If you are human, you are not capable of understanding God.

[Blues Man]

I recognize that god, omniscient, omnipotent and eternal by definition, is far beyond my humble understanding and capacity to impose my limited conceptualization upon.

is that your definition, or that of forgeries and fallacies you are facilitating.

It is the generally-accepted definition of a god as a supreme entity, with no recourse to sectarian niceties.

My acknowledging my inability to comprehend or tell a god what a god must be is an implicit acknowledgement that I am not one.

I cannot dictate to a god regarding a god's existence. A god can exist as none, as one, as many, or as all of those, and can do so simultaneously.

For a god, all things are possible, and that necessarily includes what is beyond human comprehension.

So can an all powerful god create a stone he cannot lift?

 

[Meriweather]

So can an all powerful god create a stone he cannot lift?

Which is why the original definition of "Almighty" is more precise. Perhaps in context of what is being said here is that when God exists He can create a stone he cannot lift when He does not exist.

 

[schmidlap]

So can an all powerful god create a stone he cannot lift?

Of course. A god can do anything and I - as a non-god - cannot pretend to comprehend how.

Imposing my limited grasp of reality upon a god would be hubristic.

 

[Blues Man]

So can an all powerful god create a stone he cannot lift?

Which is why the original definition of "Almighty" is more precise. Perhaps in context of what is being said here is that when God exists He can create a stone he cannot lift when He does not exist.

So can an all powerful god create a stone he cannot lift?

Of course. A god can do anything and I - as a non-god - cannot pretend to comprehend how.

Imposing my limited grasp of reality upon a god would be hubristic.

So if a god cannot pick up a stone he made how can he be all powerful?

And I don't have to comprehend any gods to realize that whether or not any gods exist that it doesn't really matter.

 

[schmidlap]

So if a god cannot pick up a stone he made how can he be all powerful?

My finite grasp or reality perceives that as a contradiction, but I cannot impose my finite grasp of reality upon a god.

 

[ding]

So if a god cannot pick up a stone he made how can he be all powerful?

My finite grasp or reality perceives that as a contradiction, but I cannot impose my finite grasp of reality upon a god.

MLK responds...

"...We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. This applies to the power of a gun, or a drug, or an argument, or even a sermon! Does it achieve its end? Does it fulfill its purpose?

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them. We can see this clearly in human illustrations. My purpose in doing a crossword puzzle is not to fill in certain words. I could fill them in easily by waiting for tomorrow morning's paper. Filling them in without the answers is harder but much more satisfying, for it calls out resourcefulness, ingenuity, and discipline which by the easier way would find no self expression.

 

[Blues Man]

So if a god cannot pick up a stone he made how can he be all powerful?

My finite grasp or reality perceives that as a contradiction, but I cannot impose my finite grasp of reality upon a god.

OK I can accept that. I might not agree but I see where you're coming from.

 

[ding]

Imposing my limited grasp of reality upon a god would be hubristic.

Do thought exercises impose limitations? Or do they provide intellectual stimulation which can possibly inform one's behaviors and actions?

Is it even possible for your thoughts to limit God or impose restrictions on God?

 

[schmidlap]

MLK responds...

"...We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. This applies to the power of a gun, or a drug, or an argument, or even a sermon! Does it achieve its end? Does it fulfill its purpose?

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them. We can see this clearly in human illustrations. My purpose in doing a crossword puzzle is not to fill in certain words. I could fill them in easily by waiting for tomorrow morning's paper. Filling them in without the answers is harder but much more satisfying, for it calls out resourcefulness, ingenuity, and discipline which by the easier way would find no self expression.

God is beyond the comprehension of finite beings, certainly their capacity to define a god's "purpose" - although many attempt it.

 

[ding]

MLK responds...

"...We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. This applies to the power of a gun, or a drug, or an argument, or even a sermon! Does it achieve its end? Does it fulfill its purpose?

We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them. We can see this clearly in human illustrations. My purpose in doing a crossword puzzle is not to fill in certain words. I could fill them in easily by waiting for tomorrow morning's paper. Filling them in without the answers is harder but much more satisfying, for it calls out resourcefulness, ingenuity, and discipline which by the easier way would find no self expression.

God is beyond the comprehension of finite beings, certainly their capacity to define a god's "purpose" - although many attempt it.

So no one should ever engage in any thought exercises whatsoever concerning God?

 

[Meriweather]

God is beyond the comprehension of finite beings, certainly their capacity to define a god's "purpose" - although many attempt it.

We have the beginning steps. Love God, love your fellowman.

 

[schmidlap]

OK I can accept that. I might not agree but I see where you're coming from.

Thank you. I accept and acknowledge my inherent limitations in comprehending and defining god(s), but that only increases my awe of god(s), rather than diminishing it.

 

[schmidlap]

So no one should ever engage in any thought exercises whatsoever concerning God?

It is in the nature of man to muse about what is beyond his comprehension.

 

[ding]

So no one should ever engage in any thought exercises whatsoever concerning God?

It is in the nature of man to muse about what is beyond his comprehension.

And by your reasoning no benefit can ever be gained from such endeavors, right?

 

[schmidlap]

We have the beginning steps. Love God, love your fellowman.

We, as fortuitous, temporary confluences of atoms, are privileged to be aware of the existence of which we are an integral part.

Why not embrace the opportunity with gratitude, and express it to one another?

 

[Meriweather]

Why not embrace the opportunity with gratitude, and express it to one another?

And after we have done that?

 

[schmidlap]

And by your reasoning no benefit can ever be gained from such endeavors, right?

Honestly acknowledging limitations should not extinguish aspirations.

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?"

 

[schmidlap]

And after we have done that?

After we have done that, we return from whence we came, the fortuitous confluence of atoms again integrating with the universe.

 

[ding]

And by your reasoning no benefit can ever be gained from such endeavors, right?

Honestly acknowledging limitations should not extinguish aspirations.

"A man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?"

Nor should it prevent one from seeking understanding.

And then there is the revealed religion of Christianity.

 

[Meriweather]

After we have done that, we return from whence we came, the fortuitous confluence of atoms again integrating with the universe.

Doing that should take thirty seconds, max. What is our purpose here?