god is shoroastric.

 

[zaangalewa]

save a few, reproductive rights for women your diatribe is the result of christian values including nazi germany derived from their forged christian bible as a primary source of evil on earth. your bible so why are you so unwilling to correct the errors you continue to embrace yourself. broken record.

the other desert religions as the same.

Makes it any sense what you wrote here?

 

[Taz]

Babies are born not believing in anything. So yes, belief is an intentional act.

THREAD CLOSED.

 

[diver52]

Babies are born not believing in anything. So yes, belief is an intentional act.

THREAD CLOSED.

A baby told you that? Or is it just something you believe?

 

[Taz]

Babies are born not believing in anything. So yes, belief is an intentional act.

THREAD CLOSED.

A baby told you that? Or is it just something you believe?

Until you can prove that they are born believing something, you have nothing. And what would be the universal thing that babies are born believing?