Illegal Immigration - The next great national debate?

Foxfyre

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?

I'm hoping for some pertinent observations and concrete suggestions for how best to deal with this problem if you believe it is a problem. If you do not see a problem, please explain why you think none exists.
 

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?
I just posted this idea in another thread. The best long-term solution might be with stable growth of the Mexican economy. If there are expanding job opportunities in Mexico, there's no need to cross the border looking for jobs here. Ending subsidies might expand some industries' growth into Mexico. And there are other benefits to ending subsidies, but I won't go into that.

In general, I think most illegal immigrants don't come here to fuck around. They desperately want work so they can support the family. For every horror story about an illegal immigrant joining MS-13, there's probably ten times the number of stories about those who keep their head down, work in a back-breaking job just to send three-fourths of their earning home.

But they're still breaking the law. That has to be recognized.

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?
Immediate deportation. No amnesty, because that's unfair to those who wait in line for months--even years--to come here with the appropriate paperwork.

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?
Vote 'em out?

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?
a) Immediate deportation
b) Depends on the offense. Are we talking a family member that harbors her son-in-law who just hopped the fence yesterday, or an underground operation that hauls dozens of illegal immigrants across the border every day?
c) First time offense: fine the business one-years salary of highest-paid worker for each illegal immigrant employed. Second time offense and thereafter: Strip any licensing associated with the business. Owner faces a personal fine of up to $50,000 (fyi: equal to violating the DMCA).

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?
No. The only moral argument I can see would be about treating a medical emergency--i.e. a roofer shoot a nine-inch nail through his palm. But as far as any of the social programs listed, no.
 

Father Time

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?
Well nothing we tried so far has worked, so nothing. What exactly is restricting immigration accomplishing anyway?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?
Nothing, anything we will do would just be a temporary solution and way too costly.

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?
I'm not sure what you mean
 
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Foxfyre

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What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?
I'm not sure what you mean
I mean there are sanctuary states and sanctuary cities that practically invite the illegals to move in. There are all kinds of social services who provide clothing, food, furniture, housing, and sometimes cash. There is free education provided. There is free healthcare provided. There are those who are supposed to be enforcing the law who are looking the other way. And there are the employers who hire illegals. And there are those who help them come across the border and who hide them if that should be necessary.

All of these make it possible for illegals to be here.

Should there be any consequences?
 

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"We" can't do anything. The Democrats in Congress will tell us what this nation is going to do if anything. And any of us who are opposed will be told we do not have a right to make any kind of political statement in opposition to it.

Immie
 

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?
Advertise the new strict programs that will be enforce against illegal immigrants and anyone who employs them or contracts labor with them.

Foxfyre said:
What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?
Send them home in a return the illegals bus. No if and's or but's.

Foxfyre said:
What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?
Fines and jail time. Deportation if they are being harbored by another immigrant. Stop any grants to agencies assisting illegal aliens. Legal Services Corporation Programs Aid Illegal Immigrants | Center for Immigration Studies.

Programs like the stale bread programs that keep some of these people from starving should not be included in the terms of fines and jail time. There are areas where people do feed some of the illegals day old or thrown out bread. I do think that more should be done to get inside these camps and find out who brought or assisted these people into getting across the border and get them help to get them back across the border.

Foxfyre said:
What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?
a) fines and penalties
b) medical emergency services should not be denied.
c) fine the employers who hired the illegal aliens. Silky has some good ideas. Licenses to be revoke for repeat offenders is a good idea. Banned from government contracts or programs would be another option for a repeat offender.

Foxfyre said:
Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?
Only medical emergencies. As soon as they are able send them home.

Foxfyre said:
I'm hoping for some pertinent observations and concrete suggestions for how best to deal with this problem if you believe it is a problem. If you do not see a problem, please explain why you think none exists.
E-verify would have been a good start. If illegal immigrants cannot get work they would not come here. Local police forces should be checking for green cards also when it is obvious or very apparent that the person may be an illegal alien.

Right now in rural communities across the nation contractors, farmers and other employers are preparing to gear up for spring work. Every year for the last five years I've seen contractors in Des Moines doing city work with illegal aliens. There is also a newer mall up there that has several hundred illegal immigrants working there. These contractors and businesses are cheating honest business who hire legitimate workers by cheating and under cutting cost with underpaid illegal workers.

I care more about American workers that need jobs than I do about illegal immigrants that drive the working man's wage down.
 

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HERE IS THE SOLUTION...

1. Increase our birthrate of the Best and Brightest among us, and stop subsidizing the birthrate of our worst and dumbest which we do in hundreds of ways, and surely STOP subsidizing the birthrate of the worst and dumbest in loser nations.

2. Provide sufficient punishment for illegal entry that no one would even think of it. I would suggest 5 years at hard labor, for the first offense, 10 years for the second offense, and 20 years for the third offense. These people come here for money, so making them work their butts off for nothing for 5 years will be sufficient to deter them from ever setting foot here illegally.

With those kinds of penalties in place we could dismantle all our vast expensive border force and expensive check points. By hard labor, I'm talking about chained ankles and non-stop work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

THEN when we release them you wouldn't even have to deport them. They would run for the border and dive across on their own. They would generously be given 20 days to get across some border, and if they were caught here after that they would be arrested and get the next highest sentence and so on. That deterrence alone will totally cure anyone from coming here illegally.

3. Then, if we need them, bring in people who must have very high job skills that we clearly need, and that have at least a BA and the money to take care of any of their needs, and/or 5 to 10 million dollars to add to our economy.

4. Meanwhile, while this is working itself out, NO services of any sort for any reason, even emergency medical care for any other than citizens. All green carders and such would have 3 months to qualify to become citizens, or out they go. Everyone here must qualify to be a citizen or out they go.

5. Make it very hard to marry foreigners, and if anyone does marry one, they can never bring in any relatives of the spouse.

6. Five years in prison for anyone who aids and abets any illegal immigration of any sort.

7. No flying or showing any flag of any nation other than our own on our soil. One year at hard labor for doing this.

8. No public speaking in any language other than English, UNLESS the person in question can show they are proficient in English by testing. One year of hard labor for this.

9. NO rights of citizenship of any sort for anyone who is not an adult American citizen. No trial by jury, or any other right.

10. No rights of citizenship for any convicted felon. Such people would be encouraged to leave the country to wherever will accept them. They are not welcome here.

This is not a perfect list and can be improved upon, but it is a beginning. It would be a good start on our problems in this area.
 
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uscitizen

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Yes Illegal immigration will likely become a hot topic. After all we have to blame our problems on someone besides ourselves.
 
&

☭proletarian☭

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?
Put anyone who hires them in prison and stop giving them food, shelter, and medical care. If they're caught, put them in a chain gang and feed them just enough to keep them alive until they fall dead from exhaustion.
What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?
Give them 72 hours to leave. After that, if they're caught, put them in a chain gang and feed them just enough to keep them alive until they fall dead from exhaustion.
What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?
Those who hire or harbour them should be sent to gitmo for helping unknown agents violate our national sovereignty. in six years, they'll be given a hearing to determine whether they were potential terrorists. Those found guilty will be executed and those found innocent will be detained so they can't recruit others to form terrorist cells.


ZERO FUCKING TOLERANCE!
What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
Chain gang/slavery
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
Prison and tried for treason for working to dissolve our borders and undermine our soverignty

c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?
Prison and tried for treason for working to dissolve our borders and undermine our soverignty
Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?
No. Only citizens should receive full benefits and only citizens and legal residents should receive free education.
 
&

☭proletarian☭

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?
I just posted this idea in another thread. The best long-term solution might be with stable growth of the Mexican economy.
Won't happen their race can't maintain a successful first-world nation without the White Mans' help. That's why they come here instead of fixing their own damned nation. The only way the can succeed is as our puppet state.
In general, I think most illegal immigrants don't come here to fuck around. They desperately want work so they can support the family. For every horror story about an illegal immigrant joining MS-13, there's probably ten times the number of stories about those who keep their head down, work in a back-breaking job just to send three-fourths of their earning home.

I don't care. Get in line. You wanna do honest work? Then cross like an honest worker. The wetbacks spit on our sovereignty and show a total disregard for our laws and our society.
Vote 'em out?
With all the wetbacks and their cousins voting, that won't happen.

The only moral argument I can see would be about treating a medical emergency--i.e. a roofer shoot a nine-inch nail through his palm.
Shame. If he were a documented migrant worker or legal resident, he'd qualify for treatment at a public hospital. As a criminal who's shown a no desire to comply with our laws or be a part of our society, however, he's SOL.
 

Toronado3800

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Make them citizens.

At the very least it would raise our property values.

This is not a joke.

I am willing to keep anyone who goes through that kind of trouble to come up here and work.

Too bad we can't send others back in exchange.
 
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☭proletarian☭

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Make them citizens.

At the very least it would raise our property values.
Right... because a bunch of unemployed people who don't speak English raise property values. Hence the high cost of living in the black ghettos...


This is not a joke.
Neither is this: you're a fucking moron and people as stupid as you are too stupid to have anything to do with how a country is run. You are a prime example of why democracy doesn't work.
I am willing to keep anyone who goes through that kind of trouble to come up here and work.
If they did it legally, sure.

Too bad we can't send others back in exchange.
You need a few bucks for the Greyhound?
 

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Attrition Through Enforcement Is the True Middle-ground Solution

The open borders crowd constantly tell the American people that there are only two solutions to our nation's illegal alien crisis – give illegal aliens amnesty or round them up and deport them. This is a diversionary tactic to draw public attention away from the most effective and efficient solution – Attrition Through Enforcement.

The principle behind Attrition Through Enforcement is that living illegally in the United States will become more difficult and less satisfying over time when the government – at ALL LEVELS – enforces all of the laws already on the books. It is also imperative that the government with the full cooperation of the private sector, implements certain workplace enforcement measures. The goal is to make it extremely difficult for unauthorized persons to live and work in the United States. There is no need for taxpayers to watch the government spend billions of their dollars to round up and deport illegal aliens; they will buy their own bus or plane tickets back home if they can no longer earn a living here.

We know Attrition Through Enforcement will work because, until recently, it has been shown to work even with little or no enforcement. As it currently stands, almost 200,000 illegal aliens self-deport from the United States every year, but imagine how many more would leave if our government refused to award illegal aliens another amnesty, mandated all employers to verify a person’s eligibility to work here, cracked down on identity fraud, and enabled local police to easily transfer illegal aliens in their custody to the feds.
 

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Yes Illegal immigration will likely become a hot topic. After all we have to blame our problems on someone besides ourselves.
Ya cause 20 MILLION Illegals are having no effect on our Health Care costs or our crime rates , ohh and no effect on employment either, RIGHT? God some people are dumb as fucking rocks.
 

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?

The CEO's should get 20 years in a Mexican Prison. And if those CEO's are in Saudi Arabia, as was the case in a roundup here, we should have the CIA kidnap them and send them somewhere to be waterboarded. We did that in Italy, why not in Saudi?

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?

I'm hoping for some pertinent observations and concrete suggestions for how best to deal with this problem if you believe it is a problem. If you do not see a problem, please explain why you think none exists.
Well, why don't you Conservatives solve the problem. After all, in the wake of 9-11, had Bush said that we are going to lock down our southern border, do you think that any of us would have objected? Over half the illegals have come in since then. And we truly have no idea what or whom has come across that border.

No matter what you state, or what the Conservatives use for their Hatriotism, as long as the illegals can be used to prevent Unions, and create a cheaper labor force, the Consevatives will prevent any thing at all being done about it.
 

RetiredGySgt

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?

The CEO's should get 20 years in a Mexican Prison. And if those CEO's are in Saudi Arabia, as was the case in a roundup here, we should have the CIA kidnap them and send them somewhere to be waterboarded. We did that in Italy, why not in Saudi?

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?

I'm hoping for some pertinent observations and concrete suggestions for how best to deal with this problem if you believe it is a problem. If you do not see a problem, please explain why you think none exists.
Well, why don't you Conservatives solve the problem. After all, in the wake of 9-11, had Bush said that we are going to lock down our southern border, do you think that any of us would have objected? Over half the illegals have come in since then. And we truly have no idea what or whom has come across that border.

No matter what you state, or what the Conservatives use for their Hatriotism, as long as the illegals can be used to prevent Unions, and create a cheaper labor force, the Consevatives will prevent any thing at all being done about it.
Partisan RETARD ALERT. BOTH PARTIES want illegals. Republicans for cheap labor and Democrats to appease the Hispanics and eventually make them legal so they can vote for them.

The last amnesty did not work, a new one will simply encourage even more people to come here illegally.

This is a National Security issue and whether you like it or not , the Democrats control Congress you dumb ass. And have for over 4 years. IF WE the PEOPLE want anything done we have to get the Democrats to do it.

It is high time this single issue be made large enough to make our Representatives in Congress LOSE their seats over failing to eliminate the Illegals and close the Southern Border.

By the way DUMB FUCK, Obama is cutting Border Agents and the funding to the Agency.
 

editec

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.
You mean "havbe been turning their back to illegal immigration" don't you?

Both parties have been ignoring or exacerbating this problem for the las couple decades, after all.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?
Whatever it takes is what we should be doing. Even up to and including DEADLY force (to keep them out, I mean)

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?
If they're so interested in making illegals citizens, they ought to exchange places with the immigrants.

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?

Deportation

b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
Depends on circumstance

c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?
If they know it? Fine (and/or imprison) the crap out of them

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?
Yes...but of course there should not BE anybody living here illegally, either.

But as long as they're here, really...we have almost no choice.

Do you want millions of kids who aren't in school hanging about?

Do you want to share your community with those people who will be disease ridden and desperate?

There's no good SIMPLE solution to this problem.

We can easily describe what we'd like, but arriving there?

Not so easy.
 
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JW Frogen

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Maybe Mexico and the US should play musical immigration?

Everyone from the US goes to Mexico and everyone from Mexico goes to the US.

Then Americans can both produce and use their own drugs (you can take the drugs out of the addict but you can't take the addictive out of the drugs) and Mexicans can find other reasons to behead and kill each other (you can take the Aztec out of Mexican but you can't take the Mexican out of the Aztec).

What can the Americans do with all that oil wealth and what can the Mexicans do with all that agricultural land with no workers?

Let the great experiment begin.
 
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Foxfyre

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.
You mean "havbe been turning their back to illegal immigration" don't you?

Both parties have been ignoring or exacerbating this problem for the las couple decades, after all.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?
Whatever it takes is what we should be doing. Even up to and including DEADLY force (to keep them out, I mean)



If they're so interested in making illegals citizens, they ought to exchange places with the immigrants.




Deportation



Depends on circumstance

c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?
If they know it? Fine (and/or imprison) the crap out of them

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?
Yes...but of course there should not BE anybody living here illegally, either.

But as long as they're here, really...we have almost no choice.

Do you want millions of kids who aren't in school hanging about?

Do you want to share your community with those people who will be disease ridden and desperate?

There's no good SIMPLE solution to this problem.

We can easily describe what we'd like, but arriving there?

Not so easy.
Why not implement a guest worker program that provides opportunity and some protection against exploitation of people from other countries, and then send everybody home with iinstructions on how to return legally?

Why not a constitutional amendment that says a person has to have at least one US citizen parent in order to be a US citizen even if they are born here?

Congress has the power to deal with the very few truly hardship cases such as kids who grew up here and have never really known their homeland, etc.

But time and again rewarding people for breaking our laws has encouraged more and more of the same behavior. If we give amnesty to 12 million illegals now, that probably translates to 20 or 30 million by the time they import the rest of their family. And it just makes that big flashing neon sign over America bigger: Ya'll come and if you manage to lay low for just a little while, they'll let you stay.
 

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If a number of pundits are right, the focus of the current Administration and Congress will now turn back to illegal immigration.

What, if anything, should we do to stop people from entering the United States illegally?

What, if anything, should we do about those who are already here?

What, if anything, should be required of those who make it possible for illegals to be here?

What, if any, penalties or consequences should be imposed on those who:
a) come here illegally?
b) give comfort and/or emergency services to those who are here illegally?
c) give jobs to those who are here illegally?

The CEO's should get 20 years in a Mexican Prison. And if those CEO's are in Saudi Arabia, as was the case in a roundup here, we should have the CIA kidnap them and send them somewhere to be waterboarded. We did that in Italy, why not in Saudi?

Should people living in the United States illegally be provided the education benefits, health care, social security, workers compensation benefits, low income assistance, etc. that is available to U.S. citizens?

I'm hoping for some pertinent observations and concrete suggestions for how best to deal with this problem if you believe it is a problem. If you do not see a problem, please explain why you think none exists.
Well, why don't you Conservatives solve the problem. After all, in the wake of 9-11, had Bush said that we are going to lock down our southern border, do you think that any of us would have objected? Over half the illegals have come in since then. And we truly have no idea what or whom has come across that border.

No matter what you state, or what the Conservatives use for their Hatriotism, as long as the illegals can be used to prevent Unions, and create a cheaper labor force, the Consevatives will prevent any thing at all being done about it.
Why don't you give your views on what should be done, rather than just bleat about conservatives?
 

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