Zone1 I'm not religious, but .......

It means Joseph Smith was a con artist. Listen, I am not the person with whom to discuss your religion. Without knowing what it was, when I was fourteen, I came across The Book of Mormon on a library table I began reading. My first thought (again not knowing a thing about it) was, "This sounds like it was written by a fourteen-year-old boy."

I went back to the forward or introduction, and it suggested sincere prayer. I am very much in favor of sincere prayer and in listening to the Holy Spirit. And I in my mind/soul I clearly heard, "This is not for you."

Note, I did not hear, "This is not for anyone." The exact words were, "This is not for you."

I suspect you are going to insist being Catholic I was being controlled by the devil and it was Satan telling me the LDS faith was not for me. Not so, but you believe as you wish. As I said last night, this is not a discussion the two of us need to have. I recommend, Let it be.
Again, just your idea about the level of the language should give you a key that it is a true translation of people a couple of thousand years ago. What do you think their level of language was back then? Did they have colleges of higher learning learning Calculus and on and on and on....It makes sense it would be easy to read. In fact, while at BYU, in a class, we took the Book of Mormon and other writings in the Bible to test the level. It's quite easy to do. The Book of Mormon is written in about 2nd grade level in our days. In their days, it would be their college level. But, the OT and NT aren't that much better. Those writings are anywhere from 5th to 7th grade level. So, you say a boy of 14, right on.

If you know con-artists, they don't like to die, do they? Yet, he died for the cause. So did many others over the years. Tarred and feathered as well. And, the witnesses of the Book of Mormon and the Plates, most of them left the Church. But, they never denied what they saw and heard even on their deathbeds. Go figure. It's time to find out what God wants and not tell him what you want from Him.
 
I wont argue. A "creator" is the easiest answer as most questions cant be answered yet.

I wouldn't say it's a matter of "yet". The more we know, the more a creator seems likely. Some modern understandings just about broke theoretical physicists from my POV. Parallel universe, string theory, etc. It's all much more complex than they imagined.
 
Again, just your idea about the level of the language should give you a key that it is a true translation of people a couple of thousand years ago. What do you think their level of language was back then? Did they have colleges of higher learning learning Calculus and on and on and on....It makes sense it would be easy to read. In fact, while at BYU, in a class, we took the Book of Mormon and other writings in the Bible to test the level. It's quite easy to do. The Book of Mormon is written in about 2nd grade level in our days. In their days, it would be their college level. But, the OT and NT aren't that much better. Those writings are anywhere from 5th to 7th grade level. So, you say a boy of 14, right on.

If you know con-artists, they don't like to die, do they? Yet, he died for the cause. So did many others over the years. Tarred and feathered as well. And, the witnesses of the Book of Mormon and the Plates, most of them left the Church. But, they never denied what they saw and heard even on their deathbeds. Go figure. It's time to find out what God wants and not tell him what you want from Him.

If you want to talk con artists, the Book of Abraham is a REAL hoot. Wowzers
 
If you want to talk con artists, the Book of Abraham is a REAL hoot. Wowzers
Got ya…The Book if Mormon is true and written at the proper level. Therefore, Joseph Smith was in fact a true Prophet of God. That makes the Pearl of Great Price true as well.
 
Got ya…The Book if Mormon is true and written at the proper level. Therefore, Joseph Smith was in fact a true Prophet of God. That makes the Pearl of Great Price true as well.

I'm talking about the Book of Abraham here, which Joseph Smith claimed he translated from Egyptian and was about Abraham, but which in fact he totally fabricated and was a standard Egyptian funeral "breathing document".
 
I wouldn't say it's a matter of "yet". The more we know, the more a creator seems likely. Some modern understandings just about broke theoretical physicists from my POV. Parallel universe, string theory, etc. It's all much more complex than they imagined.
On the other hand, the more we have learned, the less relevant gods have become. What happened to all the various gods tasked with managing natural forces? Gods of thunder, lightning, rain, etc., have all been fired as they became outdated and replaced by fewer, multitasking gods of convenience.
 
On the other hand, the more we have learned, the less relevant gods have become. What happened to all the various gods tasked with managing natural forces? Gods of thunder, lightning, rain, etc., have all been fired as they became outdated and replaced by fewer, multitasking gods of convenience.

We can see more, we have science for more, and we understand far, far less.

The complexity of DNA, of the brain, is something humans could not have fathomed thousands of years ago. Not even talking about the cosmos.
 
Again, just your idea about the level of the language should give you a key that it is a true translation of people a couple of thousand years ago. What do you think their level of language was back then? Did they have colleges of higher learning learning Calculus and on and on and on....It makes sense it would be easy to read. In fact, while at BYU, in a class, we took the Book of Mormon and other writings in the Bible to test the level. It's quite easy to do. The Book of Mormon is written in about 2nd grade level in our days. In their days, it would be their college level. But, the OT and NT aren't that much better. Those writings are anywhere from 5th to 7th grade level. So, you say a boy of 14, right on.

If you know con-artists, they don't like to die, do they? Yet, he died for the cause. So did many others over the years. Tarred and feathered as well. And, the witnesses of the Book of Mormon and the Plates, most of them left the Church. But, they never denied what they saw and heard even on their deathbeds. Go figure. It's time to find out what God wants and not tell him what you want from Him.

Smith was a fraud.

 
I'm talking about the Book of Abraham here, which Joseph Smith claimed he translated from Egyptian and was about Abraham, but which in fact he totally fabricated and was a standard Egyptian funeral "breathing document".
Shows you what you don't know. The Book of Abraham is in the Pearl of Great Price scriptures and is inspired by God through the Prophet. More of the mysteries of the universe that the original apostles weren't allowed to speak about. This is the dispensation of the restitution of all things. There is nothing in there that contradicts the Bible. The writings that you all think he translated from aren't the ones. There were others that were burnt in the fire and that is most likely where the Book of Abraham was from.
 
So, here is how it normally goes with most people. I believe in God but I don't like the way Church X works. It's boring. The sermons are too conservative for me or too liberal for me. The music isn't to my liking. And so on...So, they go from Church to Church until they find one that fits them. They never consider what the doctrine is and are the ordinances performed with authority. You can ignore this but this is what happens and it's not the way to find the truth of Jesus Christ.
 
Smith was a fraud.

Nope. Joseph Smith did not read Egyptian. But, the Urnim and Thummin made it possible to translate or inspire the words in the Pearl of Great Price. Either way, it's a true scripture from Abraham and Moses. you will learn much from it.
 
Nope. Joseph Smith did not read Egyptian. But, the Urnim and Thummin made it possible to translate or inspire the words in the Pearl of Great Price. Either way, it's a true scripture from Abraham and Moses. you will learn much from it.

I don't think so.
 
Neither are you. Mormons are so much weirder than I ever realized.
A peculiar people. And, a royal Priesthood Church as well. 1Peter 2:9, "But ye are a chosen generation (our time), a royal priesthood, an holy nation (Israel), a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light." This goes right along with Isaiah chapter 29, the coming forth of The Book of Mormon, "13 ¶ Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: 14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
 

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