If unions are so fucking great then why do they have to force people to join?

[NYcarbineer]

I hate to break it to you,

but none of your lives are going to get better as more and more Americans work for less and less money.

Less full time work(40 hours) is being offered also. I see more and more working several jobs to make one living wage. Some have college degrees.

Years and years of unions getting weaker and what's gotten better for the average working class American?

Nothing. We have fewer good paying jobs, fewer working/middle class families that can live on one person's job.

I'd like to hear from the anti-union people:

What was/is supposed to get better for the average American as unions get weaker and unionized employees fewer in number,

and what has gotten better? If getting rid of unions and stripping workers of their rights, their power to bargain, etc., is such a good thing...

...where are we seeing the net benefit?

 

[GoneBezerk]

A classmate of mine joined a union in a nearby city working at a big KRAFT plant back in the 80s out of high school because he liked their salary and benefits compared to making less somewhere else especially while going to college like me.

Today I make over $100,000 a year and I doubt he is making that if he is still back in Illinois in the union or maybe he is making $80,000...who knows.

The point is people like him think they should be making what college graduates are making when we're both in our 40s, so they strike and strike and strike until a company is being robbed so that these losers are making close to what their old high school classmates make in better careers.

 

[Mr Natural]

If unions are so fucking great then why do they have to force people to join?

Because at some point in that particular company's past, management fucked over the workers so bad that the workers felt they had to orangnize.

It doesn't take a whole lot of effort on management's part to keep unions away from their company.

 

[GoneBezerk]

Sure....idiot.

Most people on this planet when offered a chance to make more money at their job, take the deal.

The unions show up telling workers they will make more money by working together and striking against the company, then most workers join the union if they are clueless about the long term effects of losing the company in the end.

Parasites eventually kill their hosts.

If unions are so fucking great then why do they have to force people to join?

Because at some point in that particular company's past, management fucked over the workers so bad that the workers felt they had to orangnize.

It doesn't take a whole lot of effort on management's part to keep unions away from their company.

 

[Dreamy]

If unions are so fucking great then why do they have to force people to join?

Because at some point in that particular company's past, management fucked over the workers so bad that the workers felt they had to orangnize.

It doesn't take a whole lot of effort on management's part to keep unions away from their company.

People speak of union intimidation but rarely discuss company intimidation. It happens. And it is illegal to stop any workers from talking to unions.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

F--k Unions....................

Let those mindless thugs start their own business'es and run them into the ground the way they like.....

 

[blastoff]

A trade show at the Javits Convention Center in NYC. Our company's product display booth consisted of 6 modules that connected together and each had a cord to power its lighting. The male end of one module's cord connected into the female end of its neighboring module's cord and so on. Total time needed to make all six connections was less than a minute. But no one from the company could perform such a highly unskilled task. Instead, we were required to hire one of the union electricians on site, at $80-something an hour for a TWO-HOUR minimum.

But no sweat. In the end our bean counters factored the expense into the cost of our products to our accounts, who in turn passed it along to the consuming public. So I always look for that friggin' union label, and then look for an alternative without one.

omg... convention centers just crack me up... Its a total union scam! You cant move a box of papers in and out.... you have to have a union worker do it.

Amen. I only relayed a bit about the electricians' union creeps. Got held up similarly by the carpenters' union stooges too and another group of deadbeats whose union name escapes me at the moment. But regardless of which union those slimeballs belonged to they all had one thing in common. They'd steal anything that wasn't nailed down to the point we'd have to appoint one of us to just watch our stuff - coats, jackets, briefcases, etc. - during set up and tear down or things would just disappear. I've dealt with dozens if not hundreds of those union clowns and they're all worthless pieces of crap, complete losers whose only salvation in life was to land a job in a friggin' union.

 

[Mr Natural]

Sure....idiot.

Most people on this planet when offered a chance to make more money at their job, take the deal.

The unions show up telling workers they will make more money by working together and striking against the company, then most workers join the union if they are clueless about the long term effects of losing the company in the end.

Parasites eventually kill their hosts.

If unions are so fucking great then why do they have to force people to join?

Because at some point in that particular company's past, management fucked over the workers so bad that the workers felt they had to orangnize.

It doesn't take a whole lot of effort on management's part to keep unions away from their company.

"Workers are parasites!"

Maybe that can be a new republican slogan.

Catchy, ay?

 

[LilOlLady]

Riddle me that, Batman.

As usually a village idiot tha'ts been listening to FoxNews too much and don't know lie when they are up his ass. No one is forced to join the union. I worked for the us postal services and some people joined the union and I wish I had because they were there for those who had problems with the uspo. Dues paid was will worth it. Unions stand up for workers rights. Right to Work law take rights away from workers. You can be fired just because the boss don't like the way you walk.

Why join a union
Forming a union changes the basic power relationship at work. Without a union, employers have almost all the rights. They can change your pay and working conditions at any time as long as they do not violate certain laws, like the minimum wage. Any benefits you receive are at the discretion of your employer.
Why join a union

Basically means you are fucked without the Union. And federal law already prohibits unions from requiring membership.

 

[blastoff]

Hey, OlBat. So if no one is forced to join a union but then someone isn't hired because they won't join the union, please explain to the class why that's so?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hey, OlBat. So if no one is forced to join a union but then someone isn't hired because they won't join the union, please explain to the class why that's so?

If a company has agreed, by contract, that a union will represent certain employees, and the company has agreed, by contract, that those employees will be charged a fee for that representation,

then paying that fee becomes a condition of employment, like any other condition of employment. If you refuse to abide by that company's conditions of employment,

then they won't hire you.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I hate to break it to you,

but none of your lives are going to get better as more and more Americans work for less and less money.

Less full time work(40 hours) is being offered also. I see more and more working several jobs to make one living wage. Some have college degrees.

Years and years of unions getting weaker and what's gotten better for the average working class American?

Nothing. We have fewer good paying jobs, fewer working/middle class families that can live on one person's job.

I'd like to hear from the anti-union people:

What was/is supposed to get better for the average American as unions get weaker and unionized employees fewer in number,

and what has gotten better? If getting rid of unions and stripping workers of their rights, their power to bargain, etc., is such a good thing...

...where are we seeing the net benefit?

And again, as often as I ask this question, none of the anti-union people around here have an answer,

much less a satisfactory answer.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Right to Work states have lower unemployment than non-right to work states.

There is the benefit. Not everyone gets to make the same amount of money each year. And frankly, decreased wages means one thing to businesses that rely on consumers. Price reductions or no business. Economics, it's apparently a lot more difficult than some of us ever thought.

I blame Krugman.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Less full time work(40 hours) is being offered also. I see more and more working several jobs to make one living wage. Some have college degrees.

Years and years of unions getting weaker and what's gotten better for the average working class American?

Nothing. We have fewer good paying jobs, fewer working/middle class families that can live on one person's job.

I'd like to hear from the anti-union people:

What was/is supposed to get better for the average American as unions get weaker and unionized employees fewer in number,

and what has gotten better? If getting rid of unions and stripping workers of their rights, their power to bargain, etc., is such a good thing...

...where are we seeing the net benefit?

And again, as often as I ask this question, none of the anti-union people around here have an answer,

much less a satisfactory answer.

The original intent of the unions was achieved decades ago. They now serve no purpose beyond pilfering the payroll of those they represent.

Now we have osha and a plethora of other agencies that do the work the unions used to do. And then there is the courts that right wrongs.

The union is obsolete, they just haven't realized it yet. A wise instirution would change with the times and find new ways to be relevant. It really is a shame no one is smart enough to figure this out except for those not in the union.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Years and years of unions getting weaker and what's gotten better for the average working class American?

Nothing. We have fewer good paying jobs, fewer working/middle class families that can live on one person's job.

I'd like to hear from the anti-union people:

What was/is supposed to get better for the average American as unions get weaker and unionized employees fewer in number,

and what has gotten better? If getting rid of unions and stripping workers of their rights, their power to bargain, etc., is such a good thing...

...where are we seeing the net benefit?

And again, as often as I ask this question, none of the anti-union people around here have an answer,

much less a satisfactory answer.

The original intent of the unions was achieved decades ago. They now serve no purpose beyond pilfering the payroll of those they represent.

Now we have osha and a plethora of other agencies that do the work the unions used to do. And then there is the courts that right wrongs.

The union is obsolete, they just haven't realized it yet. A wise instirution would change with the times and find new ways to be relevant. It really is a shame no one is smart enough to figure this out except for those not in the union.

That didn't answer my question. How have things gotten better for the average American worker as unions have declined in number and influence?

Have wages gotten better on average? Are more good paying jobs being created? Is the average family better off now? Are fewer households needing 2 incomes to live decently?

What is the NET BENEFIT of losing organized labor? Who won, if labor lost?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

And again, as often as I ask this question, none of the anti-union people around here have an answer,

much less a satisfactory answer.

The original intent of the unions was achieved decades ago. They now serve no purpose beyond pilfering the payroll of those they represent.

Now we have osha and a plethora of other agencies that do the work the unions used to do. And then there is the courts that right wrongs.

The union is obsolete, they just haven't realized it yet. A wise instirution would change with the times and find new ways to be relevant. It really is a shame no one is smart enough to figure this out except for those not in the union.

That didn't answer my question. How have things gotten better for the average American worker as unions have declined in number and influence?

Have wages gotten better on average? Are more good paying jobs being created? Is the average family better off now? Are fewer households needing 2 incomes to live decently?

What is the NET BENEFIT of losing organized labor? Who won, if labor lost?

You're asking the wrong question.

Unions do exist and all those things your asking still haven't happened. So it seems to me that the unions are no longer serving their purpose.

 

[bripat9643]

The answer would involve you accepting that companies pull some pretty underhanded shit to get the unions out of their shops and that right to work is powerful weapon in the fight to bust the union. Of course you probably see union busting as a honorable activity even though it ultimately removes the choice of being under the protection of union.

Liberal Dictionary:
======================================
Union busting - giving people the choice not to join a union.

 

[bripat9643]

It's ever so much easier to get them out than it is to get them back, it can be done with a single vote. If the choice was as easy in both directions it would not be so bad but many of these right to work states also demand far too many bullshit procedural opportunities for management to cajole, threaten, coerce, undermine, etc. before a vote can even be taken to unionize. Betcha didn't even know that did you? Bet you thought workers could just vote and presto, Unionization, oh no, my state demands a so called cooling off period between a first vote and a second vote where management gets to do all kinds of shit.

You mean the management gets a chance to explain to their employees what the consequences of unionization are?

Horrors! Next they'll be demanding freedom of speech!

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Isn't the TSA unionized? I'm sitting here at Hobby airport waiting on my flight, and I've seen a dozen or so TSA employees just hanging around... Doing nothing. Must be nice.

 

[bripat9643]

Riddle me that, Batman.

they aren't "forcing anyone"


they let you know up front that they will prevent you from working if you dont join
they also let you know in no uncertain terms that they will beat you up and trash your property if you dont join when TOLD to join.

It's a bit like what happened to those who tried starting unions in the past. Most of the time they were harassed, beaten, and sometimes even killed if they were known to be making an attempt to unionize certain companies.

There is one fact that cannot be denied. Unions have had a positive affect on workers wages over the years, and the economy as a whole has benefited from that.

That so-called "fact" can easily be denied. Although it cannot be denied that the unions of increased the pay of their members, the claim that they have increased the pay of non-members. Compulsory unionism actually decreases the pay of non members. Union extortion does nothing to increase the overall productivity of out economy. If the wages of union members increases, then other wages must decrease.

In cases where unions got more than they really deserved, you can blame that on the companies that caved in to them.

So if you mug me and take all my money, it's my fault for "caving in?" What you don't seem to get, asshole, is the union contracts are not voluntary on the part of the employer. The government holds a gun to an employers head and forces him to "agree" to a union contract. That's what the government euphemistically calls "bargaining in good faith."

It's like when you sell your house. If you cave in and sell for less than you want because you are unwilling to hold out a bit longer, don't blame the buyer for screwing you. But that is what so many of you do.

It would only be like that if the government was holding a gun on you and forcing you take make an "agreement" with a particular purchaser.