If we Socialize Medicine, can we get rid of Insurance Companies?

[Mr. Shaman]

Profit does not belong in prisons or hospitals

I would disagree, to an extent.

Profit can certainly have a place.

Yeah....just ask the stock-holders & Execs, who are taking 20%, off-the-TOP....
....before any CARE-buck$ are distributed!!!!!​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

In socialized medicine, the government becomes the insurance company.

Single-payer is NOT socialized-medicine!!!!

​

 

[tooAlive]

In socialized medicine, the government becomes the insurance company. That means, ulitimately, bereaucrats will decide what health care you receive. Already, we see the self-righteous cryng for the life's blood of the obese and smokers. It will get worse.

When insurance companies cannot base their rates on evaluated risk, and that's what Obama's policies dictate, they will surely go out of business. So it's simply a matter of time before the government takes over completely.

The only cure for this is a market economy where supply and demand are in equilibrium. Once corporations took over the medical profession, they began to use the government to manipulate the market via regulation. That's why we're in the shape we are in today --- heavy demand and a short supply.

In other words, we're screwed.

That's the reason why I'd be against a socialized government-run system.

As like you said, they'd effectively take over the place of the insurance companies. And I'd much rather deal with privately run insurance companies than just one government run entity.

They haven't proven they're good at running anything, so why let them experiment with our healthcare system?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The folks in countries with socialized health care live longer, more healthily, for less cost.

Fact.

Like in Cuba.

Laugh.

Try, again, Skippy.....

The Stockholm Syndrome I​

*

The Stockholm Syndrome II​

*

Down Mexico Way

​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The folks in countries with socialized health care live longer, more healthily, for less cost.

Fact.

Like in Cuba.

Laugh.

Try, again, Skippy.....


*

The Stockholm Syndrome II​

*

Down Mexico Way

​

Like in Cuba.

Laugh.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

If we Socialize Medicine, can we get rid of Insurance Companies?

Republicans would never let it happen.

Let's see 'em stop....

....Vermont!!!!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Then let the government allow the companies to COMPETE for its single payer payment.

Prices will drop dramatically.

THERE IS NO NEED FOR A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM!!!​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Like in Cuba.

Laugh.

Health Care in Cuba

The Cuban health care system is respected around the world, and is literally decades more advanced than any system found in Latin America. For this reason, the Cuban system serves as a model for Third World developing nations.

Why is that funny?

With all due respect,

That's nothing but pure propaganda. The Cuban healthcare system, along with any other government-run program in Cuba are all complete disasters.

Praising the Cuban healthcare system is a joke. If you don't believe me, take a vacation to Cuba and visit the hospitals the locals use.

Quit begging others to do your research, for you....

What Cuba Can Teach Us About Health Care

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Healthmyths,
Please don't start with your personal insults and screaching rhetoric. First of all, you are going to give yourself a coronary. Second, you have zero credentials in health insurance compared to me. My 50 year career was spent in health insurance, including over 25 years in senior managment at the VP level. Go to the library, and read the March 3 issue of Time Magazine, which is dedicated totally to health care costs, then get back to me. It is the first time I have ever seen the whole convaluted system exposed in a way that people can understand.

Right... And I started a company (NOT work for..STARTED!!) that every day 24 hours thousands of requests to advise medicare providers whether they will be paid!
So I have better obviously credentials then YOU!

So, you're benefiting from the Status Quo!

Yeah....that'd explain your desperation.

Gee.....I guess it's boot-straps time, for you. Get-to-it....and, quit whining

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Like in Cuba.

Laugh.

Health Care in Cuba

The Cuban health care system is respected around the world, and is literally decades more advanced than any system found in Latin America. For this reason, the Cuban system serves as a model for Third World developing nations.

Why is that funny?

Just a fact presented about Cuban economic system that was touted by moore's movie that :
"The cost of cleanliness will rise in Cuba after its cash-strapped, communist government announced
Wednesday that soap, toothpaste and detergent will be slashed from monthly ration books.

Yeah.....I'm sure that's got nothing to do with U.S. policy, towards Cuba.

Shouldn't you be spending more time looking for a job....or, starting a new business....rather-than perpetually-whining?

​

 

[tooAlive]

Health Care in Cuba

The Cuban health care system is respected around the world, and is literally decades more advanced than any system found in Latin America. For this reason, the Cuban system serves as a model for Third World developing nations.

Why is that funny?

With all due respect,

That's nothing but pure propaganda. The Cuban healthcare system, along with any other government-run program in Cuba are all complete disasters.

Praising the Cuban healthcare system is a joke. If you don't believe me, take a vacation to Cuba and visit the hospitals the locals use.

Quit begging others to do your research, for you....

What Cuba Can Teach Us About Health Care

I speak from experience. Last time I went was about 6 months ago.

I had to take my grandfather to one of the larger and supposedly better hospitals in Cuba.

Everything they say praising the Cuban healthcare system is propaganda. If you don't believe me check it out for yourself. I already have.

 

[francoHFW]

Cuba has better results. Until O-care starts...

Gov't is bad at this? What about Medicare... And the cost is due to our ridiculous GOP health system. So far.

 

[Sallow]

In socialized medicine, the government becomes the insurance company. That means, ulitimately, bereaucrats will decide what health care you receive. Already, we see the self-righteous cryng for the life's blood of the obese and smokers. It will get worse.

When insurance companies cannot base their rates on evaluated risk, and that's what Obama's policies dictate, they will surely go out of business. So it's simply a matter of time before the government takes over completely.

The only cure for this is a market economy where supply and demand are in equilibrium. Once corporations took over the medical profession, they began to use the government to manipulate the market via regulation. That's why we're in the shape we are in today --- heavy demand and a short supply.

In other words, we're screwed.

That's the reason why I'd be against a socialized government-run system.

As like you said, they'd effectively take over the place of the insurance companies. And I'd much rather deal with privately run insurance companies than just one government run entity.

They haven't proven they're good at running anything, so why let them experiment with our healthcare system?

If Hitler, Tojo and Mussolini were around..they'd disagree.

 

[boedicca]

Uh...being good at Killing People isn't exactly an attribute an intelligent person would want in a Health Care Administrator.

 

[bripat9643]

ACA is the health insurance's industry to get it right. If it can't make the 80% requirement of dollars spent on care and delivery while trying to maintain the outlandish profit and dividend margins (making profit through denying coverage to the ill), then single payer for all (Medicare) will be the next step.

There's nothing "outlandish" about insurance industry profits. 6% is hardly a reason for outrage. The cost of healthcare is so high precisely because of government meddling. Laws that limit the number of hospitals that can be built are a classic example. When you restrict the supply of hospital beds, you drive up the price. It's simple economics.

 

[g5000]

I was thinking about it this morning.

If the government is in the process of socializing medicine and making it available to everybody, wouldn't that eliminate the need for insurance companies?

I mean, why would there even be any? They don't provide any medical service. If anything they would only slow things down. And I'd also assume they'd artificially drive the cost of healthcare up, as they would essentially be making profits without offering any real value. And they do make quite a bit of profit.

Wouldn't this also make the cost of healthcare much cheaper?

I understand this idea is a bit radical, especially for a conservative like myself. But as a fiscal conservative I'm also against waste and inefficiency. Hence, medical insurance companies came to mind.

What are your thoughts?

In the immortal words of the Canadian Supreme Court, "Access to a waiting list is not access to healthcare."

Canada tried to ban private health insurance companies. This was found to be unconstitutional for the reason I quoted.

So...no. If we socialize medicine, we will still need private insurance companies.

I think you will find private insurance companies in nearly every country that has socialized medicine. Only North Korea and Cuba ban private insurance.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I worked in Japan for a decade.....never gave a nickel to a health insurance company......even though they do exist. Single payer health care removes the profit motive from the equation. Costs come down and care goes up.

Guess who doesn't have to pay for or administer health insurance programs in Japan. Go ahead.

Japan is hailed as a great socialized system......it may seem so on the surface......but one reason people are healthier there is because they eat less and stay trim....

but the system is failing due to many problems.....and Japan is shrinking.....there are fewer workers as the population ages and less growth...

Like other service industries in Japan, there are cumbersome rules, too many small players and few incentives to improve. Doctors are too few—one-third less than the rich-world average, relative to the population—because of state quotas.
...
On the positive side, patients can nearly always see a doctor within a day. But they must often wait hours for a three-minute consultation. Complicated cases get too little attention. The Japanese are only a quarter as likely as the Americans or French to suffer a heart attack, but twice as likely to die if they do.
....
The system is slow to adopt cutting-edge (and therefore costly) treatments. New drugs are approved faster in Indonesia or Turkey, according to the OECD.


Health care in Japan: Not all smiles | The Economist

 

[Vandalshandle]

Mr. Shaman,

You are absoluetly right about the government subsidizing HMO's and Health Insurers through Medicare Advantage plans. The last company I worked for before I retired was in hog's heaven when they landed Medicare Advantage and CHAMPUS contracts. Due to their provider contracts, they had absolutely no risk of loss whatsoever, and guaranteed profit. The providers, who have contracted for fixed rates, have the risk of getting too many patients that are so sick, they need twice the care of what they assumed when they set their price for a provider contract. However, it is wrong to assume that the insurers and HMO's are going to suffer as these subsidies begin to disappear. As an executive in that business, I can promise you that, instead, the extra benefits that carriers provide to insureds will disappear. They will also squeeze their providers even more, by lowering their contracted rates. If United Health care tells St. Mary's Hospital to accept a 10% cut in reimbursement, or else, United will contract with Community Hospital instead, in which case, St. Mary's Hospital will loose a patient base of 200,000 people...well, trust me, St. Mary's will cut their rate, and then HMO will come out of it making the same money they alwasy did. HMO's and Insurance companies have manuvered themselves into a win/win situation, just like the RX companies, who have managed to get a law passed that the government not be allowed to negotitate prices with them.

I have no fear that My Vanguard health based mutual fund is going to loose value.

How do I feel about this? I am strongly in favor of single payer universal health plans, bypassing the insurance companies altogether. but, it ain't going to happen, and I would be a fool not to cash in on that fact, so I am buying their stocks.

 

[lynn63]

I was thinking about it this morning.

If the government is in the process of socializing medicine and making it available to everybody, wouldn't that eliminate the need for insurance companies?

I mean, why would there even be any? They don't provide any medical service. If anything they would only slow things down. And I'd also assume they'd artificially drive the cost of healthcare up, as they would essentially be making profits without offering any real value. And they do make quite a bit of profit.

Wouldn't this also make the cost of healthcare much cheaper?

I understand this idea is a bit radical, especially for a conservative like myself. But as a fiscal conservative I'm also against waste and inefficiency. Hence, medical insurance companies came to mind.

What are your thoughts?

Why that's what Obama Prefers!!! Obama has said: "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program."Obama's words exactly!!
which means that you and he ...
prefer to destroy the 1,300 health insurance companies
that pay $100 billion a YEAR in Federal/State/Local taxes AND local property taxes on their office buildings!
You and Obama prefer to put out of work the 400,000 people that work in the health insurance companies!"
YOU and Obama prefer to pay out over 99 weeks at $300/week -- $11.8 billion in unemployment benefits.
You and Obama prefer to make up out of YOUR tax payments
400,000 employees at $40,000/year SS/Medicare payments of @15.3% paid by employer/employee or $2.4 billion a year paid into Federal govt.

All in in you and Obama prefer that local property taxes will increase because non-profits i.e. govt. don't pay property taxes!

All in all you and Obama prefer to destroy federal tax on dividends paid out to those evil money grubbing pension funds, 401Ks,etc. based on the reality that
the AVERAGE insurance company's net profit BEFORE TAXES is 4.6%?

You are in favor OF THAT but you won't tax LAWYERS 10% of their $200 billion a year income to be used to pay the premium on the truly 4 million uninsured..
(AGAIN you don't seem to handle simple math:
10 million Obama counts as "uninsured" NOT CITIZENS! 14 million he counts as uninsured. Covered already by Medicaid and the biggest phoniest lie
18 million people who pay out of their OwN pocket annually less then $1,000 for health services refuse employer insurance and there fore counted as "uninsured" falsely!
These 18 million are under 34 and make over $50K and they are NOT happy about buying health insurance!
That leaves 4 million truly uninsured that every time they go to the hospital all they need to is show they are registered as a member of the Uninsured Health Insurance Co.!
Hospitals send claims and not allowed to charge then Medicare/insurance companies sometimes 6,000% markups because of EMTALA!!!

But you want the ambulance chasing lawyers to continue putting $850 billion a year in defensive medicine.. (BY FAR the biggest cost driver in insurance premiums/Medicare)
all because the experts i.e. physicians FEAR BEING SUED!
And your solution is to put insurance companies out of business.. causing $100 billion a year in lost tax revenue, putting 400,000 people out of work who'll collect $11 billion?

That's your solution???

Obama also said he wants companies to go bankrupt!!!
"if somebody wants to build coal utility plant it’s just that it will bankrupt them,![/I][/B][/COLOR]"
Why would ANY president want any business to go bankrupt?

And he went on to say: “Under my plan....electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket."
Why would ANY president want electricity rates to skyrocket???

D) Obama said "I'd like higher gas prices.."
WHAT? A president WANTS YOU to pay HIGHER gas prices?

I mean seriously... YOU want health insurance companies to go out of business and in doing so stop paying $100 billion in state taxes, federal taxes, property taxes, sales and use taxes, payroll taxes, workers compensation taxes and unemployment taxes.?

See I don't think YOU much less Obama KNOW HOW MUCH in TAXES businesses pay!

If the insurance companies don't want to be eliminated then they can stop expanding to global markets and use that extra cash into lower deductibles and premiums for US citizens.

 

[g5000]

I worked in Japan for a decade.....never gave a nickel to a health insurance company......even though they do exist. Single payer health care removes the profit motive from the equation. Costs come down and care goes up.

Guess who doesn't have to pay for or administer health insurance programs in Japan. Go ahead.

Guess what Japan's debt to GDP ratio is. Go ahead.

Kuroda warns Japan debt ‘not sustainable’