Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
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This being the case, would you agree that ninety-five percent of your family and friends will be going to hell? Or, is it only ninety-five percent of "everyone else"?
If there is a God...
- Thread starter MPS777
- Start date
To add to that... I am paraphrasing something MLK said.
We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose.
We must realize that God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them.
Action, then, which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention when men of ill will do evil things. But the restraint is not weakness.
Montrovant
Fuzzy bears!
What about someone who has six incidents that immediately spring to mind that point to the actuality of God not caring for individuals on a deeply personal level, or even disliking individuals on a deeply personal level? Plenty of bad things happen to people, as well as good.
Plenty of bad things do happen to people. Things were not all sunshine and roses during some of the incidents God lent a hand to my life--and a couple were about as bad as it gets. What do you say: Should God be blamed that the bad ever happened in the first place? Is God to blame for all the other terrible things that happen when there is no experience of God?
I am not talking about bad things versus good things that happen in life. I am speaking about the actual presence of God that was experienced--some in very bad times; others in good.
Should god be blamed for all the bad? Well, if we are talking about a god that created everything, that is all-knowing and all-powerful, and a god that is given credit for all the good things that happen, yes.
You, and many others, say they have felt the presence of god. I always wonder, though, how do you know that is what you felt or experienced? How do you know what being in the presence of god (by whatever definition you believe in god) is like? And what about those who will claim to have been in the presence of demons, or the devil, or evil? Could that not also be the presence of god?
Good or bad or indifferent or nonexistent god, I don't think it's likely humanity will be around for the universe to reach a state of entropy.
Spare_change
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God has made it very clear that He is hands-off. He has granted us self determination. He has shown us the "Light" (what the rewards are - what heaven will be like) and the "Way" (how we have to live to gain those rewards). He has provided His guiding hand - but, in the end, we determine our eternal destination.What about someone who has six incidents that immediately spring to mind that point to the actuality of God not caring for individuals on a deeply personal level, or even disliking individuals on a deeply personal level? Plenty of bad things happen to people, as well as good.
Plenty of bad things do happen to people. Things were not all sunshine and roses during some of the incidents God lent a hand to my life--and a couple were about as bad as it gets. What do you say: Should God be blamed that the bad ever happened in the first place? Is God to blame for all the other terrible things that happen when there is no experience of God?
I am not talking about bad things versus good things that happen in life. I am speaking about the actual presence of God that was experienced--some in very bad times; others in good.
God can be blamed neither for the good, nor the bad, that happens in our lives. We may ASK for His intervention, but that does not necessarily mean we will get it.
There are three very important truths about evil that might help you. First, the Bible tells us that evil does not come from God, nor can we blame God for all the evils in the world. Evil comes instead from Satan, and it entered this world when Satan deceived Adam and Eve and caused them to turn against God. Both evil and Satan are real, and the two go hand-in-hand.
Second, the Bible tells us that someday all evil will be banished. The vast spiritual conflict between Satan and God that has raged from the beginning of time will be over, and God will be triumphant. Someday all evil will be cast “into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels”.
Third, the Bible tells us that in the meantime, God can give us victory over evil. This doesn’t mean bad things will never happen to us—but even when they do, we can know God is with us, and He will give us strength to stand against them. Isn’t it better to face life’s problems with God rather than without Him? No, we may not understand everything that happens to us—but when we know Christ, we know we are on the winning side.
God will, or will not, intervene in our live at His choosing, in accordance with His overall plan.
Spare_change
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Ignorance is a dangerous thing - in the hands of someone uncaring, it is a formidable weapon.What about someone who has six incidents that immediately spring to mind that point to the actuality of God not caring for individuals on a deeply personal level, or even disliking individuals on a deeply personal level? Plenty of bad things happen to people, as well as good.
Plenty of bad things do happen to people. Things were not all sunshine and roses during some of the incidents God lent a hand to my life--and a couple were about as bad as it gets. What do you say: Should God be blamed that the bad ever happened in the first place? Is God to blame for all the other terrible things that happen when there is no experience of God?
I am not talking about bad things versus good things that happen in life. I am speaking about the actual presence of God that was experienced--some in very bad times; others in good.
Should god be blamed for all the bad? Well, if we are talking about a god that created everything, that is all-knowing and all-powerful, and a god that is given credit for all the good things that happen, yes.
You, and many others, say they have felt the presence of god. I always wonder, though, how do you know that is what you felt or experienced? How do you know what being in the presence of god (by whatever definition you believe in god) is like? And what about those who will claim to have been in the presence of demons, or the devil, or evil? Could that not also be the presence of god?
Good or bad or indifferent or nonexistent god, I don't think it's likely humanity will be around for the universe to reach a state of entropy.
Spare_change
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There is a God and no one can prove differently.
harmonica
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in common sense and a court of law/etc you have to prove your claims
please prove there is a god
Spare_change
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Of course, we can prove differently ---- we have people who have talked to God, who have seen God --- can the non-believers claim otherwise?
Spare_change
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Hey! You're the one who claimed there WASN'T a God ---- prove it.
harmonica
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hahahahahahah-real brilliant
no---no one could claim there is no god BEFORE someone says there is!!
you made the claim iniitially
Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
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Should god be blamed for all the bad? Well, if we are talking about a god that created everything, that is all-knowing and all-powerful, and a god that is given credit for all the good things that happen, yes.
Are you comfortable then with the Muslim philosophy that nothing ever happens except the will of God. If you lift your finger, it is God's will that you lifted it exactly then. If you murder someone, also God's will, because had it not been the will of God, it would not have happened. If you are starving, God's will. If you are being a glutton, God's will. Is this your perception of God?
People can recognize when they are in the presence of a family member or friend or someone famous. How do they do that? How do people know whether they were dreaming or daydreaming? God is just as recognizable.
Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
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Incorrect. Correct.
Spare_change
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stupid is as stupid does ----
How to Know if God Is Real
‘God stories’ of divine intervention
Are You There God?: 5 Ways to Prove God Exists - LifeTeen.com for Catholic Youth
http://www.iep.utm.edu/design/
You wanted proof of God's existence? There it is ....
Need more?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/biocentrism/201112/does-the-soul-exist-evidence-says-yes
https://answersingenesis.org/is-god-real/how-do-we-know-there-is-a-god/
http://www.catholic.org/news/technology/story.php?id=69335
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2004/mar/08/highereducation.uk1
http://thoughts-about-god.com/questions/mh-god-exists.html
Since you claim you can't prove that something doesn't exist, your only choice is to invalidate the proof that He DOES exist. Then, and only then, can we claim a stalemate.
harmonica
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the wrong diagnosis stuff is ridiculous---that's exactly what it is --an error by a doctor--NOT divine intervention
humans are far from perfect --so are doctors
this is NOT proof --not even close
harmonica
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Montrovant
Fuzzy bears!
Should god be blamed for all the bad? Well, if we are talking about a god that created everything, that is all-knowing and all-powerful, and a god that is given credit for all the good things that happen, yes.
Are you comfortable then with the Muslim philosophy that nothing ever happens except the will of God. If you lift your finger, it is God's will that you lifted it exactly then. If you murder someone, also God's will, because had it not been the will of God, it would not have happened. If you are starving, God's will. If you are being a glutton, God's will. Is this your perception of God?
People can recognize when they are in the presence of a family member or friend or someone famous. How do they do that? How do people know whether they were dreaming or daydreaming? God is just as recognizable.
Do you see god? Can you hear god? Can you touch god? Or is being in the presence of god a feeling not associated with your physical senses?
If you are saying you can observe god as a physical presence, the way you would with a person, please, take a picture for us.
If, on the other hand, you get a feeling and ascribe that to god, how do you know that the feeling is from god? Where do you get your baseline of what it feels like to be in god's presence?
I can point to a family member and say, "Look, that is my family member. When they come around again, you can recognize them." With a feeling, however, you don't get that. Instead, you have this feeling, you decide that it is the presence of god, then when you experience the same feeling, you consider it to be god again. The question is how you know, the first time, that what you are experiencing is the presence of god?
You can get into further specifics, and ask how you know what you experience is the presence of god as you define god? For instance, how do you know you are not experiencing the presence of a Hindu god? The presence of Odin? The presence of some being not believed in by humanity? Even if one accepts that the feeling is actually the presence of some intelligence, how do you know what form that intelligence takes?
Montrovant
Fuzzy bears!
Let's go to the 5 ways to prove god exists.
Basically, the reasons are that since things need to have other forces act upon them, there must be a first force to get it all started. That, of course, leads to the argument that god itself must have had a force act upon it, otherwise all things do not need to have forces act upon them, and the argument is bunk. In other words, if all things need an outside force to act upon them for motion to exist, then god would need an outside force in order to be able to move, as well. If all things that exist must have been caused to exist, then if god exists, god must have been caused to exist.
The progression argument is asinine. It actually says "fire is the maximum of heat," which makes no sense. And if there must be a maximum of all things, that includes god, so that puts the idea of an all-knowing, all-powerful, eternal god right out the window.
As to the design argument, the existence of order does not require design.
If the arguments on the other sites are close to as weak as the ones from the 5 ways to prove god exists site, there isn't much need to invalidate.
However, trying to prove or disprove god is pretty much a fool's errand IMO. Most of the time, god isn't even well-defined, making any attempt to prove or disprove fairly pointless.
Spare_change
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Let me see ... we have written proof ... we have documented evidence ... we have expert testimony.
What's NOT proof?
THIS is what you offer to refute 9 articles proving you wrong? THIS is it?
C'mon - you can do better than this .... uhh .. you can, right??
Oh ... well, never mind, then.
We have creation itself.
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