If Trump had truly wanted to get a deal done with Ukraine, he...

TemplarKormac

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...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.

Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.
 
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That's Churchill at the White House
 
...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.

Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.
Who played who?

Z had refused to sign 2 times already. So did Z agree to sign with the intent to back out and put Trump in a spot, or after being insulted onnclothes said FUCK THIS.

Im not really sure, but wirhout us getting a better deal with Russia is gonna be a whole lot harder.
 
...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.

Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.

But...but....were you not entertained? :laughing0301:
 
That whole thing with about the suit was especially childish. There is this hollow expectation of decorum at the White House when none has been shown by either side or any person for more than two decades now.
 
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That whole thing with about the suit was especially childish. There is this hollow expectation of decorum at the White House when none has been shown by either side or any person for more than a decade now.
The suit comments were BS. Brought about by a reporter. Trump did say not wearing a suit was ok.

But it started a back and forth argument.
 

If Trump had truly wanted to get a deal done with Ukraine, he...​

...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Really? What if it was Zelensky's desire to hold the presser?
If Zelensky truly wanted to get a deal done for Ukraine, all he had to do was show up appropriately dressed, act dignified and respectful, and show the slightest bit of appreciation for the enormous gift we were handing him.

Instead, he acted like a complete ass, like a little kid who got PlayStation III and twelve games for Christmas but then bitched and said he wanted XBox too.
 
...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.

Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.

Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.

Actually I think Trump was caught by surprise...
 
...wouldn't have held a presser right before the signing. It was an ambush.
I don't believe it was an ambush in the sense that no matter what Zelenskyy did or said, it would end that way.

I do believe that Trump said to Vance beforehand, something like, "If he starts pushing back immediately, before we've had our say, we're not doing to let him turn it into a pity party for himself and Ukraine for the benefit of the reporters."

If I'm right, then in that sense, both men knew such an ending was possible. But I'm speculating like everyone else.
Change my mind. I want to hear both sides explain why or why not.

Personally, it was a childish display from both sides. Zelensky's body language, Vance's demands for thanks. The media questions about Zelensky not wearing a suit. It was all pretty childish.
Yes, it was. It was a little childish.

Zelenskyy seemed not to understand that the presser was not the time to negotiate.

IMHO, the key problem was Zelenskyy's lack of knowledge of American English. Not just the grammar and the syntax, etc. but lack of experience in speaking English with Americans. I believe he barely understands the literal meanings when an American speaks English, so he certainly struggles to understand implied meanings.

He's too proud to have an interpretter speak his words for him. Even if he spoke English perfectly, that would be a big advantage. Give him time to think while the English was translated into Ukraine, and he could gain more time by telling his interpretter (in Ukrainian) "I need a moment to think so I'm going to think out loud and then tell you what to say."



He asked "what kind of diplomacy,' in a very suspicious tone. What kinds are there? An infinite number of kinds, all under the same umbrella of the one kind: trying to use words to avoid or stop the use of bullets. He sounded very petulent and if he truly thought Trump was there to announce that he had changed his mind and would commit full U.S. troops to the destruction of Russia, WWIII be damned.
Was there some hidden tactic behind that farce? You tell me. Because now Zelensky is signaling his willingness to sign the deal.
The second sentence answers the question before it. Of course there was a tactic.

I said as soon as that meeting was over that Trump was softening Zelenskyy up. Zelenskyy has been on his high horse for a couple of years now, when talking to American politicians, and sadly, congressfolk on both sides of the aisle have encouraged his self-rightiousness.

He needed to know that there is a new president who will not be intimidated by his appeals to the media. He needs to know that America is now being put first and that if he wants to benefit from the strength of the U.S., he should understand that we're not going to sacrifice our own safety and economy for him.
 
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That whole thing with about the suit was especially childish. There is this hollow expectation of decorum at the White House when none has been shown by either side or any person for more than a decade now.
The shallow suit show was initiated by MTG's boyfriend (?), the extremist idiot Brian Glenn. Did he replace AP?
Anyway, that crap show continued with JD's ridiculous accusations that Zelenskyy is not appreciative of US aid and he gives Ukraine tours to politicians as "propaganda". Huh? Is JD that stupid or was his job to ambush Zelenskyy to please Putin so Trump can continue his bromance?
 
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