If you do Not Support Ukraine Ceding Territory to Russia to End the War and the Killing, What is Your Plan?

[Zincwarrior]

This queston came up when one of my relatives at the T'Giving table said that Trump's plan is to give Russia the approx 18% of Ukraine that they now occupy. No idea if that is Trump's plan or not, but this relative thought it was. I asked him what his idea was.

His suggestion seemed unworkable, but at family gatherings, I only ask questions about politics, I don't argue politics.

What is your plan?

Kill 500,000 more Russians.

 

[Litwin]

What does the average Ukrainian want?

to live in their own, democratic , independent country

 

[Litwin]

Putin said this morning he believes Trump will find a way for the fighting to cease... I also think Ukraine is ready to bring about a deal... a deal can be reached...

Donald Trump wants to cut global oil prices in half ( ITS less than 30 $ US for Urals ) ... if he does so , Moscow empire won´t survive his 4 years in the office ... SO I DON'T think that they like him (very much) . Am I right ?

 

[sparky]

What does the average Ukrainian want?
For the US to continue to support the ukrainian economy, pay salaries and pensions.

while that may be the fact, i can't see it lasting very long evil one

The plan should be, Russia withdraws. Persecution of ethnic Russians end. Ukraine becomes a neutral country and not part of NATO.

aren't they both of similar ethnicity?

~S~

 

[Litwin]

aren't they both of similar ethnicity?

No.
watch this , troll

 

[Seymour Flops]

Of course they need us

They do the fighting, we provide the arms

Why do we need them?

 

[Litwin]

Why do we need them?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

while that may be the fact, i can't see it lasting very long evil one

aren't they both of similar ethnicity?

~S~

They are the same ethnicity. I have a different view. My partner's parents were from Kiev. They always considered themselves Russian. The ones who wanted independence were Nazis who wanted to strip the Russians living in Ukraine of their language, religion and heritage.

We hear only what is approved for us to hear. Not enough to make a fully informed decision. Russia will not idly let Ukraine join NATO. They will burn the world to a cinder first.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Make Putin burn himself out

The risk is he launches nukes.

 

[eagle1462010]

It is clear the Russian objective is Beach Front Prooperty. They want to secure the Black Sea.

Look further South.....that is why they are pushing Turkey to join them as Turkey is a key Choke point to the Med.

 

[BackAgain]

What does the average Ukrainian want?
For the US to continue to support the ukrainian economy, pay salaries and pensions.

The plan should be, Russia withdraws. Persecution of ethnic Russians end. Ukraine becomes a neutral country and not part of NATO.

The problem is that Putin simply won’t withdraw.

My answer to this horrible dilemma doesn’t exist. I don’t know.

I personally would hate seeing Russia’s criminal aggression rewarded in any way.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The problem is that Putin simply won’t withdraw.

My answer to this horrible dilemma doesn’t exist. I don’t know.

I personally would hate seeing Russia’s criminal aggression rewarded in any way.

Ukraine will have to become a neutral country and give up NATO.

 

[BackAgain]

Ukraine will have to become a neutral country and give up NATO.

That only happens in exchange for Russia moving the fuck back out. And again: Putin simply won’t do that.

He murderously stole it fair and square.

 

[Mac-7]

Sorry, if I didn't make it clear.

I'm not asking for an ideal solution that will never happen.

If letting Russia keep what it is occupying is not acceptable, what can the U.S. to do refuse to accept it?

More spending of money and lives in a futile attempt to force Russia out, or something more decisive?

Yes, I believe they woudl want that, especially if it means that the killing would stop.

Putin is not as secure as needs to be

Some people in russia want him out

So he needs to gain something from a war that has been very costly for the russian people to prevent being overthrown

A possible deal might involve guarantees that Ukraine will be neutral and never be a part of NATO

putin can say that was his goal all along and therefore save face

 

[Mac-7]

Ukraine will have to become a neutral country and give up NATO.

My thoughts exactly

 

[progressive hunter]

This queston came up when one of my relatives at the T'Giving table said that Trump's plan is to give Russia the approx 18% of Ukraine that they now occupy. No idea if that is Trump's plan or not, but this relative thought it was. I asked him what his idea was.

His suggestion seemed unworkable, but at family gatherings, I only ask questions about politics, I don't argue politics.

What is your plan?

first off its ukraines choice not trumps,,

and if you ignored the propaganda coming out of the fake news media that putin wanted to take over the world you would know this was putins plan all along,,

biden feeding the war machine has caused a lot of useless deaths,,

 

[sparky]

They are the same ethnicity. I have a different view. My partner's parents were from Kiev. They always considered themselves Russian. The ones who wanted independence were Nazis who wanted to strip the Russians living in Ukraine of their language, religion and heritage.

Thx, so this could be viewed as a civil war , but just who wants independence from who is fuzzy Evil one

We hear only what is approved for us to hear. Not enough to make a fully informed decision. Russia will not idly let Ukraine join NATO. They will burn the world to a cinder first.

That's sadly apparent Evil

To my (limited) understanding the territory has been on the invasion superhighway since medieval times

The indigenous folks always seemed to simply subscribe to whoever had the biggest stick

IE~ being an independent state took a back seat to prostituting their resources to said sorts

yet, we're supposed to buy into this as the entire reason to support them
~S~

 

[Zavulon]

Crimea and Novorussia are vitally necessary for Russia, like Alaska and California are vitally important for the USA.
Russia does want to take Alaska and California but doesn't want to pay more than 1 mln Russian lives. The USA want to keep Alaska and California and ready to pay for it more than 50 mln American lives.
Same is right for Crimea and Novorussia.

So, if the USA really wants to take Crimea and Novorussia (and avoid barbarism like mass murders of civilians) - they can make the more or less equal bet - Alaska and California, and then we can play a limited nuclear war. Just a little, but decisive counter-force strike. If the first counter-force strike is precise (no more than 1 mln civilians of collateral damage) and effective (and defender can't kill more than one million of attackers civilians by retaliation strike) - the attacker can take all stakes (but only disputed lands), defender doesn't retaliate and survive as a minor, but still nuclear power (no unconditional surrenders demands). If the first strike is really ineffective (and defender can kill by his retaliation strike more than 50 mln of attacker's civilians) the attacker lost both stakes, but also survive as a minor but nuclear power.

Right after the first counter-force nuclear strike there should be a "humanitarian pause" (I suggest two days or a week) during which both sides should have the opportunity to calculate their further chances with more or less cold head, make their next stakes and try to achieve mutually acceptable solution and save as much civilians as they can, during which both sides don't deliberately attack civilians but may attack nuclear forces.

Right after both sides have their results of the war recognised and sign the peace treaty - there should not be any restrictions on the international humanitarian aid and trade.

 

[luiza]

give Russia the approx 18% of Ukraine that they now occupy.

But they already occupy 27% of the land .
And that is a western estimate so the likely truer figure is 30% .

And in achieving that 30% they have essentially eliminated the future supply of home bred Ukey fighters .Unless then Ukes immediately reduce conscription age .

So without NATO sending in many more of their own , they are doomed to see Uncle Pooty and his brave boys gallop west towards Odessa and the Romanian border .

Our 3D Chess Champ has been boosting his total force toward a 1.5 million target so he might initiate a major offensive vey soon rather than wait for Spring -- say , around mid March .

Things look dire in what might shortly be ex Ukraine .

 

[wamose]

Invite them both to join NATO, then figure it out without blowing shit up.