Zone1 Intellectual Honesty

[Kilroy2]

That suggests, not admitting any errors, a dishonest approach to public dialogue. We all make errors, and we all know that. Some refuse to admit it, and therein lies the problem.

people can have discussion about things that do have an unknown answer

Is the earth round or flat

looking from space it does look round

standing on the earth , it is impossible to fall off the earth

Does God exist


Some things are not known

reasonable people can disagree

unreasonable people will always disagree

The error is pretending to know everything.

 

[PeterPilot]

people can have discussion about things that do have an unknown answer

Is the earth round or flat

looking from space it does look round

standing on the earth , it is impossible to fall off the earth

Does God exist


Some things are not known

reasonable people can disagree

unreasonable people will always disagree

The error is pretending to know everything.

Yes, reasonable people can disagree on subjects and opinions for which there is no answer. The knowledge mankind possesses is just a drop in the bucket compared to what mankind has no clue about.

Yes, the earth is round, a sphere, even though some of its terrain is flat or even concave.

 

[Foxfyre]

Understanding intellectual honesty is very simple compared to all that logic classes and principles involve.

In principle yes it is. In practice, it can get complicated.

 

[Kilroy2]

Yes, reasonable people can disagree on subjects and opinions for which there is no answer. The knowledge mankind possesses is just a drop in the bucket compared to what mankind has no clue about.

Yes, the earth is round, a sphere, even though some of its terrain is flat or even concave.

Okay how about this

Your at the south pole and take a rocket ride away from the earth

are you falling from the earth?

how about if you jump off a tall tower and ;you are falling

it can be said that your falling to the earth?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

The counts, recounts, court actions, all confirming your blob lost

You have to prove it was the most.

More intellectual dishonesty on your part.

You have to prove it happened.

 

[alang1216]

Being skeptical is part of critical thinking. Skepticism is not dishonest.

Refusing to examine facts and evidence is dishonest, and often a sign of cognitive dissonance.

Being skeptical is a very good thing but continuing to hold a belief that has been exhaustively examined and found to have little or no evidence behind it, is not.

 

[PeterPilot]

Being skeptical is a very good thing but continuing to hold a belief that has been exhaustively examined and found to have little or no evidence behind it, is not.

We are in complete agreement on that. Problems arise when people do not examine facts and evidence because they are incessantly propagandized and bombarded with official stories that are contradicted by facts and evidence. As Huxley noted in the last century, facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.

 

[PeterPilot]

Okay how about this

Your at the south pole and take a rocket ride away from the earth

are you falling from the earth?

how about if you jump off a tall tower and ;you are falling

it can be said that your falling to the earth?

By way of thrust and trajectory, a rocket overcomes gravity to get to a place where gravity is no longer a factor. So no, in your example one is not falling from earth, one is being accelerated to escape velocity. Yes if you jump off a tower, gravity brings you back to earth quickly. Jumping off a tower is not accelerating.

 

[PeterPilot]

In principle yes it is. In practice, it can get complicated.

I prefer empiricism to theory.

 

[Foxfyre]

I prefer empiricism to theory.

Empiricism is theory though the philosophical view usually doesn't treat it as such.

But without theory, there is little curiosity. Without curiosity, humankind does not advance in knowledge, experience, and especially the sciences.

I do think a great deal of our perceptions and intellectual honesty stems from our experience with the world and all that is in it that we experience though.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

I prefer empiricism to theory.

When discussing social and political issues, rationalism and logic > empiricism..

For example:

BLM: “Tons of unarmed black people are being killed by police because George Floyd and a few other examples, we need to start a movement of the entire country to go after all
Police”

Rationalism: “15-20 unarmed blacks are killed by police a year. While zero would be optimal, it’s not an epidemic, your experiences are leading you astray”

 

[PeterPilot]

Empiricism is theory though the philosophical view usually doesn't treat it as such.

But without theory, there is little curiosity. Without curiosity, humankind does not advance in knowledge, experience, and especially the sciences.

I do think a great deal of our perceptions and intellectual honesty stems from our experience with the world and all that is in it that we experience though.

It sounds like you need a dictionary.

 

[Foxfyre]

It sounds like you need a dictionary.

Sounds like you aren't interested in a serious discussion and are just trolling trying to start a food fight. Do have a pleasant day.

 

[Kilroy2]

By way of thrust and trajectory, a rocket overcomes gravity to get to a place where gravity is no longer a factor. So no, in your example one is not falling from earth, one is being accelerated to escape velocity. Yes if you jump off a tower, gravity brings you back to earth quickly. Jumping off a tower is not accelerating.

Yes that is true that gravity has to be overcome.

Still if a rocket malfunctions before it leaves Earth gravity pull or orbit then depending on location pieces can fall back to earth or burn up on reentry.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/05/science/cosmos-482-reentry-earth

Pieces of a soviet space craft is expected to fall back to earth.

yeah most of it may burn up in reentry but pieces may make it back.

A failed Soviet spacecraft that was mistakenly trapped in Earth orbit more than 50 years ago is expected to finally crash back to our planet this week.

Thus it is falling and yes theoretically it must overcome burning up in reentry but it still is falling. I guess a parachute does come in handy.

another scenario when any spacecraft returns to earth.

It reenters earth gravity and falls to earth. Pieces may burn up but obvious it can return to earth in one piece.

I guess that parachute does come in handy

But WHAT GOES UP MUST COME DOWN

 

[PeterPilot]

Sounds like you aren't interested in a serious discussion and are just trolling trying to start a food fight. Do have a pleasant day.

I crave a serious discussion with informed humans. That's why I'm here. But encountering individuals reluctant to use words properly is not really a serious discussion.

Here is the Webster definition of empirical: relying upon or gained from experiment or observation.

It's not a theory sir, it is observation of what actually happens and judging accordingly.

 

[schmidlap]

One such incident happened today. Many people on social media portrayed that Mexican tall ship as politically motivated, even loaded with migrants, intent on making a political statement.

The evidence, however, is that ship is actually a Mexican naval vessel used as a training vessel as it sails about the world on good will missions. It hitting the bridge was almost certainly an unfortunate and, for those injured or killed, tragic accident. The conspiracy theory was entirely unfounded and in error.

I'm seeing much fewer of those politically motivated but almost certainly erroneous posts on social media now, but very very few acknowledgments that the information previously posted was in error.

Consider the documented lie attacking Black immigrants in Springfield, OH:

Ever since he lied about the results of the 2020 election that was certified by all 50 states and the U.S. Congress, neither he, nor his lickspittles, nor his cult, have shown the testicular fortitude to honestly admit the truth, even after his propagandists have been forced to admit the truth:

Vance Again Refuses to Say Trump Lost 2020 Election - Newsmax​

Newsmax chief said in 2020 ‘we have no evidence’ election was rigged ​

Newsmax Withdraws False Claims About 2020 Election​

​

When confronted, they irrationally deny. or desperately attempt feeble diversions.

"Oh, yeah!
Well, what about...?"​

 

[Dragonlady]

Proof it was the most "closely-watched"? Or are you just reciting MSNBC talking points, because they (and the rest of the legacy media) used to say that line in their scripts rather commonly, and never explaining how they came to that conclusion.

Given the legacy media is at or below Alex Jones in integrity now.. I have to assume such a strong claim likely isn't true.

Tell that to Hillary Clinton, Stacey Abrams, and Al Gore.. and even Kamala Harris. They all still whine about how things were stolen from them, or that the populace is too racist and sexist and that's the only reason they lost.

I'll wait.

No only did both parties have "poll watchers" at all polls, the election and the count was scrutinized by DHS, the FBI, the DOJ, all of the state workers. Trump even brought in a European watchdog group to oversee the fairness of the election.

Every state election worker in the USA had to certify their work on the election count. And all of them did, including all 50 of the Secretaries of State for the individual states.

All of these thousands of people certified to the states and to the federal government that 2020 was the most honest and fair election in US history.

Trump present ZERO evidence to support his claims to the contrary.

Only a moron would continue to try to claim that Trump won that election. YOU are that moron.

 

[Dragonlady]

One such incident happened today. Many people on social media portrayed that Mexican tall ship as politically motivated, even loaded with migrants, intent on making a political statement.

The evidence, however, is that ship is actually a Mexican naval vessel used as a training vessel as it sails about the world on good will missions. It hitting the bridge was almost certainly an unfortunate and, for those injured or killed, tragic accident. The conspiracy theory was entirely unfounded and in error.

I'm seeing much fewer of those politically motivated but almost certainly erroneous posts on social media now, but very very few acknowledgments that the information previously posted was in error.

That's because the election is over. During the campaign there were a lot more conspiracy theories and lies floating around - many of them promoted by Vance and Trump e.g. "they're eating the pets".

Unfortunately, a firehose of conspiracy theories is being floated by the White House and you're accepting those verbatim. Trump leads the charge on crazy conspiracy theories.

Things like "stolen election" that Trump knows he lost, or "the tariffs are paid by the exporting nation". No nation has the right or authority to tax any nation or people, other than their own.

Or today's conspiracy theory of a white genocide in South Africa, which was completely discredited by the South African officials there.

 

[schmidlap]

That's because the election is over. During the campaign there were a lot more conspiracy theories and lies floating around - many of them promoted by Vance and Trump e.g. "they're eating the pets".

Unfortunately, a firehose of conspiracy theories is being floated by the White House and you're accepting those verbatim. Trump leads the charge on crazy conspiracy theories.

Things like "stolen election" that Trump knows he lost, or "the tariffs are paid by the exporting nation". No nation has the right or authority to tax any nation or people, other than their own.

Or today's conspiracy theory of a white genocide in South Africa, which was completely discredited by the South African officials there.

It's the blowhard approach to reality denial.

If you can concoct no credible evidence of you fake claim, bray it loudly and hysterically, and your cult will mindlessly parrot your false claims.

 

[Kilroy2]

By way of thrust and trajectory, a rocket overcomes gravity to get to a place where gravity is no longer a factor. So no, in your example one is not falling from earth, one is being accelerated to escape velocity. Yes if you jump off a tower, gravity brings you back to earth quickly. Jumping off a tower is not accelerating.

Well good response

Science says that the earth is always falling.
and yes gravity does keep things in its place and why humans are not thrown into space

So if one could jump thru a tunnel from the top and when it reached the bottom it would fall back to the top at some point.

Still leaving from the south pole it could be said that one is falling from the earth by designation the south as the bottom. Once gravity is defeated.

So if the south is designated the bottom then using a spaceship it could be said you are leaving the bottom of the earth and falling from the earth.