If you could only own one gun....the AR-15 is a good choice....

2aguy

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2014
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Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
 
but you said knives/bats/etc are just as deadly----so it can't be that good
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.
I never er could understand some peoples thinking on that matter. If I'm gonna give up my position by making noise... There will be light and pain associated with it. Too many movies I suppose...
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.

Rack it, quickly followed with a "Ya'll would be smart to just leave". Of course, said from behind the couch. Hate to break to all of you Rexall Rangers but most people aren't cold blooded killers.
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.
I never er could understand some peoples thinking on that matter. If I'm gonna give up my position by making noise... There will be light and pain associated with it. Too many movies I suppose...

And too many faces in the soon to come nightmares.
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.

Rack it, quickly followed with a "Ya'll would be smart to just leave". Of course, said from behind the couch. Hate to break to all of you Rexall Rangers but most people aren't cold blooded killers.
Sucks to be one of "most people" if you decide to break into my house...
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.

Rack it, quickly followed with a "Ya'll would be smart to just leave". Of course, said from behind the couch. Hate to break to all of you Rexall Rangers but most people aren't cold blooded killers.
Where did that come from? Who said I was a cold blooded killer? All I said was your gun needs to be loaded before you confront scum.
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.
I never er could understand some peoples thinking on that matter. If I'm gonna give up my position by making noise... There will be light and pain associated with it. Too many movies I suppose...

And too many faces in the soon to come nightmares.
Only for those who have regrets...
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.

Why is your room dark? Don't you believe in weapon-mounted lights, and the fourth basic rule of firearms safety?

:04:
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.

I want the lights out if it's nighttime. I will have a huge advantage over the intruders. And the last thing I need is to accidently trigger that cannon. Yah, the safety and all that. But it's safer to not have the round chambered. And even more effective in the pitch black. You chamber it from behind something stout that their weapons cannot penetrate like the couch. Unless they are armed with a 38 spec or 357 mag or the like, that 9mm won't penetrate. When you jack that round in, and say something like "Ya'll should be leaving now" they are going to tear your furniture apart and rip the door off the hinges getting away. If not, you have the advantage in tactical. They won't be able to move without making a lot of noise. If it's Grandma down to get a cup of tea, She'll announce herself instead of breaking the coffee table.
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.

Why is your room dark? Don't you believe in weapon-mounted lights, and the fourth basic rule of firearms safety?

:04:

I love weapon mounted lights. Gives me an easier target. Unless it's pointed directly at me, it just gave away your position. With a Shotgun, just shoot the light out. Anything behind it won't fare too well. And Grandma after a cup of Tea won't be running around with a weapon mounted lighted gun.
 
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.
I never er could understand some peoples thinking on that matter. If I'm gonna give up my position by making noise... There will be light and pain associated with it. Too many movies I suppose...

And too many faces in the soon to come nightmares.
Only for those who have regrets...

If you won't have regrets maybe you shouldn't have firearms in the first place.
 
Here.....a look at why people like the AR-15 civilian rifle for self defense...

If You Could Only Own One Gun, An AR-15 Is A Great Choice Too

While in many respects, a shotgun is indeed a great (the best?) choice if you can only own one gunā€¦but an AR-15 is also a darn good option.

In fact, an AR pattern rifle is a better choice in certain regards, though not as much in others. Shotguns are a little more ubiquitous, itā€™s true, but Americaā€™s favorite rifle, the AR-15 comes darn close.

For starters, the AR-15 is one of the easiest weapon systems to learn. Since itā€™s a rifle, it is ā€“ like a shotgun ā€“ easier to be reliably accurate with for most shooters than a handgun, so long as the sighting system (be it iron sights, a red dot, or magnified optic) is zeroed.

Insert magazine, pull back the charging handle, and place it on safe. In case of bad guy, take safety off, aim and fire. Pretty darned simple.

Also, an AR-15 is far easier for most women to handle, which is one area where a shotgun (particularly the most popular 12 gauge variety) falls short. The length of pull on many smoothbores is frequently too long and a woman who isnā€™t used to the recoil of a 12-gauge (or even some 20 gauges for that matter) may be hesitant with one.
Iā€™m glad the article recognized straight away the versatility of the shotgun. Little else can really compare. Especially in a ā€œif I could only own one gunā€ scenario. A shotgun can even be used to get an AR...

For starters, America's favorite Rifle is the Savage Model 60. And there is nothing more frightening than the racking of a Model 870 12 gauge in a dark room no matter what you are armed with.
Tactical error my friend. It should already be chambered.

I want the lights out if it's nighttime. I will have a huge advantage over the intruders. And the last thing I need is to accidently trigger that cannon. Yah, the safety and all that. But it's safer to not have the round chambered. And even more effective in the pitch black. You chamber it from behind something stout that their weapons cannot penetrate like the couch. Unless they are armed with a 38 spec or 357 mag or the like, that 9mm won't penetrate. When you jack that round in, and say something like "Ya'll should be leaving now" they are going to tear your furniture apart and rip the door off the hinges getting away. If not, you have the advantage in tactical. They won't be able to move without making a lot of noise. If it's Grandma down to get a cup of tea, She'll announce herself instead of breaking the coffee table.
Who in the fuck is attacking you with a nerf, or water gun!? My winter gear offers more layers of fabric, and resistance than your couch. Dude... You're a fucking statistic, just begging to be counted...
 
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