If this is true, we are in trouble...

[OnePercenter]

Automation increases productivity, and thus more production, and therefor WEALTH created.

That wealth was never seen, because of Illegals, because of outsourcing, because of monopolies laying people off, and raising prices.

This is CRAPitalist America, and it's even worse than Soviet Russia.

At least in Soviet Russia they didn't funnel all the jobs into foreigners hands who despise them.

I don't see how we're not going to "NATURALLY" collapse in the near future, if we don't end up killing each other in the streets first, and therefor "ARTIFICIALLY" collapse.

I'm glad I'll be off this planet by then; at least out of the workforce. I wouldn't want to be a person in the future with no aptitude to earn a higher education and try to make it on manual labor alone.

Millennials earn 20% less than Babyboomers did at the same age, Millennials have a net-worth 50% less than Babyboomers did at the same age.
(Of course adjusting for inflation AKA Real Wages)

This is startling, and shows the system that we have isn't working.

That can be attributed to a lot of things. For instance perhaps you read the conversation between Manonthestreet and I. Right now our industry needs over 30,000 more drivers that they can't find. They are turning to foreigners to take these jobs Americans won't do. And I can tell you some of those are pretty good paying jobs if you're willing to do the work.

So I think attitude has something to do with it as well. As a baby boomer myself, I can testify several times I had more than one job, or a job that I worked on Saturday as well. At one time I had three jobs. I'm no hero because several of my friends did the same thing. In fact one very close friend works at the company I do. He's been working two full-time jobs for over 30 years now.

You don't see that kind of effort to get ahead out of the millennials as you did in our generation. When we were younger all we thought about was money. How to make more, how to get a better job, work or hours was no hurdle for us.

The trucking industry has always been short of drivers because of the job itself. It's being exacerbated now because with ELD's (electronic logging devices) making it difficult, if not impossible, to cheat on HOS by playing logbook roulette.

The other two factors are detainment at shippers and/or receivers and receiving pay for the load.

In my mind, drivers that are detained should receive a $100.00 comm check after two hours of detainment for each hour and part of an hour of detainment.

Pay should be within 24 hours of a load. Factoring should be illegal.

Actually the problem with trucking is being away from home all the time and government. Government makes it harder and harder for us to make a living because truck drivers are not entitled to constitutional rights. So we are constantly getting pulled over, searched, inspected, and then handed a warning or even a ticket for stupid shit that doesn't mean anything. It's called quotas.

I'm a local driver so I'm home every night, but OTR guys have to tolerate these assholes almost every week. Now instead of having DOT (Department of Transportation) police hassling you, they are training state troopers to do the job because only a trooper can issue a ticket. DOT guys can only give you a warning. Now they are all over the place, and the more of them you have, the more you are likely to get pulled over. When I first started out over 25 years ago, you'd run across a DOT guy once every month. Now you come across 10 or more a day.

If you want to ruin a good thing, just get more government involved.

Most drivers do get layover time after one hour.

What do you think the sentence "The trucking industry has always been short of drivers because of the job itself." means?

Every vehicle in the "Great State" of Texas has to be inspected. Not California, nor Nevada, nor the majority of States. So that means (according to you) living in Texas means you have less "constitutional rights?"

Most truck drivers DO NOT get detention pay.

 

[OnePercenter]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The answer is a lot simpler than that. Eliminate inequality.

What inequality do you speak of? We all get paid what we are worth.

You get payed the minimum that your employer can get away with.

 

[OnePercenter]

True but not so much after the Grest Recession. While the wealthy pay most of the tax, they also get most of the benefits.

I am not seeing that. The wealthy don't qualify for earned income credit, SNAP, and more often than not pay taxes on a much larger percentage of their income than those of the middle class who pay taxes. Roughly 50% of wage earners pay little or nothing in taxes. You can't tell me the wealthy get much advantage, let along most of the advantages.

Did you read my OP? The government enriches the extreme wealthy with all sorts of goodies and sweet heart deal. It is the American Way.

Perhaps you can mention something the government does for the extremely wealthy that any one of us is not allowed to have?

Do you really think you get the same treatment from government that Bezos, Buffet, Gates, the dip shit from Facebook, the Google dorks, etc?

Does Amazon even pay taxes? Yet Bezos is the richest man in the world. Can you do that?

If you give politicians lots of money, don't you think they return the favor somehow? This kind of shit has been going on since Dishonest Abe did deals with the railroads.

You asking such a question does you no favors. After what the government and Fed did after the Great Recession. They merely threw money at the extreme wealthy. Where did all that $20 trillion go?

Yes, the exact same rules apply to you and me that apply to Bezos or anybody else doing business. If you don't like the rules that he plays by, then elect people to Congress who will change the rules. So far nobody on either side of the aisle seems inclined to make those changes. Why? Because such changes will hurt the little guy far more than they will hurt somebody like Bezos who already has more money than he will spend in a lifetime no matter what he buys.

The President is closing the silly loopholes available to the rich and famous such as those that create massive trade imbalances. And the left screams all manner of criticism and obscenities at him every time he does. But to cap the amount of profit any person is allowed to earn or any other measures that punish the rich for being rich is going to hurt the poorest among us the most. And that is a fact.

The President is closing the silly loopholes available to the rich and famous such as those that create massive trade imbalances.

tRump is doing no such thing. I have the same tax advantage, PLUS have to pay less in federal taxes.

Tariffs will do nothing except raise prices for consumers an increase inflation.

 

[OnePercenter]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

No, but we can't have unions forcing companies to grossly overpay their workers while Chinese make what they do. You can't compete that way, and outside of government, unions are now a thing of the past.

So you want to ****-over the American worker because the Chinese don't make as much?

 

[OnePercenter]

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

Urban legend. Need the Fact Check link, I'll be happy to provide it.

The only tax breaks businesses get for moving are moving expenses. That's it. It doesn't matter if you are moving from New York to Texas or from Minnesota to Indonesia. And nobody will stay in this country, put up with all the government BS, the taxation, the unions or higher wage workers for a measly tax break on moving expenses.

You also walk on deferred taxes.

 

[OnePercenter]

You don't stop any of it. In a free society, we are free to give our money to whoever we desire.

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

 

[OnePercenter]

Yeah it is all the fault of poor and middle class. Government, establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class are blameless.

LMFAO!

The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never made me spend more than I make
The government establishment, political parties, capitalism, the ruling class never stopped me from saving money

Stop blaming everyone else for your failures

It has nothing to do with saving or spending. It has everything to do with opportunity, freedom, and justice for all.

I’ve done extraordinarily well but unlike you, I care about my fellow man and the future of the country.

When enormous wealth is obtained by a small elite, opportunity, freedom, and justice are diminished for the vast majority of the people. We are witnessing it first hand but some like you, are blind to reality.

Savings leads to opportunity.

Saving leads to financial freedom

If you save your money you will be in control of your own fate.

So if you really cared about your fellow man you would be telling them to save their money and not denigrating them by telling them that the ******* government has to come to their aid.

You did well but do you really think everyone else is so pathetic they can't do as well or better than you unless the ******* government steps in?

I'm afraid you will never understand. Many Americans must endure tough circumstances in their youth. Their parents aren't around or harm them in some way. They attend pubic schools that teach them nothing. They are exposed to all sorts of dysfunction, yet you stay tough it out. WTF is wrong with you?

The real problem are single-parent families. Trust me, I live in a black area. I see it all the time.

A teacher can only teach. But if the students refuse to learn, or the parents are totally disassociated with their child's education, the best teachers in the country can't help.

My sister sent her two kids to private Catholic school until college. My niece started falling behind and was issued a warning by the school. When you pay mucho bucks to educate your kids, you make sure you're going to get your money's worth.

So my sister sat with her every night helping with homework. She was grounded until her grades drastically improved. Her entertainment like television and internet were severely limited. She spent most of her time studying.

Her grades went up real fast, but my sister still monitored her activity very closely.

Public school? Put the kid on the bus and they are the teachers problem now, not mine. Public school is not paid by just me, it's paid for by the taxpayers.

Catholic Schools receive tax subsidies.

 

[Bush92]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

That’s what happens when you lose manufacturing jobs in America to foreign countries.

 

[Bush92]

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

You don’t understand inflation do you? You like Ocasio “Castro” Cortez huh?

 

[OnePercenter]

It’s not the Government’s responsibility to provide healthcare. Just let the free market do I like 50 years ago.

It's the governments job to protect it's citizenry. Reagan nixed that by deregulating the bipartisan HMO Act.

Healthcare is not protecting the citizenry.

Healthcare is not protecting the citizenry.

By not getting screwed when paying for it, especially since healthcare in the US today is a capitalist racketeer company store monopoly.

So your solution is to subsidize the racketeers.

My solution for healthcare is to provide a single-payer non-profit private company (such as Kaiser) to negotiate prices from the healthcare insurance companies that already own or derive profit from 95% of current healthcare providers, which will bring healthcare costs down to a reasonable level.

Something nobody ever tried was lowering the cost of healthcare first, then finding a way to pay for it. We keep searching for ways to pay for healthcare without addressing the issues that make it too expensive in the first place. There are a dozen ways to do this; some of which would not cost us a dime. But nobody wants to address that problem. Just figure out who to send the bill to.

It was much cheaper prior to the deregulation of the HMO act and would have remained that way if not for Reagan.

 

[Bush92]

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

I feel that if Pol Pot was alive he would agree with you.

 

[OnePercenter]

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

You don’t understand inflation do you? You like Ocasio “Castro” Cortez huh?

You can't show how my plan would increase inflation.

 

[OnePercenter]

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

I feel that if Pol Pot was alive he would agree with you.

How so?

 

[Bush92]

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

You don’t understand inflation do you? You like Ocasio “Castro” Cortez huh?

You can't show how my plan would increase inflation.

You want the minimum wage to be $23.00 an hour? Shit man...a loaf of bread would cost $15.00.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

Its pretty much the same over here. I will also add in zero hours contracts. A large section of society does not earn enough to save for a pension and this will have a huge impact in 20 years or so.

Inequality is the big problem. Capital exploits the differences to drive down wages. Strike for better pay or conditions and we will move your job to India where they will work for half your pay. How to break the cycle is a big conundrum.

It's not a big conundrum.

All that needs to happen is to take away all the tax benefits of moving jobs out of America and impose huge penalties to move our jobs to low wage nations.

Impose huge penalties in the form of huge taxes on all companies that move our jobs to other nations. Make it very expensive to move our jobs out of our nation. The republicans enacted tax laws that reward companies for moving out of our nation in the reagan years when reagan was sending our jobs to Japan. When the House was in democratic hands in 2007 they passed a bill that removed tax benefits for moving our jobs to other nations. The republicans filibustered it when it got to the senate. republicans won't do one thing to penalize any company that moves our jobs to other nations.

When greedy CEOs and business owners see that it's more expensive to move our jobs out of the nation they will stop doing it.

Tariffs won't stop it. Giving corporations and business huge tax cuts won't stop it.

Imposing huge penalties will.

However, I thought trump and republicans have been declaring us at full employment with 3.7% unemployment. Why would anyone worry about jobs being sent off shore if we have such low unemployment?

By the way, the unemployment rate was 4.7% when Obama left office. trump has lowered the unemployment rate by 1% in nearly 2 years, yet republicans and conservatives believe he's responsible for such a low unemployment rate.

When any republican lowers the unemployment rate from 10% down to 4.7% I'll give them credit for it. Yet I've not seem any republican president do that in the last over 20 years.

The Capitalist Republican solution is to have Americans compete with China's wages.

Apparently we deserve less as a society.

No, but we can't have unions forcing companies to grossly overpay their workers while Chinese make what they do. You can't compete that way, and outside of government, unions are now a thing of the past.

So you want to ****-over the American worker because the Chinese don't make as much?

Its mad that people who moan most about "globalisation" are also virulent against workers trying to take action through their unions. How does that work ?

 

[sparky]

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

And here i thougth you a one line wonder Mr 1%er

My Bad

Grand plan, except for the fact that most in this thread can't get their heads around the fact that corporatism and governance are a symbiant entity in America

You see, your plan would be seen , and probably lauded as wealth redistrubution, although in reality it levels the playing field (there's so much more i'd add too) , and summarily dismissed as a socialist plot to tank capitalism

Ironically the very same congresscritters (many of which gained millionaire-hood serving) would glady allow thier elitist constituency bailouts as well as no % loans at the fed window

IE~Socialism for the rich, capitalism for the rest of us

~S~

 

[BuckToothMoron]

These statistics are claimed to be true:
1. 50% of American wage earners earn less than $30k.
2. 63% of Americans can’t afford a $1,000 emergency.
3. 80% of American workers live pay check to pay check.
4. Since 1973 American productivity has increased by 77%, yet hourly pay has grown by 12%. If the minimum wage was tracked to productivity, it would be over $20 an hour today.
5. 41% of American workers earn less than $12 per hour, with most without employer provided HC.
6. Since 2008 the federal government and the Fed created $26 trillion out of nothing. Was any of this enormous sum spent on infrastructure, public education, universal HC, bail out 5.1 million people who lost their homes?

Not a pretty picture for the poor and middle class. Hopefully things are improving or we are headed for big trouble.

If you want to know where that 26 trillion went, Look at the stock market which has added something like 20 trillion dollars since 2008 (with very little real growth mind you) and then check out home prices and you’ll likely find the rest of that money. The Fed printed money (QE) to stimulate the economy, but all they did is add to the wealth gap. Our founding fathers warned us about a central bank. 1913 was a very bad year for this country.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am not seeing that. The wealthy don't qualify for earned income credit, SNAP, and more often than not pay taxes on a much larger percentage of their income than those of the middle class who pay taxes. Roughly 50% of wage earners pay little or nothing in taxes. You can't tell me the wealthy get much advantage, let along most of the advantages.

Did you read my OP? The government enriches the extreme wealthy with all sorts of goodies and sweet heart deal. It is the American Way.

Perhaps you can mention something the government does for the extremely wealthy that any one of us is not allowed to have?

Do you really think you get the same treatment from government that Bezos, Buffet, Gates, the dip shit from Facebook, the Google dorks, etc?

Does Amazon even pay taxes? Yet Bezos is the richest man in the world. Can you do that?

If you give politicians lots of money, don't you think they return the favor somehow? This kind of shit has been going on since Dishonest Abe did deals with the railroads.

You asking such a question does you no favors. After what the government and Fed did after the Great Recession. They merely threw money at the extreme wealthy. Where did all that $20 trillion go?

Yes, the exact same rules apply to you and me that apply to Bezos or anybody else doing business. If you don't like the rules that he plays by, then elect people to Congress who will change the rules. So far nobody on either side of the aisle seems inclined to make those changes. Why? Because such changes will hurt the little guy far more than they will hurt somebody like Bezos who already has more money than he will spend in a lifetime no matter what he buys.

The President is closing the silly loopholes available to the rich and famous such as those that create massive trade imbalances. And the left screams all manner of criticism and obscenities at him every time he does. But to cap the amount of profit any person is allowed to earn or any other measures that punish the rich for being rich is going to hurt the poorest among us the most. And that is a fact.

The President is closing the silly loopholes available to the rich and famous such as those that create massive trade imbalances.

tRump is doing no such thing. I have the same tax advantage, PLUS have to pay less in federal taxes.

Tariffs will do nothing except raise prices for consumers an increase inflation.

Well so far they have allowed us to renegotiate much better trade deals with Mexico and Canada than what we had and the Europeans and Chinese are much closer to being ready to deal than they have ever been. Those silly little facts just tear up arguments like yours don't they.

 

[Foxfyre]

Well said.

Everybody in private society is worth in economic terms precisely what profit--not income but PROFIT--he/she can generate through one's own business or the value he/she has to an employer.

A CEO is paid according to his ability/expertise in generating profits for the owners/share holders of the corporation. A pro athlete is paid according to his ability to draw the fans, sell the beer and peanuts, market the paraphernalia, etc. and therefore generate profits for the owners/shareholders of the franchise. An actor or actress or other entertainer is paid according to his ability to draw patrons to the box office, sell CDs, DVDs, blu rays, or entice viewers to watch that rakes in the advertising revenues.

And each of these kinds of activities creates opportunities for others--designers, construction workers, behind the scenes employees, those providing raw materials, transportation, or whole products for resale, janitors etc--who in turn perhaps unknowingly provide other opportunities for people to profit. Each is working for his/her own benefit and may not be even conscious of 99.9 percent of what others contribute, but the process results in countless thousands/millions of people all unwittingly working together to make that football game or movie or concert or corporation possible, even successful.

And yes it may seem obscene that a CEO or entertainer earns millions while teachers, police officers, and other public servants earn so little in comparison. But if we think by reducing the amount that CEO or entertainer earns will in any way improve the situation for teachers or police officers, we are sadly mistaken. For by making the rich less rich, we will invariably reduce the resources available for the less rich.

You can rob the rich to pay the poor for only so long before there is no money to pay anybody. You simply cannot hurt or punish the rich without also hurting and punishing the much less rich.

I can't think of people who "CURRENTLY" cause more mayhem for the average US worker than business managers big or small.

The small business managers tend to hire illegals in mass.

The big business managers tend to hire people living in China first.

This is the problem people.

They are cutting our throats because hiring foreigners for less pays them more at society's expense.

Plain in simply the modern CEO is a parasite who devours society's well being piece by piece.

They simply deserve to be paid in dirt.

Sorry but those you deem as 'parasites' are simply responding to the U.S. systems that people who think like you insist on putting in place. If you allow the free market to work, and allow people to run their businesses in the most efficient way short of violating existing RICO and anti trust laws, you will see a lot less companies going overseas to do business. In fact the President's current reforms have made it much more attractive to do business here and we are beginning to see more companies coming back to America than we are seeing leaving America.

If the Democrats regain power, we will again see a business unfriendly climate that sends businesses elsewhere.

LOL, Unions went down significantly, real wages went down, productivity went way up, and yet it's all NOT ENOUGH for the gouging parasites called CEO's.

The problem is called greed, they will never be satisified with what they have here, they can make more overseas hiring people for less to undermine our economy.

That's the problem, it's un-American, and the exact opposite of patriotism.

As for Trump, here's the Trump economy in a nutshell.

/——/ Become a CEO and show us how it’s done.

Here ya go!

-Base Federal tax for corporations at 30% of revenue.

-Raise minimum wage to $23.50/hr. Based on where minimum wage should be using 1970-2018 rise in food, shelter, and transportation.

-Eliminate all business subsidies (deductions/write-offs/write-downs) except for employee expenses which are deducted dollar-for-dollar on all city, state, and Federal taxes and fees with the Feds refunding city, State, and fees.

-Companies with unlimited employees; employee expenses above the deduction are subsidized at 100% with funds usually give back to the States.

-Adjust Social Security and private/public retirement and pension payments using 1970-2018 price structure.

-Remove the FICA limit.

-Back down ALL costs, prices, fees, to January 1, 2009 levels and hold them for 15 years which will eliminate inflation.

-Recall ALL off-shore investments tax free, and disallow any further off-shore investments.

-Make inversion illegal.

My plan would reduce business costs for employees and taxes to 30%. That's a 15%-30% drop.

My plan would put BILLIONS into the economy daily.

My plan would put the $100 trillion plus currently owned by corporate America back into the economy.

My plan would end all welfare.

My plan would significantly increase social security and pension payments.

My plan would hold prices for 10 years, thus eliminating inflation.

Well other than throwing us into a deep essentially permanent recession, perhaps depression, making us totally uncompetitive with the rest of the world, and creating misery on a scale we haven't seen in America for a very long time, your plan is great.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

You're assuming I give a rats @ss about "Freedom" I really don't.

I care about results (Well being) of my society.

People shouldn't have the freedom to ruin the well being of society.

So who is ruining society and how? Freedom gives you the ability to work for somebody or not. It's not like Cuba where everybody basically works for the government.

That's why we're against drug dealers, we're against people who pee in alley-ways, we're against people who steal, people who touch themselves in movie theaters like Pee Wee, and also this really needs to be expanded to Illegal Immigrants, and Outsourced jobs, which also cause problems for "American society"

No, they cause problems for you but not for society. Society gets cheaper products which is what our society wants. If society didn't want that, they would quit purchasing those products. If society didn't like what a CEO made last year, they won't deal with his or her company.

You don't speak for society and neither do I. Society speaks for itself.

Besides, the American workers built these companies for years.

Now they're giving their own people the royal flush?

It's complete disrespect, and unpatriotic.

If they don't respect our country, they should suffer the consequences, plain, and simple.

Workers didn't build anything. Workers simply work. Companies and corporations do the building.

Nobody is getting the royal flush because nobody is forced to work for anybody. Employment is an agreement between employer and employee. Both agree to X before that union is formed.

To say that workers build nothing is ridiculous.

As if production can be achieved by CEO's alone.

I really believe some Corporate think tank pays you for propaganda.

You really got to wonder about someone who blames workers, or customers for CEO decisions to outsource.

It would be nice if we did have cheaper products but that never really happened.