Individual Education Programs.

[JoeMoma]

Many kids in school have IEPs due to learning disabilities. As such, these students are afforded a variety of accommodations such as extra time on tests (1.5 times regular time) and/or regular assignments, use of calculator, oral administration of tests, small groups, etc. This can be a very good thing that allows many students to progress an learn better than if they were not afforded these accommodations. That said, when/where should these accommodations end? Students with IEPs get the accommodations on tests like the SAT and ACT and they can in many cases get the accommodations in university classes. When these people move into the work force, are their employers going to give them 50% more time to do their jobs but pay them the regular pay rate?

 

[Moonglow]

That is up to the employer and the current tax credit for hiring the handicapped.

 

[ClaireH]

Many kids in school have IEPs due to learning disabilities. As such, these students are afforded a variety of accommodations such as extra time on tests (1.5 times regular time) and/or regular assignments, use of calculator, oral administration of tests, small groups, etc. This can be a very good thing that allows many students to progress an learn better than if they were not afforded these accommodations. That said, when/where should these accommodations end? Students with IEPs get the accommodations on tests like the SAT and ACT and they can in many cases get the accommodations in university classes. When these people move into the work force, are their employers going to give them 50% more time to do their jobs but pay them the regular pay rate?

I agree with you about IEP’s helping many students. A special education teacher once said it best- she tells her students that being in “her class is a special privilege and don’t let anybody else tell you otherwise”. This perception also helps the kids who feel embarrassment or shame about being in a special ed classroom, as if it meant that they were “less than” the other students.

One thing that sticks in my mind is there are kids in special education who could absolutely teach a calculus class but cannot read at their grade level. I tutored a girl who could do this, she was a freshman and tutored 11th/12th graders in upper math skills. She was quite impressive and through practice learned how to enjoy reading and excelled.

You have a valid question about when this extra help should end. I don’t think it should end when secondary schools can assist these kids in specific skills, job training on the job. Fortunately, many schools have this in place

One thing that is ludicrous is schools continuing to “teach to the test” that requires special ed students taking math and English state tests. Teachers are told to prepare their students to take the test so they make the highest scores possible, so the school is ranked higher statewide and is given federal money. This wastes valuable class time, and more importantly, does nothing to help prepare these kids for the real world. Most kids, not just special ed students, but most high schools kids are clueless about percentages and fractions. Ask them what the sales price is at 30% of something or how much a restaurant tip should be from a $30 bill, most (a safe guess considering that only means over half) will have no clue. That’s how schools fail their students.

 

[JoeMoma]

Most kids, not just special ed students, but most high schools kids are clueless about percentages and fractions. Ask them what the sales price is at 30% of something or how much a restaurant tip should be from a $30 bill, most (a safe guess considering that only means over half) will have no clue. That’s how schools fail their students.

When I was a high school student, the early 1980s, students could earn a high school diploma with 2 units of general math. In other words, not everyone had to take algebra, etc. So today I see students forced into taking "advanced" math classes that will never provide them with real world benefit because they haven't yet mastered the prerequisite math skills and math understanding. Perhaps the student can memorize the rote procedure to solve a two step equation, but he will never have a firm enough grasp of the concepts to apply the skills in real life. Life doesn't typically hand a person an already formulated equation to solve (when not in math class). These students would benefit more from math classes that focus more on life skills like determining the price of 30% of something than some of the more abstract concepts taught in advanced math classes.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Many kids in school have IEPs due to learning disabilities. As such, these students are afforded a variety of accommodations such as extra time on tests (1.5 times regular time) and/or regular assignments, use of calculator, oral administration of tests, small groups, etc. This can be a very good thing that allows many students to progress an learn better than if they were not afforded these accommodations. That said, when/where should these accommodations end? Students with IEPs get the accommodations on tests like the SAT and ACT and they can in many cases get the accommodations in university classes. When these people move into the work force, are their employers going to give them 50% more time to do their jobs but pay them the regular pay rate?

Why is this any of your business?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

I agree with you about IEP’s helping many students. A special education teacher once said it best- she tells her students that being in “her class is a special privilege and don’t let anybody else tell you otherwise”. This perception also helps the kids who feel embarrassment or shame about being in a special ed classroom, as if it meant that they were “less than” the other students.

One thing that sticks in my mind is there are kids in special education who could absolutely teach a calculus class but cannot read at their grade level. I tutored a girl who could do this, she was a freshman and tutored 11th/12th graders in upper math skills. She was quite impressive and through practice learned how to enjoy reading and excelled.

You have a valid question about when this extra help should end. I don’t think it should end when secondary schools can assist these kids in specific skills, job training on the job. Fortunately, many schools have this in place

One thing that is ludicrous is schools continuing to “teach to the test” that requires special ed students taking math and English state tests. Teachers are told to prepare their students to take the test so they make the highest scores possible, so the school is ranked higher statewide and is given federal money. This wastes valuable class time, and more importantly, does nothing to help prepare these kids for the real world. Most kids, not just special ed students, but most high schools kids are clueless about percentages and fractions. Ask them what the sales price is at 30% of something or how much a restaurant tip should be from a $30 bill, most (a safe guess considering that only means over half) will have no clue. That’s how schools fail their students.

Tests are aligned to the standards. If you aren't teaching the standards, your students will do poorly. Every teacher worth their salt teaches to the test. People outside education have denigrated "teaching to the test" because they do not understand it.

Schools are NOT given federal money based on test score. You are incorrect.

Calculating tips went away with the invention of the Smart phone and most major restaurants will calculate suggested tips for you on your check.

I'm sorry, but like most people, you need a little more education about education.

 

[ClaireH]

Why is this any of your business?

Surely ART you’re not implying that posters should be limited to have opinions about things in which they only directly engage? Are you in support of authoritarian posturing?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Surely ART you’re not implying that posters should be limited to have opinions about things in which they only directly engage? Are you in support of authoritarian posturing?

Was I addressing you with my post? No.

 

[ClaireH]

Tests are aligned to the standards. If you aren't teaching the standards, your students will do poorly. Every teacher worth their salt teaches to the test. People outside education have denigrated "teaching to the test" because they do not understand it.

Schools are NOT given federal money based on test score. You are incorrect.

Calculating tips went away with the invention of the Smart phone and most major restaurants will calculate suggested tips for you on your check.

I'm sorry, but like most people, you need a little more education about education.

This speaks volumes “Every teacher worth their salt teaches to the test”. Anyone in the educational field will recognize your position and it does not support students nor their education. You are in need of a 180° turn around in this matter but know your inflexible from past posts… multiple if not all reflect your authoritarian views. Get out more and save yourself from yourself.

 

[Foxfyre]

Many kids in school have IEPs due to learning disabilities. As such, these students are afforded a variety of accommodations such as extra time on tests (1.5 times regular time) and/or regular assignments, use of calculator, oral administration of tests, small groups, etc. This can be a very good thing that allows many students to progress an learn better than if they were not afforded these accommodations. That said, when/where should these accommodations end? Students with IEPs get the accommodations on tests like the SAT and ACT and they can in many cases get the accommodations in university classes. When these people move into the work force, are their employers going to give them 50% more time to do their jobs but pay them the regular pay rate?

I have no problem with special ed classes for those kids that are challenged in some way. My issue comes with dumbing down to the lowest denominator those kids who aren't challenged, or not challenging kids to think critically and creatively, learn how to learn, aspire to be achieve and be the best they can be. All children deserve and need opportunity to be fully educated in real subjects--reading, writing, math, history, geography, etc.--and should learn early on that there are consequences (grades) for not doing the work or giving your best effort.

 

[Winco]

These students would benefit more from math classes that focus more on life skills like determining the price of 30% of something than some of the more abstract concepts taught in advanced math classes.

You believe that Percents are not taught?
It is one of the standards.

There are also classes called "Financial Algebra" which is practical math and can replace Algebra II for HS credit. Now that said, entrance to a University might require particular math classes for entrance.

 

[ClaireH]

I have no problem with special ed classes for those kids that are challenged in some way. My issue comes with dumbing down to the lowest denominator those kids who aren't challenged, or not challenging kids to think critically and creatively, learn how to learn, aspire to be achieve and be the best they can be. All children deserve and need opportunity to be fully educated in real subjects--reading, writing, math, history, geography, etc.--and should learn early on that there are consequences (grades) for not doing the work or giving your best effort.

Your comments reflect, unfortunately, a smaller subset of students in most special educational classrooms-students who just don’t want to do the work so they don’t. They usually, not always, act out in class to have an evaluation for special ed needs. Teachers get tired of babysitting them and they direct them to the special Ed evaluation.

As I stated earlier, special ed should be a special privilege for students who deserve it, not the lazy kids who have the ability to learn in a regular classroom but don’t apply themselves.

 

[Winco]

One thing that is ludicrous is schools continuing to “teach to the test” that requires special ed students taking math and English state tests. Teachers are told to prepare their students to take the test so they make the highest scores possible, so the school is ranked higher statewide and is given federal money. This wastes valuable class time, and more importantly, does nothing to help prepare these kids for the real world. Most kids, not just special ed students, but most high schools kids are clueless about percentages and fractions. Ask them what the sales price is at 30% of something or how much a restaurant tip should be from a $30 bill, most (a safe guess considering that only means over half) will have no clue. That’s how schools fail their students.

Admiral Rockwell Tory is a pompous ass, but he's correct about this.
Curriculums have standards for classes. Look it up.
For example, the Algebra Curriculum says that these particular STANDARDS need to be taught. It doesn't say HOW, one teachers method and delivery can be different than another, but the STANDARDS are the same.

Standardized tests are give, and the tests are written towards the STANDARDS.

So, by teaching the curriculum, you are teaching the standards, which in turn means that by teaching the standards you are in fact teaching to the test.
Why do you have a problem with that?

This speaks volumes “Every teacher worth their salt teaches to the test”. Anyone in the educational field will recognize your position and it does not support students nor their education.

You are in the field of Education?
What do you teach?

 

[Winco]

Teachers get tired of babysitting them and they direct them to the special Ed evaluation.

Nope......Wrong.....that's NOT how it works.

 

[Foxfyre]

Your comments reflect, unfortunately, a smaller subset of students in most special educational classrooms-students who just don’t want to do the work so they don’t. They usually, not always, act out in class to have an evaluation for special ed needs. Teachers get tired of babysitting them and they direct them to the special Ed evaluation.

As I stated earlier, special ed should be a special privilege for students who deserve it, not the lazy kids who have the ability to learn in a regular classroom but don’t apply themselves.

Agreed. We need to return to the time when teachers deserved and received respect in the classroom, and when the child who couldn't/wouldn't behave went to the principle's office with the consequences being detention or some such. He/she was not allowed to disrupt the learning experience of the other students but neither was he/she declared a 'special needs' person. Those kids who insisted on being disruptive and/or dangerous to others were expelled and the parents required to make other arrangement for them.

Admittedly the current prevalence of drugged out, addicted, or otherwise irresponsible parents who won't or don't parent or even provide their kids with proper nutrition complicates things and wasn't the case 30 or 40 years ago. Before society became so 'tolerant' of that, parents who wouldn't or couldn't parent had their kids taken away until they could and would. That seems harsh but it really is the only answer to the gross negligence and neglect imposed on so many kids these days.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

This speaks volumes “Every teacher worth their salt teaches to the test”. Anyone in the educational field will recognize your position and it does not support students nor their education. You are in need of a 180° turn around in this matter but know your inflexible from past posts… multiple if not all reflect your authoritarian views. Get out more and save yourself from yourself.

It doesn't support students? I was a teacher and school administrator for 21 years.

Why do you want teachers teaching information that is not part of their curriculum?

I taught math, among other subjects, so perhaps I give you an example of what testing to the test entails.

My algebra standards told me that my students should know how to calculate simple interest on a loan using the appropriate formula. So, you want me to be teaching them how to calculate the impact of gullible warming on hurricanes instead or some similar bullshit? Those ACT tests had questions on calculating simple interest on a loan on the exam they took in their junior year. If I had not taught them the material, how would they answer that question correctly? They couldn't!

Missed questions reduce their scores, reduce their opportunity for scholarships, reduce their chances to get admitted to college and not having to take remedial math instruction when they got there!

I just cannot see the downside to teaching material that is going to be tested.

 

[ClaireH]

Admiral Rockwell Tory is a pompous ass, but he's correct about this.
Curriculums have standards for classes. Look it up.
For example, the Algebra Curriculum says that these particular STANDARDS need to be taught. It doesn't say HOW, one teachers method and delivery can be different than another, but the STANDARDS are the same.

Standardized tests are give, and the tests are written towards the STANDARDS.

So, by teaching the curriculum, you are teaching the standards, which in turn means that by teaching the standards you are in fact teaching to the test.
Why do you have a problem with that?


You are in the field of Education?
What do you teach?

I am licensed to teach K- 12th in US History, psychology, sociology, and social studies. I’ve taught in 2 high schools and 2 middle schools (one of which a short-lived nightmare where the classroom walls didn’t meet the ceilings, open concept no thanks). I initially pursued a degree in elementary education for over two years (down the drain coursework mostly) before switching to obtaining a psychology/sociology degree. I later returned to school to obtain my secondary teaching license.

I substituted in various grade levels prior to my first teaching job, including elementary grades. Imo- the best substitute jobs (really the pits for most) are absolutely found within the elementary grade levels and definitely nothing above 6th grade lol The younger grades still have respect for most teachers, and even substitute teachers, which absolutely changes around the 6th grade level depending upon the school.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

[B][COLOR=rgb(41, 105, 176)][SIZE=7]Admiral Rockwell Tory is a pompous ass,[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B] but he's correct about this.

Thank you Winco! That is the nicest thing you have ever said about me!

 

[ClaireH]

It doesn't support students? I was a teacher and school administrator for 21 years.

Why do you want teachers teaching information that is not part of their curriculum?

I taught math, among other subjects, so perhaps I give you an example of what testing to the test entails.

My algebra standards told me that my students should know how to calculate simple interest on a loan using the appropriate formula. So, you want me to be teaching them how to calculate the impact of gullible warming on hurricanes instead or some similar bullshit? Those ACT tests had questions on calculating simple interest on a loan on the exam they took in their junior year. If I had not taught them the material, how would they answer that question correctly? They couldn't!

Missed questions reduce their scores, reduce their opportunity for scholarships, reduce their chances to get admitted to college and not having to take remedial math instruction when they got there!

I just cannot see the downside to teaching material that is going to be tested.

You are confusing grade level requirements such as mastering comprehension skills, application etc. which is not the same thing as requiring teachers to utilize classroom time to teach to the test! I cannot believe you do not know the difference. Requiring teachers to “teach to the test” means reviewing past state test questions using entire class periods, question by question. Having kids memorize formulas when they couldn’t even fill out a checkbook nor perform basic multiplication and division without a calculator.

Like another poster wisely wrote, requiring special ed students to memorize formulas that will not be used by anyone other than those going to college geared for a math or science degree defeats the purpose of secondary education.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am licensed to teach K- 12th in US History, psychology, sociology, and social studies. I’ve taught in 2 high schools and 2 middle schools (one of which a short-lived nightmare where the classroom walls didn’t meet the ceilings, open concept no thanks. I initially pursued a degree in elementary education for over two years (down the drain coursework mostly) before switching to psychology/sociology degree. I later returned to school to obtain my secondary teaching license.

I substituted in various grade levels prior to my first teaching job, including elementary grades. Imo- the best substitute jobs (really the pits for most) are absolutely found within the elementary grade levels and definitely nothing above 6th grade lol The younger grades still have respect for most teachers, and even substitute teachers, which absolutely changes around the 6th grade level depending upon the school.

I am not an accredited teacher, but did some substitute teaching at a time the substitutes didn't have to be credentialed. I have also been PTA President and home room mother. And I agree the little ones are usually easiest though I didn't have much trouble in middle school or high school because the teacher could send the problem kid to the principle's office and the students knew he or she would. It is important to establish early rapport with the class.

I sometimes have cause to be in the local elementary and high school during school hours these days and it seems fairly calm. But I honestly believe at least some of the kids are being promoted/graduated without being educated these days.