Zone1 I'm not religious, but .......

[Meriweather]

He was jealous. Just because there wasnt a word for it doesnt mean the emotion didnt exist.

The Hebrew teaching is that one cannot follow some of the laws of God and ignore others. In that regard the Law is "jealous" because it doesn't work well if the Law is only a "sometimes" thing.

New Testament advises much the same: We cannot serve two masters as we will come to love one but not the other.

Note that the Law is...and the Masters are....It is not they who are affected by our choice, it is we who are affected. We do not get the full benefit of the gifts of the Law, and we are divided if we choose to try to devote all we are into two.

 

[TNHarley]

The Hebrew teaching is that one cannot follow some of the laws of God and ignore others. In that regard the Law is "jealous" because it doesn't work well if the Law is only a "sometimes" thing.

New Testament advises much the same: We cannot serve two masters as we will come to love one but not the other.

Note that the Law is...and the Masters are....It is not they who are affected by our choice, it is we who are affected. We do not get the full benefit of the gifts of the Law, and we are divided if we choose to try to devote all we are into two.

IE jealousy

 

[Meriweather]

Of course she did blame God. It's clear as a bell. I said that the great apostasy was still going on.

Two prisoners look out through the bars. One sees mud, the other sees stars. There was much more than mud/apostasy in the 1500s. There is as much mud (apostasy) today as there was in the time of our ancestors. Always will be. There was and will be also be stars. Always.

 

[Meriweather]

IE jealousy

Can the Law be jealous?

 

[Votto]

I heard a man of faith once say, the hardest question to answer being a person of faith is how there can be suffering in a universe created by a loving God.

But he paused and said, those not of faith have it even harder because they have to explain everything else.

But the way I see it, the key is love. What is love? Love is the ability to accept or reject the other party. Without such ability, there is not love, thus we have the ability to reject God if we choose. And once sin is introduced into the world due to the rejection of God and his love, sin effects everyone and everything around it.

Love is a double edged sword in that respect. It will cut you.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Its just excuses as to why people that believe in their god and do good, still get crapped on.
You blame god for the good things. You dont blame god for the bad. Or they say he is doing it for your own good.
Not sure how your 5 year old dying from cancer is good but whatever

Prometheus Unchained

The true supernatural one is the genius who conquers nature, such as curing childhood cancer. Modern inventions, if transported by a power-seeking clergy-type to the past, would be considered miracles. But, as is the nature of evil, the one who transported them would claim that they are his own inventions.

 

[Cougarbear]

Two prisoners look out through the bars. One sees mud, the other sees stars. There was much more than mud/apostasy in the 1500s. There is as much mud (apostasy) today as there was in the time of our ancestors. Always will be. There was and will be also be stars. Always.

Not so. Between 421AD and 1820, there was complete apostasy in all the world. Now, many still had some faith in God but the Gospel did not exist in a way that would allow anyone to achieve salvation let alone exaltation. The ordinances required had no one with the authority of God to perform them in that time period. All that began to change in 1820 when the Father and Son opened back up revelation and communication through Prophets and Apostles again. While there is a large number of people not hearing and following the authority of God, the authority still exists and is in 170 countries around the world.

 

[Meriweather]

421AD and 1820, there was complete apostasy

I have recommended other faiths/denominations to others--but not once, nor will I ever recommend the LDS Church. Why? Because I never recommend to anyone to take part in a group that feels such an absolute need to demolish another and is so disrespectful of the beliefs of others.
We have nothing to say to each other.

 

[SweetSue92]

the word might have but the emotion isnt.
Why would something so powerful and intelligent be jealous? Makes no sense at all.
I dont doubt a creator but if that is how we came to be, they wouldnt be jealous.

Right. Because none of this makes any sense without a Creator. I agree.

The rest of it is you trying to make sense of evil and of a world that's not the end yet. It is the valid, "why isn't this perfect"?

Because it's not the end.

 

[TNHarley]

Right. Because none of this makes any sense without a Creator. I agree.

The rest of it is you trying to make sense of evil and of a world that's not the end yet. It is the valid, "why isn't this perfect"?

Because it's not the end.

I didnt say that.

 

[SweetSue92]

I didnt say that.

You argued from suffering and from a jealous God.

To both of those the answer is: this is not the end yet. We have had the beginning. We are in the middle. It's not the end.

 

[TNHarley]

You argued from suffering and from a jealous God.

To both of those the answer is: this is not the end yet. We have had the beginning. We are in the middle. It's not the end.

No, I didnt say "none of this makes sense without a creator"

 

[SweetSue92]

No, I didnt say "none of this makes sense without a creator"

Okay. You said you don't doubt a creator. So why is that? I would have to assume because none of this makes sense without one, for the reasons I posted earlier. When faced with an atheistic view on life/humanity/the universe--it is nonsensical. It's not how any of us live. Not even atheists.

 

[TNHarley]

Okay. You said you don't doubt a creator. So why is that? I would have to assume because none of this makes sense without one, for the reasons I posted earlier. When faced with an atheistic view on life/humanity/the universe--it is nonsensical. It's not how any of us live. Not even atheists.

Because there is no evidence for or against it and i am open minded. I even dont disregard the astronaut theory. Or evolution. or the big bang.
I am not an atheist. I am agnostic.

 

[SweetSue92]

Because there is no evidence for or against it and i am open minded. I even dont disregard the astronaut theory. Or evolution. or the big bang.
I am not an atheist. I am agnostic.

Watch and listen to some theoretical physicists and see how it sounds trying to piece this all together without a creator. I laugh out loud at it. For real.

 

[TNHarley]

Watch and listen to some theoretical physicists and see how it sounds trying to piece this all together without a creator. I laugh out loud at it. For real.

I wont argue. A "creator" is the easiest answer as most questions cant be answered yet.

 

[Cougarbear]

theyI have recommended other faiths/denominations to others--but not once, nor will I ever recommend the LDS Church. Why? Because I never recommend to anyone to take part in a group that feels such an absolute need to demolish another and is so disrespectful of the beliefs of others.
We have nothing to say to each other.

That gave me a good laugh. You are so funny. You recommending religions or denominations to others? On what authority or reason? Why not recommend them to your religion/denomination? What's the matter with yours?
So, if you asked with real sincerity, with real intent, faith not wavering, no double mindedness, God, which Church should I join. And, he appeared to you saying, "Join none of them for they are all wrong," you would reject God? I can just see you say to God, "God, please don't get mad at me but who are you to say all the churches/religions/denominations are wrong? Who are you to demolish other's beliefs?

So, what did it mean when God told Joseph Smith this that they were all wrong? It meant that the gospel they were teaching was lacking doctrine and ordinances that the authority to teach and perform the ordinances. The ironic thing is that it has been the ministers and leaders of these some 40,000 different denominations of Christian churches that closed their doors on God. "A bible a bible, we've got a bible and we don't need anything more." Traditional Christian Churches teach that they don't need anymore words from God because they have the Bible. The essence of apostasy!!! "Go away God we don't need no stinking Prophets to tell us what to do. We are scholars and have PhD's and stuff like that! Yes! from 421 to the present, apostasy!!! Yet, the Lord so loved us that he sent His son again to open back up communication to fix the doctrines and ordinances that have been changed or lost without authority. And, what do the people do? Stone the Prophet. Or, in Joseph Smith's case, shoot him with weapons of mass destruction.

This has nothing to do with respect for God is no respector of men. Yet, you think I'm giving God's words to the Prophets and Apostles out of disrespect? Speaking of exactly what I'm talking about, here is the Lord Himself in Isaiah 29 saying the same thing about apostacy and refusal to listen to the Prophet: "13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:" Then, he said even thought there is this great apostasy, in our days, he would still love us and reconnect: "14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid." The Book of Mormon is this great work dug out of the ground. But, those who want to remain in apostacy he says, "15 Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who noweth us?" What book I say from the ground? "18 ¶ And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness." And the apostasy, "24 They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine." Will you learn doctrine?

 

[Meriweather]

You recommending religions or denominations to others?

Only when they ask. It is a serious conversation with a serious person. The discussion starts with, "I want to get from religion what you get from religion--and I have sincerely tried being Catholic. If you could not be Catholic, where would you turn next?" Sometimes it is as simple as recommending Eastern Orthodox. Other times I know of Catholic Churches who continue with the Latin Mass. These are for serious people who love their faith. If they want something a bit less demanding, I recommend Episcopalian, sometimes referred to a "Catholic Lite".

For those who have issues with Old Testament readings, I recommend Judaism, explaining a good Rabbi will give them a whole new understanding of the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. After several years of study they will come to the fork in the road where they choose between Christianity and Judaism. If they turn back to Catholicism, then they will bring with them that new understanding of God in the Hebrew Bible and God in the New Testament. If they don't, they are still in excellent hands.

 

[Meriweather]

So, what did it mean when God told Joseph Smith this that they were all wrong?

It means Joseph Smith was a con artist. Listen, I am not the person with whom to discuss your religion. Without knowing what it was, when I was fourteen, I came across The Book of Mormon on a library table I began reading. My first thought (again not knowing a thing about it) was, "This sounds like it was written by a fourteen-year-old boy."

I went back to the forward or introduction, and it suggested sincere prayer. I am very much in favor of sincere prayer and in listening to the Holy Spirit. And I in my mind/soul I clearly heard, "This is not for you."

Note, I did not hear, "This is not for anyone." The exact words were, "This is not for you."

I suspect you are going to insist being Catholic I was being controlled by the devil and it was Satan telling me the LDS faith was not for me. Not so, but you believe as you wish. As I said last night, this is not a discussion the two of us need to have. I recommend, Let it be.

 

[Cougarbear]

Only when they ask. It is a serious conversation with a serious person. The discussion starts with, "I want to get from religion what you get from religion--and I have sincerely tried being Catholic. If you could not be Catholic, where would you turn next?" Sometimes it is as simple as recommending Eastern Orthodox. Other times I know of Catholic Churches who continue with the Latin Mass. These are for serious people who love their faith. If they want something a bit less demanding, I recommend Episcopalian, sometimes referred to a "Catholic Lite".

For those who have issues with Old Testament readings, I recommend Judaism, explaining a good Rabbi will give them a whole new understanding of the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. After several years of study they will come to the fork in the road where they choose between Christianity and Judaism. If they turn back to Catholicism, then they will bring with them that new understanding of God in the Hebrew Bible and God in the New Testament. If they don't, they are still in excellent hands.

Yep, no testimony of anything. Have you ever thought that maybe God has established a Church and it's up to you to conform to it and not the other way around? If you don't like something, then maybe it isn't the Church. It's how you are approaching the Church. You "tried" being Catholic? No you didn't or you would still be Catholic because you joined because you thought it is God's church. Uggg...This is what happens to apostates. They tell God what he should be doing...
I agree with you that we can learn from others. I've listened to Rabbis talk about parts of the OT and it does give great perspective. But, it doesn't mean that's the religion of God and what He wants today. Uggg....