Incomes up and Poverty Down in 2019

[Devils_Advocate]

Just a does of reality for all you Trump haters. The proof is again in the pudding. interestingly, look who benefited the most. But alas, these are the folks that are lock-step with the Democrats. Ignorance at best. We know it has taken a hit due to COVID, but it can be fixed under Trump. It will plummet with Biden.

Real median incomes of white, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from the prior year. Lower-income households did particularly well after missing out on income gains earlier in the expansion. The mean income of the lowest fifth of households rose 9% last year, a larger gain than for any other quintile of households.

U.S. Incomes Up, Poverty Rate Down in 2019

A dose of reality? Ok if the proof is in the pudding I have to say that the income has been going up for five years. Meaning it started durimg Obama's tenure. And it's a virtual certainty the figures for 2020 will not be nearly as rosy of a picture.

So how's that for reality?

LOL...I knew that was coming, which is why I posted the paragraph above. Notice who has gained the most. I might also add, you are attempting to give credit to Obama for the growth and yet Mac is blaming Trump for an impending collapse due to Trump's policies.

Of course the figures won't be as good in 2020. That goes for anywhere in the world. The left has convinced themselves that Trump led our country into this economic downturn, which is laughable.

China caused the downturn of the World Economy when they allowed the Covid Virus to escape and infect the World...

With that written it falls onto our leadership in D.C., State and Local levels to slow and curb the economic collapse if one is happening...

Buck stop somewhere and Truman would have said it stopped with him!

 

[Cellblock2429]

Just a does of reality for all you Trump haters. The proof is again in the pudding. interestingly, look who benefited the most. But alas, these are the folks that are lock-step with the Democrats. Ignorance at best. We know it has taken a hit due to COVID, but it can be fixed under Trump. It will plummet with Biden.

Real median incomes of white, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from the prior year. Lower-income households did particularly well after missing out on income gains earlier in the expansion. The mean income of the lowest fifth of households rose 9% last year, a larger gain than for any other quintile of households.

U.S. Incomes Up, Poverty Rate Down in 2019

A dose of reality? Ok if the proof is in the pudding I have to say that the income has been going up for five years. Meaning it started durimg Obama's tenure. And it's a virtual certainty the figures for 2020 will not be nearly as rosy of a picture.

So how's that for reality?

LOL...I knew that was coming, which is why I posted the paragraph above. Notice who has gained the most. I might also add, you are attempting to give credit to Obama for the growth and yet Mac is blaming Trump for an impending collapse due to Trump's policies.

Of course the figures won't be as good in 2020. That goes for anywhere in the world. The left has convinced themselves that Trump led our country into this economic downturn, which is laughable.

China caused the downturn of the World Economy when they allowed the Covid Virus to escape and infect the World...

With that written it falls onto our leadership in D.C., State and Local levels to slow and curb the economic collapse if one is happening...

Buck stop somewhere and Truman would have said it stopped with him!

/——/ Thd bad news is now DemocRAT Governors realize they have the power to crush the economy anytime they don’t get their way. Create a calamity, fake up numbers and declare a lockdown. Nothing stopping them. Sadly, their idiot base keeps re-electing them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's kind of an idiotic comparision, because that was a "Dead Cat Bounce" after the housing market Crashed during Trump Plague.

Yes, you really can increase the economy through spending, it's how we've gotten out of every recession since 1929. If we get out of this one, it will be because of the pork you are whining about.

It would have nothing to do with it. Pork means waste. Wasting money on pet projects to buy votes doesn't stimulate anything. All it really does is put us deeper and deeper into debt. Again, government doesn't create jobs.

First you said infrastructure (construction) would stimulate the economy. I showed you how new construction is already taking place, and now you say it won't make a difference. Once again, you're talking out of your ass and out of your mouth at the same time.

Actually, there is, it's stuck in the House, because McConnel won't bring it to a vote in the Senate.

If there is such a bill, then McConnell knows that it's not constitutional. It violates states rights and it will end up at the doors of the Supreme Court.

Well, you wouldn't, Welfare Ray, but most people have pride and dignity.

Here's the problem with that whole scenario. You only get it if your employer certifies he laid you off. if he says, "I asked Ray to come back to work, and he refused because he didn't want to catch the covid.", then no benefits.

The problem is, there are no jobs to go back to for most people. If those employers are hiring back at all, they are hiring new people they can pay less.

So forget about those who's jobs are still there, what about the people who's jobs aren't? Think they are going to put any effort into finding new work that pays less? You are going to find very few blue collar workers who don't have bills to pay. Hey, if I can stay on unemployment for three months, I can payoff my car, my credit card, put an extra 3K on my mortgage, buy that big screen that I always wanted.........

No Dr. OCD, people won't give up opportunity for pride and dignity. You leftists live in you own little make believe world. I posted sites supporting my point, and I bet I can find dozens of them on Google. You? You have nothing, like always.

Wow, so inflation is one of those concepts you don't get, either, right?

I get inflation just fine. You don't understand what residual income is. We spend more money on conveniences and technology than ever before. In fact I bet a lot of people spend more on that than they do necessities. That didn't happen when I was a kid.

When I was a kid, going to McDonald's was a once or twice a year treat for the family. We were a one car family too. We had one landline telephone for everybody. We had rabbit ears on our television set, and a stereo with an 8-track player for entertainment. Like fast food, movies were a real treat, and weather permitting, it was usually the drive-in. Back then, people lived in smaller homes than they do today.

We like our conveniences and toys, me do different. But what I also understand it's why we also need more money, and it isn't because of inflation.

I got a new cell phone for my mother. She's a simple old lady that really doesn't understand technology, so I replaced it with the same thing she had before, a simple flip phone. When I went to the Verizon store, they only had three models to choose from. When I asked the customer service person why so little choices, he said nobody buys them. In fact my purchase was the first flip phone he sold in almost three months. Everybody today has a smart phone.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/—-/ And when I was a teen, a new Chevy Impala was about $2,700 fully equipped. Today it’s north of $27,000. So what drove the inflation?

Unions. That's why a lot of people have been buying Japanese cars including myself. Part of that 27K you speak of for a new impala goes to pay legacy costs for retired UAW workers. I believe the last figure I seen was $1,400 per vehicle.

 

[Cellblock2429]

/—-/ And when I was a teen, a new Chevy Impala was about $2,700 fully equipped. Today it’s north of $27,000. So what drove the inflation?

Unions. That's why a lot of people have been buying Japanese cars including myself. Part of that 27K you speak of for a new impala goes to pay legacy costs for retired UAW workers. I believe the last figure I seen was $1,400 per vehicle.

/----/ Also the mandated safety equipment and fuel economy standards. Perhaps car prices wasn't the best example. In 1978 our Cape Cod on Long Island was $48,000. Today the market value is $800,000, at least that's what the Real Estate lady said when she came knocking on our door asking if we want to sell.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

/—-/ And when I was a teen, a new Chevy Impala was about $2,700 fully equipped. Today it’s north of $27,000. So what drove the inflation?

Unions. That's why a lot of people have been buying Japanese cars including myself. Part of that 27K you speak of for a new impala goes to pay legacy costs for retired UAW workers. I believe the last figure I seen was $1,400 per vehicle.

/----/ Also the mandated safety equipment and fuel economy standards. Perhaps car prices wasn't the best example. In 1978 our Cape Cod on Long Island was $48,000. Today the market value is $800,000, at least that's what the Real Estate lady said when she came knocking on our door asking if we want to sell.

I believe it was Roy Rogers who said, buy land.......God ain't making anymore of it.

My father complains about government all the time when it comes to building. He's a retired bricklayer. HIs opinion is that thanks to government, he could never build a house today like he did when we were kids in the 60's. It's simply too unaffordable and too many regulations to go along with it.

So the price of housing moves up. I can't understand how anybody can afford a new home today, especially in those liberal cities and states. Even if you have no intention of a new home, new home prices reflect the used home prices and you're still paying for it.

Banks demand you have enough insurance coverage to totally replace your house in the event of a total destruction. The more it costs to replace the house, the higher premium we pay.

 

[JoeB131]

It would have nothing to do with it. Pork means waste. Wasting money on pet projects to buy votes doesn't stimulate anything. All it really does is put us deeper and deeper into debt. Again, government doesn't create jobs.

First you said infrastructure (construction) would stimulate the economy. I showed you how new construction is already taking place, and now you say it won't make a difference. Once again, you're talking out of your ass and out of your mouth at the same time.

Um, no, it's clear you don't really understand much of what's being explained to you.

Housing starts aren't infrastructure... you just aren't very smart, are you?

Every recession has ended with increased government spending. Better to spend it on infrastructure like Obama and Clinton did than wasteful military spending like Bush and Reagan.

If there is such a bill, then McConnell knows that it's not constitutional. It violates states rights and it will end up at the doors of the Supreme Court.

So forget about those who's jobs are still there, what about the people who's jobs aren't? Think they are going to put any effort into finding new work that pays less? You are going to find very few blue collar workers who don't have bills to pay. Hey, if I can stay on unemployment for three months, I can payoff my car, my credit card, put an extra 3K on my mortgage, buy that big screen that I always wanted.........

Except, again, they were only getting that payment if their bosses were certifying that there was no work available for them. "I invited him back, he refused to come back". - Payments end.

No Dr. OCD, people won't give up opportunity for pride and dignity.

Well, you did, Welfare Ray.

When I was a kid, going to McDonald's was a once or twice a year treat for the family. We were a one car family too. We had one landline telephone for everybody. We had rabbit ears on our television set, and a stereo with an 8-track player for entertainment. Like fast food, movies were a real treat, and weather permitting, it was usually the drive-in. Back then, people lived in smaller homes than they do today.

Again, better technology isn't a better standard of living.

Because my dad had a nice union job, he had good benefits and good pay and could afford to have five kids. He had a lake house in Wisconsin, no way any of his kids could afford such a thing today. (In fact, it takes the combined efforts of six people to keep that property in the family's hands. All our neighbors are rich assholes who never visit their property.)

The thing is, the reason why that technology is affordable is that it's made by a poor person in China who couldn't afford that himself.

 

[Dragonlady]

Just a does of reality for all you Trump haters. The proof is again in the pudding. interestingly, look who benefited the most. But alas, these are the folks that are lock-step with the Democrats. Ignorance at best. We know it has taken a hit due to COVID, but it can be fixed under Trump. It will plummet with Biden.

Real median incomes of white, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from the prior year. Lower-income households did particularly well after missing out on income gains earlier in the expansion. The mean income of the lowest fifth of households rose 9% last year, a larger gain than for any other quintile of households.

U.S. Incomes Up, Poverty Rate Down in 2019

A dose of reality? Ok if the proof is in the pudding I have to say that the income has been going up for five years. Meaning it started durimg Obama's tenure. And it's a virtual certainty the figures for 2020 will not be nearly as rosy of a picture.

So how's that for reality?

LOL...I knew that was coming, which is why I posted the paragraph above. Notice who has gained the most. I might also add, you are attempting to give credit to Obama for the growth and yet Mac is blaming Trump for an impending collapse due to Trump's policies.

Of course the figures won't be as good in 2020. That goes for anywhere in the world. The left has convinced themselves that Trump led our country into this economic downturn, which is laughable.

China caused the downturn of the World Economy when they allowed the Covid Virus to escape and infect the World...

With that written it falls onto our leadership in D.C., State and Local levels to slow and curb the economic collapse if one is happening...

Buck stop somewhere and Truman would have said it stopped with him!

China didn't cause the downturn in the world economy. Donald Trump did it with his tariffs and trade wars. Also, the Chinese didn't "let" covid escape. This pandemic has been predicted for years. As humans encroach on the last wild places in the world and destroy that habitat. The virus escaped because we live in a mobile world and first world people get on jet planes by the thousands.

The corona virus spread throughout the world because business people from all over the world are travelling to China to have their goods produced. Especially people from North America and Europe. And the countries where the spread, the disease, and the death have been the greatest, are those countries whose leadership has refused to follow the advice of the scientists.

The USA, Italy, South America, Great Britain, Russia, Sweden and Spain - all countries where the scientists were poohpoohed and ignored. Notice how Africa and Central America are only being hit now? That's because the least wealthy nations, travel the least.

In terms of the spread of the pandemic, it was spread by travellers to China - business people primarily. Air travel spread it all over the world. I have never flown on a plane and NOT gotten sick the following week. Pressurized cabins with recycled air are petry dishes.

The Trump Cult keeps trying to paint his failure to properly deal with the virus as something that couldn't be helped or stopped. Yes it could and it was in countries with competent leadership and governance. That the USA could in no way slow or stop the spread of the virus shows how utterly incompetent the Trump Administration truly is.

 

[forkup]

When I make claims about costs and efficiencies in my country and draw comparisons, I'm not stating opinions, I'm stating facts based on my own personal knowledge.

Then post your reliable sources and working links to support your "knowledge".

If I'm stating facts based on my own personal knowledge why should I give sources and links? I'm not entirely sure how to go about that. Do you want to see invoices from medical procedures I've had here? Some of my in-laws? I am a reliable source but I have no actual way of demonstrating that without divulging personal information.

I can give you examples of things that happened to my mother-in-law and the severely lacking post-op care she received, and contrast that to my grandmother's care after having the same medical condition. But you have no way of knowing if it's true. I could state that when I receive a script from my GP I can simply go to the pharmacy and get my pills. Not an hour later after some pharmacy tech calls my insurance company to verify that that particular medicine is covered as happens in the US. But again how do you verify that?

I can and have posted an entire slew of reports from the OECD, or other NGO's tracking health indices but my experience tells me that's rejected too. So I tell you what. What do you consider a reliable source, especially when this source tells you something you long believed to be true is wrong?

Because your "personal knowledge" is anecdotal at best, nobody cares what you think because what you think is immaterial. What you can prove is all that matters.

Not actually true. One can have knowledge from personal experience that isn't necessarily anecdotal. Nor is anecdotal evidence neccesarily invalid. I know that nearly everybody has a GP in Belgium. I know that in the US that's less likely. I know that everybody in my country has a state funded insurance, I know that in the US only people meeting certain criteria do. I know I get my medicine immediately in Belgium when I turn in a script. I know in the US there's another step involved. I know that doctors in the US have to take out high malpractice insurances in case they get sued. Here the premiums are lower since the damages awarded if a doctor fucks up are simply lower. Etc. etc.

I know what I ate yesterday for dinner. The fact that I'll have a hell of a time proving that I had taco's to you, doesn't mean it's any less factual all of a sudden.

 

[forkup]

Great! Please explain what I mean by "the most active and aggressive Fed in the history of the country". And please break it down to the actions of the central Fed and the NY Fed over the last three years, AND the long term implications of those actions.

Go ahead. Feel free to get as specific as you'd like.

Oh, and then tell us how long we can engage in massive deficit spending increases.

Thanks in advance.

Meaning, you've got NOTHING!

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull s***!
'

Is that supposed to be some kind of answer?

I already asked you to provide details as to why you think the Biden/Harris plan will be successul and how the fed will change their monetary policy under Biden/Harris. Instead of answering, you filabuster.

So his big reason why people doing better financially doesn't matter is the fed, and the fed will do the exact same thing with Harris. Plus, everyone's gains will be removed, and spending will balloon even higher. Mac, why are you not rooting for people to win in any fashion?

Because we're being terribly fiscally irresponsible. This comes at a cost.

It's sad that I even have to say this.

You can see that lower taxes and regulations give people a better chance to take care of themselves? Despite what the fed is doing, I would have to think common sense practices would still allow wages to rise. Are you saying nothing Trump does is good for the country economically because of what the fed is doing? If nothing matters because of the fed, people have pointed out that the fed behavior will likey be the same under a democrat administration.

How do you make that connection. Wages rose under Obama despite more regulation. We have way more regulations and way higher taxes and people here are capable of taking better care of themselves and their family. I'm not trying to do some gotcha thing but I'd like to know what objective fact you're aware of that leads you to conclude that lower taxes and regulations lead to being better able to take care of yourself?

Note he said taking care of yourself, not being taken care of by the government. Europe has a larger welfare state than the US. Ironically, the US citizens give MUCH more to charity than those in Europe, who rely on government redistribution of wealth. We are much more in control of our personal welfare than those in Europe and I personally like that because I am willing to take on the personal responsibility and the risk that allows me to move up( and down) the economic ladder much more freely than in Europe.

If I work to earn a wage, a wage that allows you too

Great! Please explain what I mean by "the most active and aggressive Fed in the history of the country". And please break it down to the actions of the central Fed and the NY Fed over the last three years, AND the long term implications of those actions.

Go ahead. Feel free to get as specific as you'd like.

Oh, and then tell us how long we can engage in massive deficit spending increases.

Thanks in advance.

Meaning, you've got NOTHING!

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull s***!
'

Is that supposed to be some kind of answer?

I already asked you to provide details as to why you think the Biden/Harris plan will be successul and how the fed will change their monetary policy under Biden/Harris. Instead of answering, you filabuster.

So his big reason why people doing better financially doesn't matter is the fed, and the fed will do the exact same thing with Harris. Plus, everyone's gains will be removed, and spending will balloon even higher. Mac, why are you not rooting for people to win in any fashion?

Because we're being terribly fiscally irresponsible. This comes at a cost.

It's sad that I even have to say this.

You can see that lower taxes and regulations give people a better chance to take care of themselves? Despite what the fed is doing, I would have to think common sense practices would still allow wages to rise. Are you saying nothing Trump does is good for the country economically because of what the fed is doing? If nothing matters because of the fed, people have pointed out that the fed behavior will likey be the same under a democrat administration.

How do you make that connection. Wages rose under Obama despite more regulation. We have way more regulations and way higher taxes and people here are capable of taking better care of themselves and their family. I'm not trying to do some gotcha thing but I'd like to know what objective fact you're aware of that leads you to conclude that lower taxes and regulations lead to being better able to take care of yourself?

Note he said taking care of yourself, not being taken care of by the government. Europe has a larger welfare state than the US. Ironically, the US citizens give MUCH more to charity than those in Europe, who rely on government redistribution of wealth. We are much more in control of our personal welfare than those in Europe and I personally like that because I am willing to take on the personal responsibility and the risk that allows me to move up( and down) the economic ladder much more freely than in Europe.

If I work and make a wage. A wage that allows me to pay taxes and buy goods how am I letting the government take care of me? It's a disconnect I feel often occurs when talking to conservatives. For some reason services payed for by taxes are considered "given". They are not I paid for them.

As to social mobility. The whole concept of student debt is alien to people living here. Who do you think is more mobile in society. A person living in a country that allows everyone to have a higher education without accruing debt regardless of who you parents are? Or a person for whom the best universities are unaffordable unless they themselves are exceptional enough to qualify for a sholarship. And other higher education carries considerable financial burdens?

Higher education is an investment just like the stock market or real estate. People who get a higher education on average will earn more money and be out of work less often than others who are not college educated.

Investments should not be funded by the taxpayers. I can't see spending my working life paying taxes so that somebody can go to school to be a lawyer, and then after they become a lawyer and I need their help, charge me 200 bucks an hour for that help.

Having an army or a fire department or roads for that matter could be considered an investment by your logic. Are you against paying taxes for that?

Not really because everybody benefits equally from those things. A strong military is needed for a world power. It protects our freedoms as well as yours. A fire department usually includes paramedics in case of a medical emergency, and of course a major fire we individuals would not be capable of battling. If one doesn't drive or use the roads we have, their supplies, mail and buses or cabs use those roads to transport them where they need to go.

Advanced education only benefits individuals, not everybody. I don't care if you get a job emptying garbage or become an accountant. It's not an advantage or disadvantage either way for me. However you will make a better living, have a less physical job by becoming an accountant, so only you benefit.

Not everybody benefits equally on roads. Nobody benefits from having an army if there's no war. Not everybody benefits equally from having a fire department. Some people never experience a fire or are in need of a paramedic. An interstate between Oregon and California does nothing for someone living in the Boondocks in Alabama. You accept that having those things are necessary for the benefit of society as a whole or an insurance policy if necessary. But for some reason giving everybody a chance to get a higher education is unacceptable because you might not personally benefit.

"Not everybody benefits equally on roads."

Equally? An immaterial concept as applied.


"Nobody benefits from having an army if there's no war"

They absolutely do, Militaries are not simply for fighting. They are just as valuable when serving as a deterrent to the fighting, in fact I would say more.

"Not everybody benefits equally from having a fire department"

This obsession with equality as you define it renders your arguments useless as well as biased. Again in this case it is immaterial. In fact since the discussion later on evolves to Insurance every one of these services/entities/objects are just that, forms of insurance (as you said) provided by not the Gov, but by the people who pay the taxes. Governments do not make money, they take it.

"An interstate between Oregon and California does nothing for someone living in the Boondocks in Alabama"

Again, immaterial. People in their respective states pay for those interstates and when the Feds get involved they do so in every state.

"But for some reason giving everybody a chance to get a higher education is unacceptable because you might not personally benefit."

Everybody does have that chance most simply choose not to.

forkup DustyInfinity

Well done, both of you. Best' most civil discussion here I've seen.

I think you kind of missed the point I was making. Ray objects to paying taxes in order to make education affordable for anybody. My point is that there are plenty of examples of paying taxes for certain services that don't necessarily benefit everybody on an equal bases, or even at all. Something I don't think you disagree with reading through your post.

 

[kaz]

/—-/ And when I was a teen, a new Chevy Impala was about $2,700 fully equipped. Today it’s north of $27,000. So what drove the inflation?

Unions. That's why a lot of people have been buying Japanese cars including myself. Part of that 27K you speak of for a new impala goes to pay legacy costs for retired UAW workers. I believe the last figure I seen was $1,400 per vehicle.

/----/ Also the mandated safety equipment and fuel economy standards. Perhaps car prices wasn't the best example. In 1978 our Cape Cod on Long Island was $48,000. Today the market value is $800,000, at least that's what the Real Estate lady said when she came knocking on our door asking if we want to sell.

I believe it was Roy Rogers who said, buy land.......God ain't making anymore of it.

My father complains about government all the time when it comes to building. He's a retired bricklayer. HIs opinion is that thanks to government, he could never build a house today like he did when we were kids in the 60's. It's simply too unaffordable and too many regulations to go along with it.

So the price of housing moves up. I can't understand how anybody can afford a new home today, especially in those liberal cities and states. Even if you have no intention of a new home, new home prices reflect the used home prices and you're still paying for it.

Banks demand you have enough insurance coverage to totally replace your house in the event of a total destruction. The more it costs to replace the house, the higher premium we pay.

Ray From Cleveland: "I believe it was Roy Rogers who said, buy land.......God ain't making anymore of it"

LOL. The Dutch don't agree with that. I used to live there. They always said, "God created the world, but the Dutch created the Netherlands" ...

 

[kaz]

Great! Please explain what I mean by "the most active and aggressive Fed in the history of the country". And please break it down to the actions of the central Fed and the NY Fed over the last three years, AND the long term implications of those actions.

Go ahead. Feel free to get as specific as you'd like.

Oh, and then tell us how long we can engage in massive deficit spending increases.

Thanks in advance.

Meaning, you've got NOTHING!

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull s***!
'

Is that supposed to be some kind of answer?

I already asked you to provide details as to why you think the Biden/Harris plan will be successul and how the fed will change their monetary policy under Biden/Harris. Instead of answering, you filabuster.

So his big reason why people doing better financially doesn't matter is the fed, and the fed will do the exact same thing with Harris. Plus, everyone's gains will be removed, and spending will balloon even higher. Mac, why are you not rooting for people to win in any fashion?

Because we're being terribly fiscally irresponsible. This comes at a cost.

It's sad that I even have to say this.

You can see that lower taxes and regulations give people a better chance to take care of themselves? Despite what the fed is doing, I would have to think common sense practices would still allow wages to rise. Are you saying nothing Trump does is good for the country economically because of what the fed is doing? If nothing matters because of the fed, people have pointed out that the fed behavior will likey be the same under a democrat administration.

How do you make that connection. Wages rose under Obama despite more regulation. We have way more regulations and way higher taxes and people here are capable of taking better care of themselves and their family. I'm not trying to do some gotcha thing but I'd like to know what objective fact you're aware of that leads you to conclude that lower taxes and regulations lead to being better able to take care of yourself?

Note he said taking care of yourself, not being taken care of by the government. Europe has a larger welfare state than the US. Ironically, the US citizens give MUCH more to charity than those in Europe, who rely on government redistribution of wealth. We are much more in control of our personal welfare than those in Europe and I personally like that because I am willing to take on the personal responsibility and the risk that allows me to move up( and down) the economic ladder much more freely than in Europe.

If I work to earn a wage, a wage that allows you too

Great! Please explain what I mean by "the most active and aggressive Fed in the history of the country". And please break it down to the actions of the central Fed and the NY Fed over the last three years, AND the long term implications of those actions.

Go ahead. Feel free to get as specific as you'd like.

Oh, and then tell us how long we can engage in massive deficit spending increases.

Thanks in advance.

Meaning, you've got NOTHING!

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull s***!
'

Is that supposed to be some kind of answer?

I already asked you to provide details as to why you think the Biden/Harris plan will be successul and how the fed will change their monetary policy under Biden/Harris. Instead of answering, you filabuster.

So his big reason why people doing better financially doesn't matter is the fed, and the fed will do the exact same thing with Harris. Plus, everyone's gains will be removed, and spending will balloon even higher. Mac, why are you not rooting for people to win in any fashion?

Because we're being terribly fiscally irresponsible. This comes at a cost.

It's sad that I even have to say this.

You can see that lower taxes and regulations give people a better chance to take care of themselves? Despite what the fed is doing, I would have to think common sense practices would still allow wages to rise. Are you saying nothing Trump does is good for the country economically because of what the fed is doing? If nothing matters because of the fed, people have pointed out that the fed behavior will likey be the same under a democrat administration.

How do you make that connection. Wages rose under Obama despite more regulation. We have way more regulations and way higher taxes and people here are capable of taking better care of themselves and their family. I'm not trying to do some gotcha thing but I'd like to know what objective fact you're aware of that leads you to conclude that lower taxes and regulations lead to being better able to take care of yourself?

Note he said taking care of yourself, not being taken care of by the government. Europe has a larger welfare state than the US. Ironically, the US citizens give MUCH more to charity than those in Europe, who rely on government redistribution of wealth. We are much more in control of our personal welfare than those in Europe and I personally like that because I am willing to take on the personal responsibility and the risk that allows me to move up( and down) the economic ladder much more freely than in Europe.

If I work and make a wage. A wage that allows me to pay taxes and buy goods how am I letting the government take care of me? It's a disconnect I feel often occurs when talking to conservatives. For some reason services payed for by taxes are considered "given". They are not I paid for them.

As to social mobility. The whole concept of student debt is alien to people living here. Who do you think is more mobile in society. A person living in a country that allows everyone to have a higher education without accruing debt regardless of who you parents are? Or a person for whom the best universities are unaffordable unless they themselves are exceptional enough to qualify for a sholarship. And other higher education carries considerable financial burdens?

Higher education is an investment just like the stock market or real estate. People who get a higher education on average will earn more money and be out of work less often than others who are not college educated.

Investments should not be funded by the taxpayers. I can't see spending my working life paying taxes so that somebody can go to school to be a lawyer, and then after they become a lawyer and I need their help, charge me 200 bucks an hour for that help.

Having an army or a fire department or roads for that matter could be considered an investment by your logic. Are you against paying taxes for that?

Not really because everybody benefits equally from those things. A strong military is needed for a world power. It protects our freedoms as well as yours. A fire department usually includes paramedics in case of a medical emergency, and of course a major fire we individuals would not be capable of battling. If one doesn't drive or use the roads we have, their supplies, mail and buses or cabs use those roads to transport them where they need to go.

Advanced education only benefits individuals, not everybody. I don't care if you get a job emptying garbage or become an accountant. It's not an advantage or disadvantage either way for me. However you will make a better living, have a less physical job by becoming an accountant, so only you benefit.

Not everybody benefits equally on roads. Nobody benefits from having an army if there's no war. Not everybody benefits equally from having a fire department. Some people never experience a fire or are in need of a paramedic. An interstate between Oregon and California does nothing for someone living in the Boondocks in Alabama. You accept that having those things are necessary for the benefit of society as a whole or an insurance policy if necessary. But for some reason giving everybody a chance to get a higher education is unacceptable because you might not personally benefit.

"Not everybody benefits equally on roads."

Equally? An immaterial concept as applied.


"Nobody benefits from having an army if there's no war"

They absolutely do, Militaries are not simply for fighting. They are just as valuable when serving as a deterrent to the fighting, in fact I would say more.

"Not everybody benefits equally from having a fire department"

This obsession with equality as you define it renders your arguments useless as well as biased. Again in this case it is immaterial. In fact since the discussion later on evolves to Insurance every one of these services/entities/objects are just that, forms of insurance (as you said) provided by not the Gov, but by the people who pay the taxes. Governments do not make money, they take it.

"An interstate between Oregon and California does nothing for someone living in the Boondocks in Alabama"

Again, immaterial. People in their respective states pay for those interstates and when the Feds get involved they do so in every state.

"But for some reason giving everybody a chance to get a higher education is unacceptable because you might not personally benefit."

Everybody does have that chance most simply choose not to.

forkup DustyInfinity

Well done, both of you. Best' most civil discussion here I've seen.

I think you kind of missed the point I was making. Ray objects to paying taxes in order to make education affordable for anybody. My point is that there are plenty of examples of paying taxes for certain services that don't necessarily benefit everybody on an equal bases. Something I don't think you disagree with reading through your post.

Government should never confiscate money at the point of a gun and redistribute it. There's a term for that. Armed robbery

 

[Markle]

Every recession has ended with increased government spending. Better to spend it on infrastructure like Obama and Clinton did than wasteful military spending like Bush and Reagan.

Not true. Please see the 1921 depression.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Just a does of reality for all you Trump haters. The proof is again in the pudding. interestingly, look who benefited the most. But alas, these are the folks that are lock-step with the Democrats. Ignorance at best. We know it has taken a hit due to COVID, but it can be fixed under Trump. It will plummet with Biden.

Real median incomes of white, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from the prior year. Lower-income households did particularly well after missing out on income gains earlier in the expansion. The mean income of the lowest fifth of households rose 9% last year, a larger gain than for any other quintile of households.

U.S. Incomes Up, Poverty Rate Down in 2019

A dose of reality? Ok if the proof is in the pudding I have to say that the income has been going up for five years. Meaning it started durimg Obama's tenure. And it's a virtual certainty the figures for 2020 will not be nearly as rosy of a picture.

So how's that for reality?

LOL...I knew that was coming, which is why I posted the paragraph above. Notice who has gained the most. I might also add, you are attempting to give credit to Obama for the growth and yet Mac is blaming Trump for an impending collapse due to Trump's policies.

Of course the figures won't be as good in 2020. That goes for anywhere in the world. The left has convinced themselves that Trump led our country into this economic downturn, which is laughable.

China caused the downturn of the World Economy when they allowed the Covid Virus to escape and infect the World...

With that written it falls onto our leadership in D.C., State and Local levels to slow and curb the economic collapse if one is happening...

Buck stop somewhere and Truman would have said it stopped with him!

China didn't cause the downturn in the world economy. Donald Trump did it with his tariffs and trade wars. Also, the Chinese didn't "let" covid escape. This pandemic has been predicted for years. As humans encroach on the last wild places in the world and destroy that habitat. The virus escaped because we live in a mobile world and first world people get on jet planes by the thousands.

The corona virus spread throughout the world because business people from all over the world are travelling to China to have their goods produced. Especially people from North America and Europe. And the countries where the spread, the disease, and the death have been the greatest, are those countries whose leadership has refused to follow the advice of the scientists.

The USA, Italy, South America, Great Britain, Russia, Sweden and Spain - all countries where the scientists were poohpoohed and ignored. Notice how Africa and Central America are only being hit now? That's because the least wealthy nations, travel the least.

In terms of the spread of the pandemic, it was spread by travellers to China - business people primarily. Air travel spread it all over the world. I have never flown on a plane and NOT gotten sick the following week. Pressurized cabins with recycled air are petry dishes.

The Trump Cult keeps trying to paint his failure to properly deal with the virus as something that couldn't be helped or stopped. Yes it could and it was in countries with competent leadership and governance. That the USA could in no way slow or stop the spread of the virus shows how utterly incompetent the Trump Administration truly is.

/----/ " Donald Trump did it with his tariffs and trade wars."
And yet before Covid the economy was growing by leaps and bounds and other nations negotiated better tariff deals with the US. Imagine that.

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Just a does of reality for all you Trump haters. The proof is again in the pudding. interestingly, look who benefited the most. But alas, these are the folks that are lock-step with the Democrats. Ignorance at best. We know it has taken a hit due to COVID, but it can be fixed under Trump. It will plummet with Biden.

Real median incomes of white, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from the prior year. Lower-income households did particularly well after missing out on income gains earlier in the expansion. The mean income of the lowest fifth of households rose 9% last year, a larger gain than for any other quintile of households.

U.S. Incomes Up, Poverty Rate Down in 2019

A dose of reality? Ok if the proof is in the pudding I have to say that the income has been going up for five years. Meaning it started durimg Obama's tenure. And it's a virtual certainty the figures for 2020 will not be nearly as rosy of a picture.

So how's that for reality?

LOL...I knew that was coming, which is why I posted the paragraph above. Notice who has gained the most. I might also add, you are attempting to give credit to Obama for the growth and yet Mac is blaming Trump for an impending collapse due to Trump's policies.

Of course the figures won't be as good in 2020. That goes for anywhere in the world. The left has convinced themselves that Trump led our country into this economic downturn, which is laughable.

China caused the downturn of the World Economy when they allowed the Covid Virus to escape and infect the World...

With that written it falls onto our leadership in D.C., State and Local levels to slow and curb the economic collapse if one is happening...

Buck stop somewhere and Truman would have said it stopped with him!

China didn't cause the downturn in the world economy. Donald Trump did it with his tariffs and trade wars. Also, the Chinese didn't "let" covid escape. This pandemic has been predicted for years. As humans encroach on the last wild places in the world and destroy that habitat. The virus escaped because we live in a mobile world and first world people get on jet planes by the thousands.

The corona virus spread throughout the world because business people from all over the world are travelling to China to have their goods produced. Especially people from North America and Europe. And the countries where the spread, the disease, and the death have been the greatest, are those countries whose leadership has refused to follow the advice of the scientists.

The USA, Italy, South America, Great Britain, Russia, Sweden and Spain - all countries where the scientists were poohpoohed and ignored. Notice how Africa and Central America are only being hit now? That's because the least wealthy nations, travel the least.

In terms of the spread of the pandemic, it was spread by travellers to China - business people primarily. Air travel spread it all over the world. I have never flown on a plane and NOT gotten sick the following week. Pressurized cabins with recycled air are petry dishes.

The Trump Cult keeps trying to paint his failure to properly deal with the virus as something that couldn't be helped or stopped. Yes it could and it was in countries with competent leadership and governance. That the USA could in no way slow or stop the spread of the virus shows how utterly incompetent the Trump Administration truly is.

The virus originated in China, so it is their fault for it spread and not the fault of America, Italy or Iran!

Next, China closed it factories sections which caused the crash of the World Markets back in January and for you to lie is not surprising at all!

Final, I can provide exact dates when the virus was known by Chinese officials and their unwillingness to close the region which allow the escape of the virus but as usual you will claim something different because the truth is you are another person that support the Communist Party of China!

Now refute what I wrote with actual facts and not your opinion as usual and did you ever learn the difference between DFW and Dulles?

 

[Devils_Advocate]

Just a does of reality for all you Trump haters. The proof is again in the pudding. interestingly, look who benefited the most. But alas, these are the folks that are lock-step with the Democrats. Ignorance at best. We know it has taken a hit due to COVID, but it can be fixed under Trump. It will plummet with Biden.

Real median incomes of white, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from the prior year. Lower-income households did particularly well after missing out on income gains earlier in the expansion. The mean income of the lowest fifth of households rose 9% last year, a larger gain than for any other quintile of households.

U.S. Incomes Up, Poverty Rate Down in 2019

A dose of reality? Ok if the proof is in the pudding I have to say that the income has been going up for five years. Meaning it started durimg Obama's tenure. And it's a virtual certainty the figures for 2020 will not be nearly as rosy of a picture.

So how's that for reality?

LOL...I knew that was coming, which is why I posted the paragraph above. Notice who has gained the most. I might also add, you are attempting to give credit to Obama for the growth and yet Mac is blaming Trump for an impending collapse due to Trump's policies.

Of course the figures won't be as good in 2020. That goes for anywhere in the world. The left has convinced themselves that Trump led our country into this economic downturn, which is laughable.

China caused the downturn of the World Economy when they allowed the Covid Virus to escape and infect the World...

With that written it falls onto our leadership in D.C., State and Local levels to slow and curb the economic collapse if one is happening...

Buck stop somewhere and Truman would have said it stopped with him!

China didn't cause the downturn in the world economy. Donald Trump did it with his tariffs and trade wars. Also, the Chinese didn't "let" covid escape. This pandemic has been predicted for years. As humans encroach on the last wild places in the world and destroy that habitat. The virus escaped because we live in a mobile world and first world people get on jet planes by the thousands.

The corona virus spread throughout the world because business people from all over the world are travelling to China to have their goods produced. Especially people from North America and Europe. And the countries where the spread, the disease, and the death have been the greatest, are those countries whose leadership has refused to follow the advice of the scientists.

The USA, Italy, South America, Great Britain, Russia, Sweden and Spain - all countries where the scientists were poohpoohed and ignored. Notice how Africa and Central America are only being hit now? That's because the least wealthy nations, travel the least.

In terms of the spread of the pandemic, it was spread by travellers to China - business people primarily. Air travel spread it all over the world. I have never flown on a plane and NOT gotten sick the following week. Pressurized cabins with recycled air are petry dishes.

The Trump Cult keeps trying to paint his failure to properly deal with the virus as something that couldn't be helped or stopped. Yes it could and it was in countries with competent leadership and governance. That the USA could in no way slow or stop the spread of the virus shows how utterly incompetent the Trump Administration truly is.

/----/ " Donald Trump did it with his tariffs and trade wars."
And yet before Covid the economy was growing by leaps and bounds and other nations negotiated better tariff deals with the US. Imagine that.

She is in denial about when China closed it factories in January which started the economic crash around the World...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Great! Please explain what I mean by "the most active and aggressive Fed in the history of the country". And please break it down to the actions of the central Fed and the NY Fed over the last three years, AND the long term implications of those actions.

Go ahead. Feel free to get as specific as you'd like.

Oh, and then tell us how long we can engage in massive deficit spending increases.

Thanks in advance.

Meaning, you've got NOTHING!

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull s***!
'

Is that supposed to be some kind of answer?

I already asked you to provide details as to why you think the Biden/Harris plan will be successul and how the fed will change their monetary policy under Biden/Harris. Instead of answering, you filabuster.

So his big reason why people doing better financially doesn't matter is the fed, and the fed will do the exact same thing with Harris. Plus, everyone's gains will be removed, and spending will balloon even higher. Mac, why are you not rooting for people to win in any fashion?

Because we're being terribly fiscally irresponsible. This comes at a cost.

It's sad that I even have to say this.

You can see that lower taxes and regulations give people a better chance to take care of themselves? Despite what the fed is doing, I would have to think common sense practices would still allow wages to rise. Are you saying nothing Trump does is good for the country economically because of what the fed is doing? If nothing matters because of the fed, people have pointed out that the fed behavior will likey be the same under a democrat administration.

How do you make that connection. Wages rose under Obama despite more regulation. We have way more regulations and way higher taxes and people here are capable of taking better care of themselves and their family. I'm not trying to do some gotcha thing but I'd like to know what objective fact you're aware of that leads you to conclude that lower taxes and regulations lead to being better able to take care of yourself?

Note he said taking care of yourself, not being taken care of by the government. Europe has a larger welfare state than the US. Ironically, the US citizens give MUCH more to charity than those in Europe, who rely on government redistribution of wealth. We are much more in control of our personal welfare than those in Europe and I personally like that because I am willing to take on the personal responsibility and the risk that allows me to move up( and down) the economic ladder much more freely than in Europe.

If I work to earn a wage, a wage that allows you too

Great! Please explain what I mean by "the most active and aggressive Fed in the history of the country". And please break it down to the actions of the central Fed and the NY Fed over the last three years, AND the long term implications of those actions.

Go ahead. Feel free to get as specific as you'd like.

Oh, and then tell us how long we can engage in massive deficit spending increases.

Thanks in advance.

Meaning, you've got NOTHING!

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull s***!
'

Is that supposed to be some kind of answer?

I already asked you to provide details as to why you think the Biden/Harris plan will be successul and how the fed will change their monetary policy under Biden/Harris. Instead of answering, you filabuster.

So his big reason why people doing better financially doesn't matter is the fed, and the fed will do the exact same thing with Harris. Plus, everyone's gains will be removed, and spending will balloon even higher. Mac, why are you not rooting for people to win in any fashion?

Because we're being terribly fiscally irresponsible. This comes at a cost.

It's sad that I even have to say this.

You can see that lower taxes and regulations give people a better chance to take care of themselves? Despite what the fed is doing, I would have to think common sense practices would still allow wages to rise. Are you saying nothing Trump does is good for the country economically because of what the fed is doing? If nothing matters because of the fed, people have pointed out that the fed behavior will likey be the same under a democrat administration.

How do you make that connection. Wages rose under Obama despite more regulation. We have way more regulations and way higher taxes and people here are capable of taking better care of themselves and their family. I'm not trying to do some gotcha thing but I'd like to know what objective fact you're aware of that leads you to conclude that lower taxes and regulations lead to being better able to take care of yourself?

Note he said taking care of yourself, not being taken care of by the government. Europe has a larger welfare state than the US. Ironically, the US citizens give MUCH more to charity than those in Europe, who rely on government redistribution of wealth. We are much more in control of our personal welfare than those in Europe and I personally like that because I am willing to take on the personal responsibility and the risk that allows me to move up( and down) the economic ladder much more freely than in Europe.

If I work and make a wage. A wage that allows me to pay taxes and buy goods how am I letting the government take care of me? It's a disconnect I feel often occurs when talking to conservatives. For some reason services payed for by taxes are considered "given". They are not I paid for them.

As to social mobility. The whole concept of student debt is alien to people living here. Who do you think is more mobile in society. A person living in a country that allows everyone to have a higher education without accruing debt regardless of who you parents are? Or a person for whom the best universities are unaffordable unless they themselves are exceptional enough to qualify for a sholarship. And other higher education carries considerable financial burdens?

Higher education is an investment just like the stock market or real estate. People who get a higher education on average will earn more money and be out of work less often than others who are not college educated.

Investments should not be funded by the taxpayers. I can't see spending my working life paying taxes so that somebody can go to school to be a lawyer, and then after they become a lawyer and I need their help, charge me 200 bucks an hour for that help.

Having an army or a fire department or roads for that matter could be considered an investment by your logic. Are you against paying taxes for that?

Not really because everybody benefits equally from those things. A strong military is needed for a world power. It protects our freedoms as well as yours. A fire department usually includes paramedics in case of a medical emergency, and of course a major fire we individuals would not be capable of battling. If one doesn't drive or use the roads we have, their supplies, mail and buses or cabs use those roads to transport them where they need to go.

Advanced education only benefits individuals, not everybody. I don't care if you get a job emptying garbage or become an accountant. It's not an advantage or disadvantage either way for me. However you will make a better living, have a less physical job by becoming an accountant, so only you benefit.

Not everybody benefits equally on roads. Nobody benefits from having an army if there's no war. Not everybody benefits equally from having a fire department. Some people never experience a fire or are in need of a paramedic. An interstate between Oregon and California does nothing for someone living in the Boondocks in Alabama. You accept that having those things are necessary for the benefit of society as a whole or an insurance policy if necessary. But for some reason giving everybody a chance to get a higher education is unacceptable because you might not personally benefit.

"Not everybody benefits equally on roads."

Equally? An immaterial concept as applied.


"Nobody benefits from having an army if there's no war"

They absolutely do, Militaries are not simply for fighting. They are just as valuable when serving as a deterrent to the fighting, in fact I would say more.

"Not everybody benefits equally from having a fire department"

This obsession with equality as you define it renders your arguments useless as well as biased. Again in this case it is immaterial. In fact since the discussion later on evolves to Insurance every one of these services/entities/objects are just that, forms of insurance (as you said) provided by not the Gov, but by the people who pay the taxes. Governments do not make money, they take it.

"An interstate between Oregon and California does nothing for someone living in the Boondocks in Alabama"

Again, immaterial. People in their respective states pay for those interstates and when the Feds get involved they do so in every state.

"But for some reason giving everybody a chance to get a higher education is unacceptable because you might not personally benefit."

Everybody does have that chance most simply choose not to.

forkup DustyInfinity

Well done, both of you. Best' most civil discussion here I've seen.

I think you kind of missed the point I was making. Ray objects to paying taxes in order to make education affordable for anybody. My point is that there are plenty of examples of paying taxes for certain services that don't necessarily benefit everybody on an equal bases, or even at all. Something I don't think you disagree with reading through your post.

I never said everybody had to benefit. But at least if most do I am less objectionable. College is a small percentage of our society, therefore you are taxing everybody to take care of them, when they are at the age they should be taking care of themselves.

More than that, we are a country of 25 trillion in debt. If your household was in serious and dangerous debt, you would cut every unnecessary spending you possibly could. That's what I feel government should do, not spend even more.

If you can't pay for college, stay at home, work for a few years saving as much as you can, then go to college and work when you're not in school. That's the way people have done it for generations.

 

[Markle]

China didn't cause the downturn in the world economy. Donald Trump did it with his tariffs and trade wars. Also, the Chinese didn't "let" covid escape. This pandemic has been predicted for years. As humans encroach on the last wild places in the world and destroy that habitat. The virus escaped because we live in a mobile world and first world people get on jet planes by the thousands.

Just to touch on one of your irrational rants.

Our economy was at record levels with the renegotiation of trade agreements and tariffs put in place by President Trump.

The economy crashed, as you know, due to China concealing the truth about COVID-19 with the help of the World Health Organization (WHO). Certainly, you recall the fact that the WHO informed the world that the virus was not communicative among humans.

In my personal opinion, you are right about China not "letting" COVID-19 escape. China allowed the virus to escape from the Wuhan viral laboratory. I'm curious too, how did the flying public, cause the virus to escape?

Who put travel bans on before virtually any other nation and was severely criticized by Joe Biden and the other Democrats? Is this difficult for you to grasp?

We were also the best-prepared nation for a pandemic.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Just a does of reality for all you Trump haters. The proof is again in the pudding. interestingly, look who benefited the most. But alas, these are the folks that are lock-step with the Democrats. Ignorance at best. We know it has taken a hit due to COVID, but it can be fixed under Trump. It will plummet with Biden.

Real median incomes of white, Black, Asian, and Hispanic households all increased from the prior year. Lower-income households did particularly well after missing out on income gains earlier in the expansion. The mean income of the lowest fifth of households rose 9% last year, a larger gain than for any other quintile of households.

U.S. Incomes Up, Poverty Rate Down in 2019

A dose of reality? Ok if the proof is in the pudding I have to say that the income has been going up for five years. Meaning it started durimg Obama's tenure. And it's a virtual certainty the figures for 2020 will not be nearly as rosy of a picture.

So how's that for reality?

LOL...I knew that was coming, which is why I posted the paragraph above. Notice who has gained the most. I might also add, you are attempting to give credit to Obama for the growth and yet Mac is blaming Trump for an impending collapse due to Trump's policies.

Of course the figures won't be as good in 2020. That goes for anywhere in the world. The left has convinced themselves that Trump led our country into this economic downturn, which is laughable.

China caused the downturn of the World Economy when they allowed the Covid Virus to escape and infect the World...

With that written it falls onto our leadership in D.C., State and Local levels to slow and curb the economic collapse if one is happening...

Buck stop somewhere and Truman would have said it stopped with him!

China didn't cause the downturn in the world economy. Donald Trump did it with his tariffs and trade wars. Also, the Chinese didn't "let" covid escape. This pandemic has been predicted for years. As humans encroach on the last wild places in the world and destroy that habitat. The virus escaped because we live in a mobile world and first world people get on jet planes by the thousands.

The corona virus spread throughout the world because business people from all over the world are travelling to China to have their goods produced. Especially people from North America and Europe. And the countries where the spread, the disease, and the death have been the greatest, are those countries whose leadership has refused to follow the advice of the scientists.

The USA, Italy, South America, Great Britain, Russia, Sweden and Spain - all countries where the scientists were poohpoohed and ignored. Notice how Africa and Central America are only being hit now? That's because the least wealthy nations, travel the least.

In terms of the spread of the pandemic, it was spread by travellers to China - business people primarily. Air travel spread it all over the world. I have never flown on a plane and NOT gotten sick the following week. Pressurized cabins with recycled air are petry dishes.

The Trump Cult keeps trying to paint his failure to properly deal with the virus as something that couldn't be helped or stopped. Yes it could and it was in countries with competent leadership and governance. That the USA could in no way slow or stop the spread of the virus shows how utterly incompetent the Trump Administration truly is.

And with all of Trump's so called F-ups, your economy did worse than ours. Plus the fact your country is only right below ours in deaths. Do you heavily criticize your leaders and other leaders as well? Of course not. Only Trump.

Which top economies have suffered worst GDP fall due to COVID-19?

Barring China, the world's second-largest economy, all other major economies have felt the negative impact of coronavirus pandemic

www.businesstoday.in

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Um, no, it's clear you don't really understand much of what's being explained to you.

Housing starts aren't infrastructure... you just aren't very smart, are you?

Every recession has ended with increased government spending. Better to spend it on infrastructure like Obama and Clinton did than wasteful military spending like Bush and Reagan.

It's clear you have no understanding. What is infrastructure? It's construction. What is new housing? It's construction.

Well, you did, Welfare Ray.

No, I did everything I could to keep my job. I was forced out. It wasn't an option.

Again, better technology isn't a better standard of living.

Because my dad had a nice union job, he had good benefits and good pay and could afford to have five kids. He had a lake house in Wisconsin, no way any of his kids could afford such a thing today. (In fact, it takes the combined efforts of six people to keep that property in the family's hands. All our neighbors are rich assholes who never visit their property.)

The thing is, the reason why that technology is affordable is that it's made by a poor person in China who couldn't afford that himself.

They can afford it, at least many of the people. That's why technology is produced there.

China now as big a market for Apple as Europe after strong growth & iPhone X success - 9to5Mac

Recent analyst and market intelligence company reports on Apple’s performance in China have been pessimistic to say the least. The...

9to5mac.com

I never said that better technology is a better standard of living. What I said is that this is where much of our disposable income goes to. Disposable income is what's left over after all the necessities are paid like housing, food, utilities and so on.

While it might not seem like much, think of all the money you'd have without a cable bill, without a cell phone bill, without an internet connection, without going to fast food restaurant or any other restaurant for that matter. It really adds up.