If the US Government suspended all civil liberties...

[Derideo_Te]

Which is YOUR problem only. The modern world doesn't need evolutionary throwbacks like you spreading your hatred where it isn't wanted or needed.

If all us neanderthals disappear you're gonna find out very quickly that your utopia doesn't work.

I am willing to take that risk. Here, let me get the door for you.

 

[Anathema]

I am willing to take that risk. Here, let me get the door for you.

Find me a place that meets my basic requirements and you won't be able to get to the door fast enough to hold it for me.

 

[SwimExpert]

The Universe has no "morality law".

All "morality" derives from society. There is no other source of morality.

Actually, morality derives from the individual.

Society comprises of individuals who need to cooperate in order to survive. Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society.

No, sorry, you're quite wrong here. Morality is an individual's phenomenon. Regardless of what the goal or purpose (or lack thereof) may be of having a moral code, it is remains something that originates from individuals, not society. Ethics is society's attempt to establish rules for behavior. Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior.

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

 

[Derideo_Te]

The Universe has no "morality law".

All "morality" derives from society. There is no other source of morality.

Actually, morality derives from the individual.

Society comprises of individuals who need to cooperate in order to survive. Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society.

No, sorry, you're quite wrong here. Morality is an individual's phenomenon. Regardless of what the goal or purpose (or lack thereof) may be of having a moral code, it is remains something that originates from individuals, not society. Ethics is society's attempt to establish rules for behavior. Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior.

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

You are arguing semantics against yourself!

Ethics Define Ethics at Dictionary.com

ethics

noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
(used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
(used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Morality Define Morality at Dictionary.com

morality

noun, plural moralities for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept,discourse, or utterance.
6.
morality play.

 

[FA_Q2]

Very simple here folks..... Most of us realize there is a far higher Law than anything humanity can come up with. Personally I refer to it as Universal Morality but it goes by any number of names

The Universe has no "morality law".

All "morality" derives from society. There is no other source of morality.

This is false.

There are biological sources of morality as well as societal. Though society has the strongest influence over morality, there are certainly some biological motivators and influences as well.

 

[FA_Q2]

Actually, morality derives from the individual.

Society comprises of individuals who need to cooperate in order to survive. Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society.

No, sorry, you're quite wrong here. Morality is an individual's phenomenon. Regardless of what the goal or purpose (or lack thereof) may be of having a moral code, it is remains something that originates from individuals, not society. Ethics is society's attempt to establish rules for behavior. Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior.

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

You are arguing semantics against yourself!

Ethics Define Ethics at Dictionary.com

ethics

noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
(used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
(used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Morality Define Morality at Dictionary.com

morality

noun, plural moralities for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept,discourse, or utterance.
6.
morality play.

I don’t see how those definitions support your supposition.

Society is all over the ethics definition and completely absent the morality one.

 

[SwimExpert]

Actually, morality derives from the individual.

Society comprises of individuals who need to cooperate in order to survive. Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society.

No, sorry, you're quite wrong here. Morality is an individual's phenomenon. Regardless of what the goal or purpose (or lack thereof) may be of having a moral code, it is remains something that originates from individuals, not society. Ethics is society's attempt to establish rules for behavior. Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior.

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

You are arguing semantics against yourself!

Ethics Define Ethics at Dictionary.com

ethics

noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
(used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
(used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Morality Define Morality at Dictionary.com

morality

noun, plural moralities for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept,discourse, or utterance.
6.
morality play.

*yawn*

If the extent of your understanding of ethics and morality comes from dictonary.com, then you really need to get an education.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Society comprises of individuals who need to cooperate in order to survive. Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society.

No, sorry, you're quite wrong here. Morality is an individual's phenomenon. Regardless of what the goal or purpose (or lack thereof) may be of having a moral code, it is remains something that originates from individuals, not society. Ethics is society's attempt to establish rules for behavior. Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior.

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

You are arguing semantics against yourself!

Ethics Define Ethics at Dictionary.com

ethics

noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
(used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
(used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Morality Define Morality at Dictionary.com

morality

noun, plural moralities for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept,discourse, or utterance.
6.
morality play.

I don’t see how those definitions support your supposition.

Society is all over the ethics definition and completely absent the morality one.

Try reading ethics definitions #3 and #4 that refer to the individual.

Conforming to rules of conduct imposed by who, if not society, when it comes to morality?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Society comprises of individuals who need to cooperate in order to survive. Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society.

No, sorry, you're quite wrong here. Morality is an individual's phenomenon. Regardless of what the goal or purpose (or lack thereof) may be of having a moral code, it is remains something that originates from individuals, not society. Ethics is society's attempt to establish rules for behavior. Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior.

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

You are arguing semantics against yourself!

Ethics Define Ethics at Dictionary.com

ethics

noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
(used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
(used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Morality Define Morality at Dictionary.com

morality

noun, plural moralities for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept,discourse, or utterance.
6.
morality play.

*yawn*

If the extent of your understanding of ethics and morality comes from dictonary.com, then you really need to get an education.

Thank you for tacitly admitting that you cannot support your own position when faced with the authority of universally accepted dictionary definitions.

 

[FA_Q2]

No, sorry, you're quite wrong here. Morality is an individual's phenomenon. Regardless of what the goal or purpose (or lack thereof) may be of having a moral code, it is remains something that originates from individuals, not society. Ethics is society's attempt to establish rules for behavior. Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior.

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

You are arguing semantics against yourself!

Ethics Define Ethics at Dictionary.com

ethics

noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
(used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
(used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Morality Define Morality at Dictionary.com

morality

noun, plural moralities for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept,discourse, or utterance.
6.
morality play.

I don’t see how those definitions support your supposition.

Society is all over the ethics definition and completely absent the morality one.

Try reading ethics definitions #3 and #4 that refer to the individual.

Conforming to rules of conduct imposed by who, if not society, when it comes to morality?

4 is not singular.

3 is the only one that refers to a single person and mentions morals. It frames ethics as a set of morals. Making them synonyms though requires that you ignore the other definitions and simply cherry pick the one that fits your supposition.

It really does not matter anyway – that is a discussion of semantics and I think that morality more than covers what you are talking about.

 

[Sonny Clark]

We the People chose instead to live our lives free from the specious "laws" of all religions and to grant ourselves inalienable rights that no religion has ever granted.

We do follow moral laws that are definitely associated with,and connected to, religion and religious beliefs. These are not government enacted laws, rather they're laws that govern moral conduct accepted by a civil and humane society and people.

 

[whitehall]

The Founding Fathers were well aware of the evils of big government so they created the first ten amendments to the Constitution aka the Bill of Rights which were intended as a curb on government power. The fact that an American could compare the power over life and death inherent in the federal government to religious beliefs guaranteed by the Constitution is an example of the faulty and intentionally ignorant left wing education system created by big government democrats.

 

[Dragonlady]

Very simple here folks..... Most of us realize there is a far higher Law than anything humanity can come up with. Personally I refer to it as Universal Morality but it goes by any number of names

All religious "laws" were written by men, men who were "inspired by God" or Buddah, or whoever their ultimate being may have been, but not by God him/herself. People would do well to remember this point, because the men who wrote the scriptures were not perfect beings and their prejudices and ideas, as well as the times they lived in, are reflected in the scriptures they wrote.

I do think that, at its best, the Bible (the only one of the "inspired by God" books I've read, cover to cover), provides us with a set of rules that will improve our llives and lead us to be better people. But there is a lot of crap in the Bible too. It doesn't come out against slavery, and it can be used to justify murder (an eye for an eye), incest, war, and misogyny, so I think we have to choose wisely what we choose to follow in the scriptures.

For example, using the Bible to justify prejudice against gays, is really a stretch. If you are going to discriminate against other sinners, i.e. liars, thieves, adulterers, then you may have a point, but to single out one class of sinner and say "No, I won't serve you on religious grounds", rings false. Of course if you were to refuse to serve sinners, you wouldn't have any customers at all.

 

[Derideo_Te]

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

You are arguing semantics against yourself!

Ethics Define Ethics at Dictionary.com

ethics

noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
(used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
(used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Morality Define Morality at Dictionary.com

morality

noun, plural moralities for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept,discourse, or utterance.
6.
morality play.

I don’t see how those definitions support your supposition.

Society is all over the ethics definition and completely absent the morality one.

Try reading ethics definitions #3 and #4 that refer to the individual.

Conforming to rules of conduct imposed by who, if not society, when it comes to morality?

4 is not singular.

3 is the only one that refers to a single person and mentions morals. It frames ethics as a set of morals. Making them synonyms though requires that you ignore the other definitions and simply cherry pick the one that fits your supposition.

It really does not matter anyway – that is a discussion of semantics and I think that morality more than covers what you are talking about.

I stated that it was a matter of semantics back in post #44 so now you are agreeing with me and your argument is with SE who is the one doing the actual cherry picking.

 

[Derideo_Te]

We the People chose instead to live our lives free from the specious "laws" of all religions and to grant ourselves inalienable rights that no religion has ever granted.

We do follow moral laws that are definitely associated with,and connected to, religion and religious beliefs. These are not government enacted laws, rather they're laws that govern moral conduct accepted by a civil and humane society and people.

And yet we constantly see conservatives legislating morality when it comes to abortion and homosexuality.

 

[Sonny Clark]

We the People chose instead to live our lives free from the specious "laws" of all religions and to grant ourselves inalienable rights that no religion has ever granted.

We do follow moral laws that are definitely associated with,and connected to, religion and religious beliefs. These are not government enacted laws, rather they're laws that govern moral conduct accepted by a civil and humane society and people.

And yet we constantly see conservatives legislating morality when it comes to abortion and homosexuality.

Those issues should NEVER come up in state or federal legislation debates. Those issues are basically personal in nature and will be practiced whether our government, or any government, likes it or not. You can not legislate the bedroom or a woman's body. Regardless of any laws enacted by our government, sexual preferences and abortions will remain, and practiced by those wishing to exercise their personal choices.

 

[SwimExpert]

No, sorry, you're quite wrong here. Morality is an individual's phenomenon. Regardless of what the goal or purpose (or lack thereof) may be of having a moral code, it is remains something that originates from individuals, not society. Ethics is society's attempt to establish rules for behavior. Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior.

How can I be wrong when you just agreed with me?

DT: "Morality is defining the limits of what is and isn't acceptable behavior for the individuals within that society"

SE: "Morality is the individual's attempt to establish rules for behavior"

I did not agree with you, not in the slightest. Morality comes from the individual. You keep trying to say that it comes from society. You are incorrect. What comes from society is ethics. Morality comes from the individual. For example:

I believe abortion is wrong and therefore I will not have an abortion.
That is a matter of morals.

I believe that abortion under medical guidance is a right and the government should not make laws that impede decisions between a woman and her doctor.
That is a matter of ethics.

You are arguing semantics against yourself!

Ethics Define Ethics at Dictionary.com

ethics

noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
(used with a plural verb) the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
(used with a plural verb) moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Morality Define Morality at Dictionary.com

morality

noun, plural moralities for 4–6.
1.
conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2.
moral quality or character.
3.
virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4.
a doctrine or system of morals.
5.
moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept,discourse, or utterance.
6.
morality play.

*yawn*

If the extent of your understanding of ethics and morality comes from dictonary.com, then you really need to get an education.

Thank you for tacitly admitting that you cannot support your own position when faced with the authority of universally accepted dictionary definitions.

Wow! Wow! ******* wow!

Universally accepted dictionary definitions!?! Oh my god, stop the presses everyone! We got a universally accepted dictionary definition here!

Scholars and philosophers have been discussing the nature of ethics and morality for thousands of years. But we got a universally accepted dictionary over here! Dictionary.com has got it figured out and boiled down. Some smart sons of bitches, them dictionary.com folk.

Like I said, you need an education. You seriously think that dictionary.com is some kind of authority on the matter? Now, if you had invoked Immanuel Kant, Socrates, Schopenhauer, Spinoza, I might have bothered to listen to you. But no, you invoke dictonary.com! Just like the ignorant, uneducated, slob that you are.

This has become silly. It was a simple point, and you couldn't even absorb it because you're too ignorant to even grasp it in the first place. So I'm going to back up and give you some background schooling that I was mistaken to believe you would have already understood.....

There is a difference between what a person believes on their own accord is "right or wrong" and what society tells that person is "right or wrong." Society sets rules for people to follow. But even absent (or sometimes in spite of) those rules, people still follow their own rules. Ethics is an external system of right and wrong; morals is an internal system or right and wrong.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Amusing meltdown on your part but utterly irrelevant!

There is a difference between what a person believes on their own accord is "right or wrong" and what society tells that person is "right or wrong." Society sets rules for people to follow.

No one is arguing any different, except perhaps you!

But even absent (or sometimes in spite of) those rules, people still follow their own rules.

People are free to do so and then deal with the consequences of their own behavior.

Ethics is an external system of right and wrong; morals is an internal system or right and wrong.

Assumes facts NOT in evidence.

The dictionary proved that there is no such arbitrary distinction that you are fallaciously trying to impose.

An individual can have both ethics and morals.

Society can choose how it wants to handle both ethical and moral behaviors as it sees fit.

Which of those scholars and philosophers made the absolute distinction that you are trying to make here regarding "internal vs external".

Onus is on YOU to prove that everyone else is wrong and only YOU are "right" about your arbitrary distinction.

 

[Anathema]

All religious "laws" were written by men, men who were "inspired by God" or Buddah, or whoever their ultimate being may have been, but not by God him/herself. People would do well to remember this point, because the men who wrote the scriptures were not perfect beings and their prejudices and ideas, as well as the times they lived in, are reflected in the scriptures they wrote.

I do think that, at its best, the Bible (the only one of the "inspired by God" books I've read, cover to cover), provides us with a set of rules that will improve our llives and lead us to be better people. But there is a lot of crap in the Bible too. It doesn't come out against slavery, and it can be used to justify murder (an eye for an eye), incest, war, and misogyny, so I think we have to choose wisely what we choose to follow in the scriptures.

For example, using the Bible to justify prejudice against gays, is really a stretch. If you are going to discriminate against other sinners, i.e. liars, thieves, adulterers, then you may have a point, but to single out one class of sinner and say "No, I won't serve you on religious grounds", rings false. Of course if you were to refuse to serve sinners, you wouldn't have any customers at all.

You make the common mistake of believing that I'm talking about religion or religious texts/rules. I have no use for organized religion in any form.

I believe that each individual Soul gas an innate connection to the Divine. If you do not know Right and Wrong from the I SIZE and need to be taught it from the OUTSIDE; you're already in trouble.

 

[RandallFlagg]

If the US government suspended all civil liberties, imposed martial law, and began arresting people for expressing dissent, seizing their guns, abandoning due process, people'd go completely spare yes?

But when a religion's rules say the very same things, somehow that's okay. Ever wonder why? Ever ask yourself why when the government proposes doing soemthing religion's brought up in support of it, or in opposition against it. Yet that very same religion has pleanty of rules proposing far more draconian things yet magically that's ok with people whereas if a government tried half-assed versions of what religions say people scream bloody murder.

God's Laws (scroll through them and ask yourself if you'd be ok living under every one of them)

Judaism 101 A List of the 613 Mitzvot Commandments

We get it Sonny. You want to abolish religion. How very "Communist" of you.....