Iraq and Al Queda

[Annie]

Prior to 11/01 OBL=Al Queda

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp

It's long and detailed, with many references back to the 9/11 report.

The Mother of All Connections
From the July 18, 2005 issue: A special report on the new evidence of collaboration between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda.
by Stephen F. Hayes & Thomas Joscelyn
07/18/2005, Volume 010, Issue 41

"In August 1998, the detainee traveled to Pakistan with a member of Iraqi Intelligence for the purpose of blowing up the Pakistan, United States and British embassies with chemical mortars."

U.S. government "Summary of Evidence" for an Iraqi member of al Qaeda detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba

FOR MANY, the debate over the former Iraqi regime's ties to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network ended a year ago with the release of the 9/11 Commission report. Media outlets seized on a carefully worded summary that the commission had found no evidence "indicating that Iraq cooperated with al Qaeda in developing or carrying out any attacks against the United States" and ran blaring headlines like the one on the June 17, 2004, front page of the New York Times: "Panel Finds No Qaeda-Iraq Tie."

But this was woefully imprecise. It assumed, not unreasonably, that the 9/11 Commission's conclusion was based on a firm foundation of intelligence reporting, that the intelligence community had the type of human intelligence and other reporting that would allow senior-level analysts to draw reasonable conclusions. We know now that was not the case.

John Lehman, a 9/11 commissioner, spoke to The Weekly Standard at the time the report was released. "There may well be--and probably will be--additional intelligence coming in from interrogations and from analysis of captured records and so forth which will fill out the intelligence picture. This is not phrased as--nor meant to be--the definitive word on Iraqi Intelligence activities."

Lehman's caution was prescient. A year later, we still cannot begin
to offer a "definitive" picture of the relationships entered into by Saddam Hussein's operatives, but much more has already been learned from documents uncovered after the Iraq war. The evidence we present below, compiled from revelations in recent months, suggests an acute case of denial on the part of those who dismiss the Iraq-al Qaeda relationship.

There could hardly be a clearer case--of the ongoing revelations and the ongoing denial--than in the 13 points below, reproduced verbatim from a "Summary of Evidence" prepared by the U.S. government in November 2004. This unclassified document was released by the Pentagon in late March 2005. It details the case for designating an Iraqi member of al Qaeda, currently detained in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as an "enemy combatant."

1. From 1987 to 1989, the detainee served as an infantryman in the Iraqi Army and received training on the mortar and rocket propelled grenades.
2. A Taliban recruiter in Baghdad convinced the detainee to travel to Afghanistan to join the Taliban in 1994.
3. The detainee admitted he was a member of the Taliban.
4. The detainee pledged allegiance to the supreme leader of the Taliban to help them take over all of Afghanistan.
5. The Taliban issued the detainee a Kalishnikov rifle in November 2000.
6. The detainee worked in a Taliban ammo and arms storage arsenal in Mazar-Es-Sharif organizing weapons and ammunition.
7. The detainee willingly associated with al Qaida members.
8. The detainee was a member of al Qaida.
9. An assistant to Usama Bin Ladin paid the detainee on three separate occasions between 1995 and 1997.
10. The detainee stayed at the al Farouq camp in Darwanta, Afghanistan, where he received 1,000 Rupees to continue his travels.
11. From 1997 to 1998, the detainee acted as a trusted agent for Usama Bin Ladin, executing three separate reconnaissance missions for the al Qaeda leader in Oman, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
12. In August 1998, the detainee traveled to Pakistan with a member of Iraqi Intelligence for the purpose of blowing up the Pakistan, United States and British embassies with chemical mortars.
13. Detainee was arrested by Pakistani authorities in Khudzar, Pakistan, in July 2002...

 

[Psychoblues]

Prior to 11/01 OBL=Al Queda

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp

It's long and detailed, with many references back to the 9/11 report.

I could offer as much evidence that I was a supporter of the Viet Nam War. I was not and I am not, even though I served there and I still consider my participation Honorable and I still have the military records and Certificate of Honorable Discharge (and a DD214) to prove it. But that takes a sizeable amount of interpretation as well. So, what is your primary point?

I can only surmise that you a blind supporter of WAR or a particular political position and you contend your position regardless the facts?

Psychoblues

 

[Comrade]

I could offer as much evidence that I was a supporter of the Viet Nam War. I was not and I am not, even though I served there and I still consider my participation Honorable and I still have the military records and Certificate of Honorable Discharge to prove it. But that takes a sizeable amount of interpretation as well. So, what is your primary point?

I can only surmise that you a blind supporter of WAR or a particular political position and you contend your position regardless the facts?

Psychoblues

Kathianne just gave you a list of facts which are derived from an unclassified document, surely one you could independantly reference on the web, and proceed to refute in a rational manner. Beware of the accusations you make about my Queen, peasant, before you are made the next court jester.

 

[Psychoblues]

WTF!

Kathianne just gave you a list of facts which are derived from an unclassified document, surely one you could independantly reference on the web, and proceed to refute in a rational manner. Don't you even think about talking to the Queen in this manner, peasant.

I love and appreciate the thoughts and appeals of the "queen" Kathianne as much as you do, Comrade. She would certainly offer something other than a demand for "independantly" (you really need to use a spell-check of some kind) referenced refutation of "web" information. Such a justification is exactly what I was in reference to. Thanks for your reference to my response as being within a "rational manner."

I'll repeat your avatar:

[WTF]



Psychoblues

 

[Comrade]

I love and appreciate the thoughts and appeals of the "queen" Kathianne as much as you do, Comrade. She would certainly offer something other than a demand for "independantly" (you really need to use a spell-check of some kind) referenced refutation of "web" information.

Listen, knave:

This unclassified document was released by the Pentagon in late March 2005. It details the case for designating an Iraqi member of al Qaeda, currently detained in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as an "enemy combatant."

If you discard this as "Web" information then you better have a good reason to do this, given you already know the source, release date, and subject matter for what is claimed to be an open sourced document. Note that 'unclassified document' or 'open source' is something you could easily disprove, IF it didn't exist. Much easier than the 'unnamed sources' and 'copied, secret documents' you're used to dealing with on your side of the political spectrum.

 

[Annie]

Listen, knave:



If you discard this as "Web" information then you better have a good reason to do this, given you already know the source, release date, and subject matter for what is claimed to be an open sourced document. Note that 'unclassified document' or 'open source' is something you could easily disprove, IF it didn't exist. Much easier than the 'unnamed sources' and 'copied, secret documents' you're used to dealing with on your side of the political spectrum.

Thanks for the defense, Comrade, though Psycho is not really one that we need to 'prove' anything to, since he waves away anything he doesn't like.

Those points come from the 9/11 Commission, the same one that so many libs have been sourcing to say that Iraq had nothing to do with OBL.

 

[Psychoblues]

It may be true that the following list provided by Kathianne was obtained from transcipts of the 9-11 Commission Report. I've read a lot of it, I will continue a study of it. I would submit the list is taken completely out of context and totally proven false by other testimony that the commission also offers in it's report.

1. From 1987 to 1989, the detainee served as an infantryman in the Iraqi Army and received training on the mortar and rocket propelled grenades.
2. A Taliban recruiter in Baghdad convinced the detainee to travel to Afghanistan to join the Taliban in 1994.
3. The detainee admitted he was a member of the Taliban.
4. The detainee pledged allegiance to the supreme leader of the Taliban to help them take over all of Afghanistan.
5. The Taliban issued the detainee a Kalishnikov rifle in November 2000.
6. The detainee worked in a Taliban ammo and arms storage arsenal in Mazar-Es-Sharif organizing weapons and ammunition.
7. The detainee willingly associated with al Qaida members.
8. The detainee was a member of al Qaida.
9. An assistant to Usama Bin Ladin paid the detainee on three separate occasions between 1995 and 1997.
10. The detainee stayed at the al Farouq camp in Darwanta, Afghanistan, where he received 1,000 Rupees to continue his travels.
11. From 1997 to 1998, the detainee acted as a trusted agent for Usama Bin Ladin, executing three separate reconnaissance missions for the al Qaeda leader in Oman, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
12. In August 1998, the detainee traveled to Pakistan with a member of Iraqi Intelligence for the purpose of blowing up the Pakistan, United States and British embassies with chemical mortars.
13. Detainee was arrested by Pakistani authorities in Khudzar, Pakistan, in July 2002...

I would ask that you read the report for yourself and not rely on Kathianne or even myself to provide you accurate and complete analyses of it's content. Overall, I don't consider the report flattering to the BUSH administration or the tales they have told leading us into WAR in Iraq.

Psychoblues

 

[Gunny]

It may be true that the following list provided by Kathianne was obtained from transcipts of the 9-11 Commission Report. I've read a lot of it, I will continue a study of it. I would submit the list is taken completely out of context and totally proven false by other testimony that the commission also offers in it's report.

1. From 1987 to 1989, the detainee served as an infantryman in the Iraqi Army and received training on the mortar and rocket propelled grenades.
2. A Taliban recruiter in Baghdad convinced the detainee to travel to Afghanistan to join the Taliban in 1994.
3. The detainee admitted he was a member of the Taliban.
4. The detainee pledged allegiance to the supreme leader of the Taliban to help them take over all of Afghanistan.
5. The Taliban issued the detainee a Kalishnikov rifle in November 2000.
6. The detainee worked in a Taliban ammo and arms storage arsenal in Mazar-Es-Sharif organizing weapons and ammunition.
7. The detainee willingly associated with al Qaida members.
8. The detainee was a member of al Qaida.
9. An assistant to Usama Bin Ladin paid the detainee on three separate occasions between 1995 and 1997.
10. The detainee stayed at the al Farouq camp in Darwanta, Afghanistan, where he received 1,000 Rupees to continue his travels.
11. From 1997 to 1998, the detainee acted as a trusted agent for Usama Bin Ladin, executing three separate reconnaissance missions for the al Qaeda leader in Oman, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
12. In August 1998, the detainee traveled to Pakistan with a member of Iraqi Intelligence for the purpose of blowing up the Pakistan, United States and British embassies with chemical mortars.
13. Detainee was arrested by Pakistani authorities in Khudzar, Pakistan, in July 2002...

I would ask that you read the report for yourself and not rely on Kathianne or even myself to provide you accurate and complete analyses of it's content. Overall, I don't consider the report flattering to the BUSH administration or the tales they have told leading us into WAR in Iraq.

Psychoblues

To the contrary, I think it's a textbook example of the fact that regardless which Middle Eastern rock farm this vermin crawled off of, a scumsucking, noncombatant murdering Islamic jihadist is a scumsucking, noncombatant murdering Islamic jihadist.

This extremist obviously moved freely from the Iraq Army to the Taliban to AQ. These people don't observe borders nor exclusive membership. They are all one and the same monster united to destroy the US/Western society simply because we choose to not believe their 7th century religious fanaticism.

It not only justifies the invasion of Iraq, but it would justify cleaning out the entire region to me.

 

[Annie]

It may be true that the following list provided by Kathianne was obtained from transcipts of the 9-11 Commission Report. I've read a lot of it, I will continue a study of it. I would submit the list is taken completely out of context and totally proven false by other testimony that the commission also offers in it's report.

1. From 1987 to 1989, the detainee served as an infantryman in the Iraqi Army and received training on the mortar and rocket propelled grenades.
2. A Taliban recruiter in Baghdad convinced the detainee to travel to Afghanistan to join the Taliban in 1994.
3. The detainee admitted he was a member of the Taliban.
4. The detainee pledged allegiance to the supreme leader of the Taliban to help them take over all of Afghanistan.
5. The Taliban issued the detainee a Kalishnikov rifle in November 2000.
6. The detainee worked in a Taliban ammo and arms storage arsenal in Mazar-Es-Sharif organizing weapons and ammunition.
7. The detainee willingly associated with al Qaida members.
8. The detainee was a member of al Qaida.
9. An assistant to Usama Bin Ladin paid the detainee on three separate occasions between 1995 and 1997.
10. The detainee stayed at the al Farouq camp in Darwanta, Afghanistan, where he received 1,000 Rupees to continue his travels.
11. From 1997 to 1998, the detainee acted as a trusted agent for Usama Bin Ladin, executing three separate reconnaissance missions for the al Qaeda leader in Oman, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
12. In August 1998, the detainee traveled to Pakistan with a member of Iraqi Intelligence for the purpose of blowing up the Pakistan, United States and British embassies with chemical mortars.
13. Detainee was arrested by Pakistani authorities in Khudzar, Pakistan, in July 2002...

I would ask that you read the report for yourself and not rely on Kathianne or even myself to provide you accurate and complete analyses of it's content. Overall, I don't consider the report flattering to the BUSH administration or the tales they have told leading us into WAR in Iraq.

Psychoblues

For once I'll agree with Psycho. I said when it came out, that everyone should read the report. I still think so and have gone through it several times now. While long, it makes some intereresting inferences, such as those listed. As for Psycho, me thinks his 'reading and reporting' would be worse than what some of the 'reporters' have already cherry picked out of the report. (problem with 'intel': what are 'facts' and what must be 'inferred'.)